"...I didn't get a harumph outta that guy!"
@ Gresh: The feedback to the OP also serves as support for the mods.
I love this site. I recognize it's only a small slice of the available "outdoorsy" internet, but I almost always start here because of the civility. Thanks Mods!
"...the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog."
-LTC D. Grossman
Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion and express it in a respectful way. I've had post deleted and threads moved before and looking back well yeah I probably deserved it . As for keeping this forum strictly about hammocks well that's what I love about this forum. It is well organized and well its simply about hammocks.
Knowing several of the mod personally It is IMHO that they do an excellent job here and if it was not for them and the many other amazing members who I consider many to be my friend I'd go be a part of forum xyz or this or that.
thanks Mods for all your hard work and dedication.
Sometimes I like to hike and think, And sometimes I just like to hike.
Hiking is'ent about waiting for the storm to pass its about learning to hike in the rain.
The only time I have been disappointed in the moderation of this site was when I broke the TOS. I may not like all of the rules, but I did agree to them when I signed up. So shortly after I realized that my feelings were hurt from someone on the internet deleting my post about Christmas, I also realized that I had broken the TOS and apologized.
This is not a site for everything under the sun to be discussed, and I'm cool with that for the most part. That is one of the reasons I've found group hangs to be so much fun. You can talk about just about anything around a campfire of semi-like-minded people.
To the OP: I've felt your frustration with the swiftness of a MOD's work, but I have also felt the peace that comes from accepting that this is the way things are and the joy from all the great people and lessons I've learned from on here.
Never had a problem on this site - in fact, I don't think I've ever had a problem on any site. A little civility and talking to people as though they were present goes a long way.
"There are places in this world that are neither here nor there, neither up nor down, neither real nor imaginary. These are the in-between places, difficult to find and even more challenging to sustain." - Thomas Moore
One thing that strikes me about this thread (and a couple of other semi-recent threads as well) is that the OP opinion seems to alienate the moderators from the members, as if we weren't first long-standing members. With the exception of Jeff (co-founder), all of the active mods were members that were added to the team as things went along. To a person, we're all very interested in hammocks. We enjoy using and talking about them, and want to see the community here flourish. We're all members first, moderators second. And because of that, we care. If we didn't, we wouldn't spend dozens of hours a week organizing threads, responding to questions, answering PM's...all with volunteered effort.
I say that to illustrate that HF just isn't run like any number of other sites. It is very much member-driven. So, contrary to the OP's claims, we do carefully listen to the members. However, for the good of the whole forum, we are sometimes forced to make decisions that run contrary to popular member opinion. And on occasion, those decisions are pretty hard to make and we may not even like having to do it. More often that not, those situations are because of prior related issues that have caused conflict, or to avoid what we know to be unfortunate but inevitable problems down the road. We don't always like that, but it's simple reality.
So, I do not doubt that some of the decisions the moderators make are unpopular. And no doubt that we do alienate some of the members from time to time by either responding to something poorly (we're human), or by simply doing something that they disagree with. But is that disrespectful? I don't believe so. If it were, we very much like to think that the more established members here would tell us...after all, we have known many of you personally for years from hikes and hangouts. Many we even number as close friends. But if that happened, I like to think it wouldn't involve name-calling, like draconian and exclusionary.
Is HF moderated tightly? Yes. But please understand, that's very much on purpose. When HF was split from Whiteblaze, shortly thereafter, that site had to be shut down for a while because it got out of hand from arguing, trolling, and off-topic posts. It caused a rift in that community whose effects are still felt. We are absolutely dedicated to seeing that that does not occur here. So, do forgive us if we continually err on the side of caution rather than debate.
In this particular case, it seems the OP is upset about the moving of a single thread some months ago, and not adding a new feature. Fine, we listened and understand that you disagree. Message received. But forgive us if we feel that name-calling and leaving is over-reacting. That being said, we wish you nothing but success. There are lots of other wonderful outdoor-related communities, and I'm sure one of them will fit your needs.
I think that sometimes (and I believe this to be the case with the OP) more is read into the tone of something a moderator says than was actually intended. As canoebie often tells us, it is difficult to accurately convey tone in written language without actual body language to back it up. And a couple of us are admittedly and notoriously bad at conveying that. So while a response may be intended as a flat and straightforward reply yet it comes across as chastisement...that's rarely the intent. And we would ask for the benefit of the doubt when a response can be read in more than one way. But also remember that setting and enforcing rules sometimes does require a certain firmness. That firmness should not be mistaken for arrogance though.
