Sleeping Bag Question

[terlingua]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Claytor Jungle. Right now I have a Big Agnes bag and an inflatable insulated pad for sleeping. It looks like my current setup will work with a partially inflated pad, but I am concerned that the complete lack on insulation in the bottom portion of the bag may create a problem.

So, will my current setup work or do I need to look at a different sleeping setup? I realize the underquilts are available, but was hoping to avoid one since most of my camping will be in moderate weather but with a few nights in the 40's.

Thanks for the help.

[Just Jeff]

I'm missing something - a partially inflated insulated pad is not a complete lack of insulation on the bottom portion of the bag.

Or did you mean putting the pad in the pocket, leaving the bag uninsulated on bottom? In that case, try it an see. Or just don't use the Claytor's pocket and put the pad in the bag like normal.

[terlingua]

I could be over-analyzing (or under - depending on your viewpoint)....it just seems to me that the ground and the insulated air core pad work together for insulation (or at least prevention of heat loss). But, without the ground, I'm not sure how well the air core pad will perform. I see lots of discussion of using the closed cell pads and I could use one of those. Not real sure which way would be warmest.

Sorry for the elementary question. You guys are so far ahead of me I probably should get my old external frame pack and coleman stove out.

[FanaticFringer]

I could be over-analyzing (or under - depending on your viewpoint)....it just seems to me that the ground and the insulated air core pad work together for insulation (or at least prevention of heat loss). But, without the ground, I'm not sure how well the air core pad will perform. I see lots of discussion of using the closed cell pads and I could use one of those. Not real sure which way would be warmest.

Sorry for the elementary question. You guys are so far ahead of me I probably should get my old external frame pack and coleman stove out.

Yes the ground helps with warmth and hanging robs you of some of this warmth. Be that an air core or closed cell pad. Backyard testing is what I recommend. Since your in Texas that might not bee too cold anytime soon. You could get a pad(s) from Speer hammocks or Oware and cut it to size for the pocket in the Claytor.
Be sure to check out Jeff's fantastic site www.tothewoods.net/HammockCamping.html

[Hector]

With a Claytor and a Big Agnes bag and a pad, you have two basic options: Put the pad in the BA sleeve as usual, or put the pad in the Claytor sleeve and use the BA bag as a quilt. Either should work, and only you can decide which you like better. Obvious solution: try both and use the one you like best. For hammock use, I suggest a foam pad, but the inflatable pad will work. You may have to play with the inflation to get it right; in the BA you can actually adjust it while you're in the bag, so I'd start that way, then if you're unsatisfied switch to the pad in the Claytor sleeve. Make sense?

[Just Jeff]

Easy answer - I've used an inflatable insulated pad (Exped Downmat 7) down to the teens...easily comfortable to ~25F with light wind. Not sure how low the BA pad will go but it'll work. I'd definitely give it a try if you already have it. You can always add a CCF pad if you get cold...bringing along a torso-sized sit pad is a good idea for winter camping anyway.

Detailed answer - heat is transfered in 4 ways - evaporation, conduction, convection, radiation. With a pad on the ground, you transfer heat to the ground with conduction...which is slow (for our purposes), and the ground is never colder than ~30F. With a pad in the hammock, you lose more heat thru convection...the wind blowing under you. Additionally, the air is often colder than 30F. That's why an insulation system good to 0F on the ground can be good to only 30F in a hammock...but you can minimize convective heat loss with good site selection, pitching your tarp low to the ground, building a leaf bed or snow trench, etc.

[Hector]

I think his concern is that having less air in the BA air pad will lower its insulative value. This is true; a completley uninflated air pad has little insulation value. However, a partially inflated pad can retain much of its insulation value.

[slowhike]

I think I understand the question. I use a BA insulated air core in the warmer months. Personally, it begins to feel slightly cool to lay on in the low 50s & upper 40s(F).

And I use mine partly inflated too, because it just feels that much more comfortable to me that way. But I also realize that as under inflated as I use it, my but or hip, & shoulder is touching or nearly touching the hammock.
So the insulation inside the mat is being pressed flat at those points.

Around 50 & above, that doesn't usually seam to be much of a problem, but if it's much colder than that, hopefully I have the 3/4 ccf pad that can be used between the BA mat & the hammock (& the cool air).
Or sometimes I may be using the BA mat along w/ an under quilt.

But in colder times I just take the Exped Down Air Mat (DAM).

Some people seam to do well w/ the BA insulated air core in much cooler temps than me, but if you carry a 3/4 length ccf pad, that would give you a little wider comfort range.
Like was said before, testing in less remote locations as the weather starts to cool down would be a good way to see what works best for you.

[terlingua]

Thanks for the answers. I don't actually do much camping/hiking in Texas unless it is Big Bend or Guadalupe. Most of mine will be in the Colorado/New Mexico mountains and other western states.

I realize some experimentation will be necessary. Its tough to mimic the temps I might experience in the mountains in my backyard (in Texas). Based on the premise of how the Big Agnes system works I would think it will require the use of the Air Core mattress to be effective (since there in no insulation on the bottom of the bag). I suspect that I will be using my existing BA system until the temp gets below ???(to be determined later) and then I will return to the ground. The 3/4 length pad by itself probably works much better with a fully insulated bag than with just a top insulated bag. Underquilts are not in my immediate future.

[Hector]

> Based on the premise of how the Big Agnes system works I would
> think it will require the use of the Air Core mattress to be effective

You need a pad, yes, but not necessarily an air core (you mean INSULATED air core, right?). A CCF foam pad, like the cheap blue Wal-Mart version, will work just fine.

> The 3/4 length pad by itself probably works much better
> with a fully insulated bag than with just a top insulated bag

I wouldn't think it would make an appreciable difference. Either way, you use extra gear -- I'd use my backpack which has a padded back panel and my sit pad, for example -- to make up for the missing portion of the pad.