Trees past their time

[DemostiX]

We hope we identify dead limbs that may be "widower makers." I wonder, after this story
how common trees like this are. This oak had a diameter of 6-8', and just toppled, crushing a passing car and its driver. No weather was involved. The arborist called up for forensic purposes checked the next tree on this highly-traveled motorway. She found that its roots were just as structurally rotten, and it too was taken down as a hazard.

Is there an arborist here who can say that old trees of particular species are worse risks to set up under?

I don't believe that there's much risk at all. The matter is just how to reduce a substantial fraction of the tiny risk there is.

[Bradley]

Un-real . . .

. . . no telling how or when your number is up.

Live every moment to The fullest . . .

. . ask God to be merciful to your soul.

I pray a peace in the hearts for his loved ones.

[hppyfngy]

Having seen so many trees in my area snapped in the recent Derecho event, I was amazed at how many seemed to be hollowed out near the base. Those were a matter of age though and the root systems were intact.

I'll bet trees like this one are damaged by the surrounding infrastructure.

[Manchego]

Is there an arborist here who can say that old trees of particular species are worse risks to set up under?

I don't believe that there's much risk at all. The matter is just how to reduce a substantial fraction of the tiny risk there is.

Wow. NOT an arborist, but a PE that works for contractors and have built a few roads.

I can say from the picture that the tree is EXTREMELY close to the pavement. This is not normal, due to the impact risk, and normally there is guardrail that would maybe give a small amount of living room.

However, more important as to causation. Roads are placed on stone which is designed to drain. This, being Virginia, probably uses 21B for the recent widening (fresher asphalt). The 21B mix is coarser and designed to shed water to to shoulder from any water that hits either from rain or from underneath...meaning, to where this tree happens to be. Hence, the tree roots are going to be saturated most of the time and this probably contributed to the situation. I'll have to watch it again, but there's also a trend of late to treat water locally in ditchlines, both for quality and for quantity, which, if done here, would cause more water yet.

Avoiding: My guess is that this is brought on by manmade causes, so avoiding hanging next to an urban arterial is perhaps in order. In the wild I don't think you'd see such concentration of water, or it would be pretty swampy underfoot.

[Roadrunnr72]

And I would imagine that, being close to the road, the winter salt isn't helping the root system.

[Jhb627]

I recently had an oak 36" dia taken down due to it leaning towards the house. It was still what I thought was healthy. The arborist even pleaded with me not to take it down as it was healthy and drilled 2 10" deep test holes checking for rot. These pics show damage that ran from root to 85 feet upImageUploadedByTapatalk1342659058.117963.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1342659244.508102.jpg

[heyyou]

Most of the oak species here do get hollow with age, enough that firewood cutters refer to them as "shell" oak. That may be a climate adaptation. I didn't know that was unexpected in other areas.

[Doctari]

Also not an arborist, just an enthusiastic amateur.
Trees do every thing slowly, well, except for falling, they do that fairly quickly, so likely those trees were injured some time ago, like when the road was put in / widened. I agree with Manchego, likely not that big of a problem in the wild. I recently had a willow die after a few summers of moderate to severe drought, this too was a man-made problem, I made it: Planted the tree that loves water, on a dryish hilltop. Had I put it a few yards away, in a low lying area in my yard, it would likely be still alive. So, I suppose, know your species most Oaks like dry feet (roots) even if it is a "Wild" tree, if in a low area, it may be hurting. Whereas most willows LOVE wet feet & will seek out water, sometimes enough to damage nearby drain & sewer lines. If in an area you see all of one type of tree, & one of a completely different species, that odd tree may be barely hanging on.
Granted, there are exceptions, I have a Swamp white oak in my yard, found it as a seedling, along with a LOT of relatives in a very swampy area. It's doing fine in my yard, but it's mother, brothers & sisters are also doing well in their swamp 25 years later.

[J.Andersons]

We hope we identify dead limbs that may be "widower makers." I wonder, after this story
how common trees like this are. This oak had a diameter of 6-8', and just toppled, crushing a passing car and its driver. No weather was involved. The arborist called up for forensic purposes checked the next tree on this highly-traveled motorway. She found that its roots were just as structurally rotten, and it too was taken down as a hazard.

Is there an arborist here who can say that old trees of particular species are worse risks to set up under?

I don't believe that there's much risk at all. The matter is just how to reduce a substantial fraction of the tiny risk there is.

Holy CRAP!This oak I see from video almost does not have roots at all!

[samsara]

I'm a forester so I work on more of a... forest level But I do get called on from time to time for shade tree calls. My best advice is to look at the health of the tree, look at the surroundings, and give it your best guess. You can have a healthy looking tree that is sick on the inside (or has major root issues) or you can have a scraggly looking tree that is perfectly healthy and will live for decades (I've seen examples of both). If you really must know then call an arborist, have them do all of their magic, and still they might not be able to predict the future for you

Some things that I would look for are:

• Does the tree "look" healthy
• Does it have obvious signs of excessive insect/disease problems (insects and disease are a normal part of life for a tree, just like for us, so you will almost always see signs of them but if they look excessive or appear to be affecting the tree then they are probably a problem)
• Look around for things that might negatively impact the root system (sidewalks, roads, house foundations, construction work or other ground disturbance, additional topsoil placed around the tree)
• Is the tree nearing old age?
• Is the tree on the right site (elevation, soil, soil moisture, etc)?

Those are just some of the things to look for. Trees really are just like people... they get sick and recover, they have things that cause their health to decline, they get old and die. The trick is to notice if there is anything seriously wrong. Even then, just like with humans, there are silent killers out there that will sneak up on a tree and kill it even if you think the tree looked good.

I'm not sure I helped much... my last bit of advice is to get a good, certified ISA arborist that hopefully has a good reputation. There are plenty of people will to cut your tree down for a hefty fee but a good arborist is worth their weight in... high quality carving wood?

Dave

P.S. Ok, I lied... my last bit of advice is if you have trees in your yard that you think might need to be removed some day then you should start planning for it's replacement now. It takes a long time to grow a big shade tree so get started early!