Breathability Discussion

[Peter_pan]

edited by angrysparrow - I split this discussion from the Cuben Fiber thread. This discussion is good, but shouldn't hijack the topic.

cuben doesn't breathe,period. However neither does a closed cell pad. and we all use them. I have spent several nights in my cuben Ham. it is fine. The tarp of mine is all taped, and holds up well, for tie outs I use a piece of gorilla tape. the cuben is sandwitched between a single piece doubled back on it self, I then put about 3 stainless ordinary staples to hold (in shear tape is very strong not so strong in peel) cheaper from the manufacturer! my H is abour .44 oz/ yd I believe, stronger than 1.5 or so syl

Gnome, et al,

The prevailing wisdom is that a hammock should be breathable.

Your statemant that we all use closed cell pads is far from accurate...In fact, between Speer pea pods, snug fits, home made UQs and 1/2 UQs, Garlington type taco tubes, Dams, Dam clones, JRB WS and JRB Under Quilts (numbering in the thousands) the majority of folks probably do not use pads. Certainly those who consider themselves back sweaters have moved on from pads.

YMMV... Glad it works for you...

Pan

[Youngblood]

I don't know about this 'prevailing wisdom' but I do know that you would like your hammock to be breathable (or at least as breathable as possible with the insulation you are using) when you are overheating and dealing with sweat, or sensible perspiration. On the other hand, I also know that you would like you hammock to not be breathable when you are dealing with trying to stay warm and are only dealing with insensible perspiration-- if you know how to deal with it.

It is not a situation where one case is always the best choice. Wise hammockers that use a breathable hammock with breathable under side insultaion (underquilts, pea pods, etc) often add a vapor barrier between the hammock and the underside insulation to extend the low temperature range. It is like whether to use a tarp that allows air flow or one that closes off and blocks the wind. A nice cool breeze is one thing, a blast of frigid air is something else. Just like a net hammock wouldn't be a wise choice when snow camping, a non-breathable hammock wouldn't be a wise choice when camping in 85F weather. Those are extremes and in the middle range where we typically are, there are shades of gray, so to speak. You will run it to situations where one might be preferred over the other and situations where there isn't that much difference. I wish I could snap my fingers and make my hammock switch back-and-forth between being very breathable to being non-breathable. While I am wishing, it would be nice if I could wave my hand and adjust how my tarp is pitched as well.

[Darby]

... While I am wishing, it would be nice if I could wave my hand and adjust how my tarp is pitched as well.

All you need is some good old fairy dust.

[slowhike]

I sleep on a non breathable, insulated air mat year round. It's just as nonbreathable as a ccf pad.
Having a layer of fabric between me & the air mat helps take care of dispersing perspiration.

[Peter_pan]

I sleep on a non breathable, insulated air mat year round. It's just as nonbreathable as a ccf pad.
Having a layer of fabric between me & the air mat helps take care of dispersing perspiration.

Slowhike, et al,

A Dam style infatable has tubes which form valleys which, as others have noted seem to help disapate the sweat/nonsensible sweat issues... Thus while it is a non breathavle material it has some vent like breathability....Yours is a tube type, right?

Pan

[slowhike]

Slowhike, et al,

A Dam style infatable has tubes which form valleys which, as others have noted seem to help disapate the sweat/nonsensible sweat issues... Thus while it is a non breathavle material it has some vent like breathability....Yours is a tube type, right?

Pan

Yep, that's correct. But I did use a ccf pad for a while before discovering the insulated inflatables.
I don't remember having any major sweating issues w/ the ccf pads but then I used thoughtfulness in how I adjusted everything for a comfortable sleeping temperature... adding & taking away as I needed.

The insulated inflatables are just more comfortable (though they require some effort to inflate), but if temps are likely to be very cold (say down into the 30s) I like to use an under quilt also.
I could get away w/o the under quilt sometimes, but it's just so NICE & WARM<G>.

[Youngblood]

Slowhike, et al,

A Dam style infatable has tubes which form valleys which, as others have noted seem to help disapate the sweat/nonsensible sweat issues... Thus while it is a non breathavle material it has some vent like breathability....Yours is a tube type, right?

Pan

The tubes in DAMs are due to the internal baffles that help it keep its shape. Those valleys disappear under you body when you lay on the DAM and it compresses some. If they didn't compress the DAM would be hard and not very comfortable; also any vents caused by valleys would circumvent the conductive insulation the DAMs provide and they wouldn't keep you very warm. DAMs provide a lot of insulation.

I have known people that don't use them in moderate conditions in hammocks because they overheat and sweat when they use them in moderate conditions. In moderate conditions they may switch to uninsulated air mats or insulated air mats that aren't as warm as their DAM and are more comfortable in moderate conditions.

[BillyBob58]

....... A nice cool breeze is one thing, a blast of frigid air is something else. Just like a net hammock wouldn't be a wise choice when snow camping, a non-breathable hammock wouldn't be a wise choice when camping in 85F weather. Those are extremes and in the middle range where we typically are, there are shades of gray, so to speak. You will run it to situations where one might be preferred over the other and situations where there isn't that much difference. I wish I could snap my fingers and make my hammock switch back-and-forth between being very breathable to being non-breathable. While I am wishing, it would be nice if I could wave my hand and adjust how my tarp is pitched as well.

In a way, at least with some set ups, you can just snap your fingers, almost. Just add the space blanket or heat sheet etc, which is not terribly inconvenient. Though admittedly not as convenient as snapping your fingers while already laying in your hammock! Whoever invents that will have a lot of business, I bet.

I have a No net Claytor ( breathable) and a CJH, waterproof bottom as far as I know. Both of course double bottom. I had anticipated that, especially in summer, the CJH would be uncomfortable due to the waterproof bottom. Though I think the No Net indeed feels a little bit cooler, more noticeable in the daytime, it really hasn't been a problem. But I have not had wet back issues when sleeping in the JH with temps in the low 70s most of the night heading for lows in the high 60s. I do get an impression of "stickiness" or something different, but I can never tell that my cotton tee shirt is damp at all. I would rather use my No Net at these temps, but I need the net on the JH.

Has any one else here had sweaty back syndrome using the Claytor Jungle Hammock(with out pad) in the summer time?

[Youngblood]

Has any one else here had sweaty back syndrome using the Claytor Jungle Hammock in the summer time?

Bill,

I am sure someone will. I can be sweating or nearly sweating in a single-layer breathable hammock at a particular temperature, move to a net hammock (think strings) and not sweat. You just have to pick the right temperature for that to happen. We did that at the Hot Springs campout last June when it was toasty outside. I have done basically the same thing with a single-layer breathable hammock versus a double-layer breathable hammock, although that isn't as pronounced. At a certain temperature you can be uncomfortably warm in one while comfortable in another. There is a shift in how warm or how cool they are just as it is with different shirts or jackets.

[BillyBob58]

Bill,

I am sure someone will. I can be sweating or nearly sweating in a single-layer breathable hammock at a particular temperature, move to a net hammock (think strings) and not sweat. .........

Yes, I should have been more specific in my question. For sure, if it is warm enough ( and for me, and using a bug net, mid to high 70s will be hot enough) to sweat in general, I am most likely am for sure going to sweat on my back with a CJH and it's WP bottom. I guess what I am trying to find out is if the WP bottom of the JH is significantly more of a problem for causing back sweat than a breathable hammock. Say at temps below 75 at night. So far, I have not noticed much of a dif ( though maybe a little), which kind of surprises me.
Bill