Yes, this is still a 'small' forum. We recently culled a big bunch of zero-post accounts that hadn't been logged into in a couple of years. That leaves HF with about 16,000 members...and 5 currently active moderators. While that may not sound like an astounding ratio, and it's probably not...let us assure you that it keeps us busy. Sometimes busy enough that we forget to send a PM when one of us moves a thread, which was the case here. That was the exception rather than the rule.
There's actually a little bit of a joke among the mods about how we are akin to the custodial staff of HF. As janitors, we mop up the messes and take out the trash. So, as a janitor for HF...I'd just like to say - Please don't be offended if we move one of your threads. It's not personal. We're just doing our best to keep things organized and running smoothly. And please don't hold it against us if we respond to something poorly. If that's the case, chances are that you received a quick response because we were busy in real life, but didn't want to leave you waiting to hear back. We admit we aren't perfect, but we do try our best. Hopefully that best is good enough to keep things going smoothly.
All smilies implied.
...just the musings of one mod. Don't hold it against me.
“I think that when the lies are all told and forgot the truth will be there yet. It dont move about from place to place and it dont change from time to time. You cant corrupt it any more than you can salt salt.” - Cormac McCarthy
One thing I try to teach my children is not to be a victim. It's so easy to think people are out to get you, but it's loser thinking - it doesn't benefit anyone.
I must admit I struggled with "the rules" growing up - any rules. And if there were consequences for me breaking the rules, it was always someone else's fault - always. I never did anything wrong. I accepted no personal responsibility. Needless to say, with that type of attitude, it was hard to stay gainfully employed. In fact, one of my trademarks after losing a job was to give my employer the finger and a few choices words on my way out the door.
Well, I grew up. I decided I was no longer going to be a victim, no longer going to walk around with a persecution complex, that everyone was out to get me, that nothing was ever my fault. I'm happy to say that the same employer has fired me four times (or laid off, same difference), and hired me back four times because I didn't succumb to victimhood. I didn't give them the finger once as I hit the door. One time was especially hard to be quiet - they fired me the week before Christmas! That was especially hard to hold my tongue.
I still have moments of victimhood, where I think a certain mod is out to get me (you know who you are!), but I realize that it just doesn't pay to have such negative feelings. Besides, they're feelings - I never have any concrete evidence that someone is out to get me. Just a feeling. Feelings cause people to do stupid things, to say stupid things, to possibly damage relationships or associations. That's why I try to keep my feelings at bay - they're rarely rational.
I think OP may have taken things way too personally, let his feelings get in the way, when the mods were just doing their jobs. With such a modest posting history, I doubt the moderators even knew him enough to dislike him or be "out to get him."
None of my posts get moved any more - I've figured out which forum to post them to, though I struggled at first. I still get the occasional deleted post, but hey, I'm human!
It's certainly a lot more convenient to blame others on your own failure to follow the rules, but it's certainly not mature or productive. And feelings certainly interfere with a civil and reasoned discourse of all things hammocking.
Last edited by SilvrSurfr; 09-20-2012 at 21:29.
Found this place almost 2 years ago from another forum. Shortly afterwards joined after seeing the single mindedness and friendliness of the membership. Didn't realize at first most of it was due to hard work of our moderators. Sure we have stoves, packs, cutlery, food, etc. But this is THE Hammock Forum. In the recent past we had a thread on 'how do you store a firearm in your hammock'. Through excellent moderation with a few admonitions this thread was allowed to continue for numerous post. I can't imagine the amount of moderation and leniency that was allowed on that thread.
Recently noticed some request to add this or that subforum. In my humble opinion,IMHO something else an old man had to learn, I'm more than happy with the way the Forum is and is currently ran. I'm here morning, noon and night and still have more than enough to keep up with.
Close this bit of ramble with a hearty Thank You to our janitors.
Most of us end up poorer here but richer for being here. Olddog, Fulltime hammocker, 365 nights a year.
The OP also had an attack and quit post on the thread. about chat. I was taught not to quit and figured out the need to persuade. My second job was janitorial (1st was paper boy) and to this day go out of my way to not make it difficult for those who clean up messes. Thanks moderators for the work you do. This is my favorite forum
Count me in as another satisfied member with HF. I think the moderators do a pretty good job.