Meet my new 3 Season "Phincubator" and Wide Burrow in M50/10D

[Jammmin]

So, Thanks for all the input so far. So I have a zero rated incubator for nights 10 and below so I'm covered for deep winter either when car camping or back packing. What I cant decide on is weather or not I want a 20 Incubator or a 20 Phincubator for those 3 Season Trips. I love my Phoenix but I am tired of my feet being cold, my pad slipping around all over the place and what I hate most is the condensation that builds up on my pad and then soaks my TQ and my Hammock where my feet and legs are. Is the Phincubator just as no fuss as the Incubator or because the Phincubator does not cover your head you still have to make sure their is a seal by the shoulders so you don't get any cold spots running down your back. I wonder what the weight different between the a 20 Incubator and a 20 Phincubator is??? Decisions, decisions,

I can't possibly think I would want to have any chance at being cold to save a few ounces. At the temps you would be using a 20*, go for the Incubator.
Just my 2 cents and I own a 0*, 20* Incubator and 40* Phoenix.

[Mountain Gout]

I really don't get the cold feet problem either.. The whole reason for getting a custom phincubator is to cover you perfectly with no extra material..
I am thinking operator error here..
I am 5ft. 11in. Mine is 64in. Laying on the diagonal it is more than enough coverage.. To be honest, I haven't used it outside yet, but the room I hang in isn't heated and I would know immediately if it didn't cover me..
Sorry folks but that doesn't make sense..... jmo..

[lazy river road]

I really don't get the cold feet problem either.. The whole reason for getting a custom phincubator is to cover you perfectly with no extra material..
I am thinking operator error here..
I am 5ft. 11in. Mine is 64in. Laying on the diagonal it is more than enough coverage.. To be honest, I haven't used it outside yet, but the room I hang in isn't heated and I would know immediately if it didn't cover me..
Sorry folks but that doesn't make sense..... jmo..

Thanks for the input Mt Gout. Were pretty much the same height so hearing your experience is reassuring as I was wondering the same question as you. How could one's feet be cold? So 64in would be plenty long enough for me if it is for you. Leaning toward the Phincubator

[hammockBlazn]

Cold feet were an issue for me as well. I just found that I still had to check to make sure everything was "right" before laying down. With that said mine was a tad short at 62". I'm 5'11

[lazy river road]

Cold feet were an issue for me as well. I just found that I still had to check to make sure everything was "right" before laying down. With that said mine was a tad short at 62". I'm 5'11

AAHH now it makes sense yes two inches may not seem like a lot but IMHO it is. Was it that your feet were just hanging over the edge of the UQ, I could see how that would be bothersome. However after hearing from you and Mt. Gout I think I'm gonna order mine at 65" possibly 66" just to make sure it covers my feet and a bit of wiggle room. Still shorter then an incubator but certainly longer then a 2/3 or a 3/4.

[hammockBlazn]

If I were to do it again it would be a 68". Those extra few inches allow for less fiddle factor. I just hate to check the foot box to make sure its around my feet every time I readjust. The more length you have the less this will be a problem.

[rip waverly]

To clarify, when laying in a hammock, what happens is that the users heels tend to be a/the "heavy" element in the system. If you've ever heard of or experienced calf ridge, you'll know that from the knees down, your legs can "hang" over a ridge of fabric, stressing the hammock at the feet. It's likely a reason Brandon has responded with a redesigned blackbird that encourages the user to be positioned closer to the head end whipping. --or, why folks use a pillow or cram extra clothing under their legs.

So to explain, the persons heels fall over the ridge and into a hammock foot pouch. With the dynamics or potential energy of the users feet while sleeping, ( it seems a lot here toss and turn in an 8 hour period of rest ) what occurs is a lot of pushing against the quilt, forcing it down and away from the hammock. And with a quilt that terminates just past the feet, the potential for a gap to form becomes amplified. I have witnessed this happen, and it doesn't take much more than a few inches of gap to form an air tunnel to let 20F settle in at the users feet.

3/4 quilts benefit because they terminate at a point where there is greater contact dispersed across the hammock, creating a flatter, less dynamic seal. And then with a full length, now you're talking some extra length that can account for the dynamics of "heels falling over the calf ridge" and pushing the quilt down. It's why pods are so efficient in cold weather.

It's hardest to ensure a consistent seal at the feet, so some use a jacket to burrito wrap the hammock and quilt. I know I do. If you look at a Speer snugfit, you'll see quilt fabric extending up to the whipping, creating an efficient seal. Wasted insulation or fabric, yes,,, but it negates potential weak points , gaps , in a hammock insulation system.

All this directly correlates , well mostly, to below freezing tempetures. And is IMHO