Attaching a JRB Quilt To A Speer-Type Hammock?

[Just Jeff]

No, but it's loose enough that it probably gets a tiny bit of circulation. Especially since the top of the hammock is open. Also, most any pad you lie on is not breathable either and you'll be laying more directly on the pad allowing for more of a chance for condensation.

True. I have a bad time with condensation on almost every pad I've used...ThermaRest and a few different types of CCF. The only pad I've found so far that doesn't make me sweat is the Exped Downmat.

Plenty of folks are fine with non-breathable insulation. Other folks don't like it. Every now and then you'll read a report of someone waking up in the SS with a puddle under their backside. What works for one person may not work so well for another.

I'm not bashing the SS...I've seen them but haven't actually slept in one. I'm just saying it's good for some people in some conditions. Given my bias towards breathable insulation, I don't think it'll work out for me. But if one happened to show up in my mailbox I'd be happy to give it a shot!

[Coffee]

Jeff thanks for posting about attaching your nest to the ridgeline on your DIY hammock. I tried that today and it made a huge difference. I think that should get me close to 30 F or less instead of 40 F that I had before.

[BillyBob58]

I am also not sold on the HH SS. I can make it down to 30-ish with a 1/2 inch ccp. To say that you added a pad with the standard SS setup makes me a little concerned with it. I just don't think the pad it comes with is thick enough to get any real use out of it.

As you guys already know, I have used the Super Shelter for one week in the field in Wyoming, and have been running various experiments here at home to see how far I can push it.

And though I'm sure everything varies with the individual, my experience in Wyoming shows me that I can do quite well in the basic Super Shelter and a North face cats meow endurance bag use as a blanket, into the upper 30s and low 40s without adding anything else. Though I was cold the first night at 23°, I have since realized that was primarily from user error (first night in a hammock plus first night with Super Shelter, exhausted and underfed due to altitude sickness/no appetite etc.). Which is not at all to say that I would have been warm in the most basic Super Shelter at 23° had I been in prime condition and made no user error. But then again, I almost surely would not have been nearly as cold, and might have even been just barely okay. I am truly amazed at how much warmth that thin pad and space blanket, within the undercover( no overcover used so far) can provide. However, I believe the pad that was sold to me this September is wider and thicker than the original pads that came with the Super Shelter.

I have since added the torso/kidney pads, which are very inexpensive, light weight and low bulk, and add significant warmth. I think they are essential. With practice, I have also become aware of what might be the systems best attribute, the flexibility to soup it up, often with what you already have with you anyway. Such things as very lightweight and very low bulk Garlington insulators. Or simply adding jackets or long underwear or what ever is really light weight either on top of the pad, or underneath the pad in the undercover -- although this latter takes a little practice to learn how to do this without the undercover pulling away and leaving gaps. And absolutely perfect for this is my down vest, which is so light weight it does not pull the cover away at all, and yet provides three or 4 inches of down underneath the pad. Also perfect are the Garlington insulators, but those do require carrying a little bit extra. And of course a Speer SPE and pad can, I'm convinced, push this system way on down there. Since I'm always gonna have a thin pad with me anyway, this could be added only on the most extreme cold nights, allowing sleeping without a pad most nights. Unless of course every night of the trip would be extremely cold. Oh also, I have never experienced any condensation problems whatsoever (so far) either in the field or in the backyard at 18 to 30°.

But the experiments are ongoing, and I believe we have another cold blast coming up in a couple of days. I hope to try once again to see how far I can push this system under a optimal backyard conditions. This Super Shelter looks very unimpressive, agreed. But I think it's got more going for it than it looks like.

It's been fascinating to me to see how many ways there are to overcome this "cold hammock bottom" problem, other than just stuffing a thick wide pad in there -- although that simple approach will work also, especially with an SPE.

[BillyBob58]

......... It's only about 1/4" open cell foam. It does give you a little wrap around insulation for the sides where you're not compressing it much.

According to Hennessy, the current pads are 5/8". 29 inches wide for the backpacker and 36 inches wide for the Explorer. Though I believe I measured my pad at 35 inches. Much harder to measure the thickness of open cell foam, but the peak of the "egg crate" appears to be at least 1/2". But a question I have always had is: does open cell foam, assuming it is a uncompressed as in the Super Shelter, have the same insulating value as closed cell foam of the same thickness?

[Just Jeff]

does open cell foam, assuming it is a uncompressed as in the Super Shelter, have the same insulating value as closed cell foam of the same thickness?

