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  1. #1
    Senior Member Morgoroth's Avatar
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    Advantages of a Continuous Loop

    Ok Continuous Loops are cool.
    I have to get that out there first.
    Splicing with AmSteel appears waaaay more fun than using the old three-strand Sisal that I learned on.

    But is there another advantage?
    Splicing is generally stronger than knots, but if your putting a couple larks heads in the loop anyway, what's one more zeppelin bend?

    In short, am I really going to loose anything structurally if I put a zeppelin bend in the AmSteel instead of a Continuous Loop?

  2. #2
    Senior Member nacra533's Avatar
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    Amsteel doesn't hold knots as well as other lines. That doesn't mean it doesn't hold knots.

    A larks head doesn't significantly reduce the working load of a line for several reasons. One is the bending radius is much larger than with a normal "knot", so the line isn't putting the same shearing force on itself. The other is that it's double, so your essentially starting with nearly double the working load of the line, ie..only half of the force is seen by each "leg".

    There is no reason you couldn't / shouldn't make a loop from amsteel using a double or triple fishermans knot like you do when making a prussic loop. Just leave a little extra tail to allow the knots to shift while they are setting.

    A lot of it is just the fun / cool factor of splicing the loop and telling your camping buddies "I did that"

    I've seen a lot of folks making nacrabiners / loop shackles and trimming and burning the ends flush before they set the diamond knot on the end. When I set my knots using about 900# on 1/8" amsteel, the diamond knot moves nearly 1" from hand tight to "set".

  3. #3
    Senior Member Morgoroth's Avatar
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    Wouldn't the bite at the top of the larks head where it bends back on itself reduce the breaking strength?
    At that point it is only one pass of rope also.

    Would the fisherman's knot be better than the zeppelin because the zeppelin will slip or because of better holing capacity?

    Also, I just saw your narcabiners(sp?) and I'm probably just going to make those instead. They're pretty sweet.

    Do you have to splice the lines together before the diamond knot? Or can you just leave it open to the diamond?

  4. #4
    Senior Member oldgringo's Avatar
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    A larkshead is, in effect, a choker hitch with two legs. This table is for wire rope, but instructive, nonetheless. Notice what happens to the WLL when the angle of the hitch is less than 120 degrees. This has implications for larksheads used in hammock suspensions, and for tree straps/webbing based suspensions.

    http://www.fdlake.com/rig-slng2.html#choker

    My two Warbonnets came with continuous loops formed with double fisherman's bends. If there have been any failures, I'm unaware of them, so I'm assuming there is ample reserve for the uses to which we put closed loops. Sometimes, depending on the end use of the loop,I use a single fisherman's bend, and bury the tag ends. No failures, yet.
    Dave

    "Loneliness is the poverty of self; solitude is the richness of self."~~~May Sarton

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    The zeppelin is an unknown to me so I can't advise you there. I do frequently use a double fisherman's knot for closed loops and have had no problems.

  6. #6
    Senior Member nacra533's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr View Post
    The zeppelin is an unknown to me so I can't advise you there. I do frequently use a double fisherman's knot for closed loops and have had no problems.
    Ditto and I was too lazy to look it up.


    As far as the loop shackles
    I think there are plenty of tutorials by others on this site for ways to make them. The easiest one doesnt require splicing at all. Just leave the 2 legs alone until the diamond knot.

  7. #7
    Senior Member timabababaluka's Avatar
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    I really like the Zeppelin bend:

    http://www.animatedknots.com/zeppeli...matedknots.com

    It's a beautiful knot, fairly easy to tie, and quite reliable. That said, I don't know how it would take to amsteel. I wouldn't feel very warm and fuzzy without some kind of stopper knot just in case, and that would definitely make it more trouble than it's worth. A larkshead is pretty darned easy, time-tested, and continous loops are crazy-cool--what's not to like?
    You're gonna need a bigger hammock

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    Just great...now I have to drag the pile of Therm-a-rest mattresses out and give the Zeppelin knot a try just for the fun of it.

  9. #9
    Senior Member bindibadgi's Avatar
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    I opened this thread and 'How Many More Times' started playing on iTunes. Obviously it's a sign that the Zeppelin bend is worth a try.

    I've used it before, and it's a nice knot, but I haven't tried it in amsteel. I would think that a double fisherman's bend would hold better, but it's worth a try.
    It's bad luck to be superstitious.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Morgoroth's Avatar
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    The Zeppelin bend is also called the Rosendahl Bend.
    Some guys over here: International Guild of Knot Tyers
    Did a lot of strength testing and it out performed the fisherman's bend if I'm not mistaken.

    I don't know about it staying tied in AmSteel though, because I have never used AmSteel.... Yet......

    But, if you haven't tried the Zeppelin I highly recommend it.
    It's right up there with the Cerrick Bend in Awesomeness.

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