No. There are some R-value tables on the Speer SPE page...I think OCF is on there. If not, search around...I remember seeing it somewhere.

[BillyBob58]

True. I have a bad time with condensation on almost every pad I've used...ThermaRest and a few different types of CCF. The only pad I've found so far that doesn't make me sweat is the Exped Downmat.

Plenty of folks are fine with non-breathable insulation. Other folks don't like it. Every now and then you'll read a report of someone waking up in the SS with a puddle under their backside. What works for one person may not work so well for another.

I'm not bashing the SS...I've seen them but haven't actually slept in one. I'm just saying it's good for some people in some conditions. Given my bias towards breathable insulation, I don't think it'll work out for me. But if one happened to show up in my mailbox I'd be happy to give it a shot!

I'm thinking the open cell foam pad on the Hennessy is breathable, unless of course you put a space blanket on top of it. It sure looks breathable. Of course the undercover is not breathable, but that hangs down several inches below you and is not in contact with you. I guess the space blanket is in contact with the bottom side (outside) of the hammock, but for whatever reason I have never had any condensation issues, other than my breath condensing above me when it's really cold. Going by my experience, I'm surprised to hear some people had been waking up in a puddle of sweat in the Super Shelter. But, people do differ. I guess you're right, it must be an individual thing.

PS: Yep, I just checked the HH pad. I was able to breath and exhale right thru it. It's pretty wide open. Of course, the space blanket makes that irrelevent.

[blackbishop351]

According to Hennessy, the current pads are 5/8". 29 inches wide for the backpacker and 36 inches wide for the Explorer. Though I believe I measured my pad at 35 inches. Much harder to measure the thickness of open cell foam, but the peak of the "egg crate" appears to be at least 1/2". But a question I have always had is: does open cell foam, assuming it is a uncompressed as in the Super Shelter, have the same insulating value as closed cell foam of the same thickness?

I think it can vary a lot. I used to work in a factory that made foam, and there were TONS of subcategories of CCF and OCF both. Without compression, I would think the R-values would be comparable, with the CCF coming out slightly ahead. WITH compression, the CCF is obviously going to win. But like I said, there's a lot of shades of grey there - for instance, some "OCF" actually has many closed cells, sometimes even most of them.

The egg crate design on the SS pad is one reason I'm a little skeptical. As far as I know, the egg crate idea is something that's added for comfort against a hard surface, not insulation.

Some people claim that you can't count on the full thickness of an egg crate pad while in a hammock, because of breatheability. With a windblock underneath though, I think they still do pretty well. My Z-rest (egg crate) has performed well in my homemade hammock, and I think that's because the ripstop I use for my hammock bodies is pretty wind resistant. It doesn't do well at all in my HH.

So anyway - I'm not sure why Hennessy uses the egg crate for their underpad. You don't need the added comfort (that's why the Z-rest has it), so it seems like a waste of material and weight. JMO.

[slowhike]

I'm thinking the open cell foam pad on the Hennessy is breathable, unless of course you put a space blanket on top of it. It sure looks breathable. Of course the undercover is not breathable, but that hangs down several inches below you and is not in contact with you. I guess the space blanket is in contact with the bottom side (outside) of the hammock, but for whatever reason I have never had any condensation issues, other than my breath condensing above me when it's really cold. Going by my experience, I'm surprised to hear some people had been waking up in a puddle of sweat in the Super Shelter. But, people do differ. I guess you're right, it must be an individual thing.

PS: Yep, I just checked the HH pad. I was able to breath and exhale right thru it. It's pretty wide open. Of course, the space blanket makes that irrelevent.

that's one thing to be cautious about w/ that set-up... the OCF is breathable & will also soak up water like a sponge. so you'll need to be sure & guard it from getting wet from rain, condensation, or whatever.

[Just Jeff]

The OCF is breathable...but where does that moisture end up after it "breathes" through the OCF? It condenses on the silnylon...so the system isn't breathable.

But OCF works well when wet, too. Better than down, at least, and probably better than most synthetics, too.

[Coffee]

Glad to see that the SS works for you. Just goes to show how everyone is a little different. In the end whatever works for you is the best system.

One thing that I noticed is that I really need something that will warm me up. In the field I usually wait to long to get in, so I am chilled to start with. I think that a system that was on the edge for working for me at home, would cause me problems in the field. Just what works for me.