Speer SnugFit and JRB Mt Washington Underquilts

[Peter_pan]

I just wanted to bring this back up now that cooler weather is upon us.

Youngblood, et al,

Good to bring these old threads up on cycle to be seasonally timely for the newbies.

BTW, Since this thread started last year, a second "snug Fit" design under quilt has come to market. The JRB Mt Washinton Under Quilt although highlighted as a dual differential design, body contoured, constant height baffles, zero degree UQ is also a "snug fit" design... Attach it snugly, and get in no adjustment necessary...

Pan

[Youngblood]

Youngblood, et al,

Good to bring these old threads up on cycle to be seasonally timely for the newbies.

BTW, Since this thread started last year, a second "snug Fit" design under quilt has come to market. The JRB Mt Washinton Under Quilt although highlighted as a dual differential design, body contoured, constant height baffles, zero degree UQ is also a "snug fit" design... Attach it snugly, and get in no adjustment necessary...

Pan

I always thought the 'keep adjusting' approach with flat quilts left a lot to be desired and is why I developed the SnugFit Underquilt. What prompted you to make such a radical departure in the underquilts you have been selling for so many years?

[warbonnetguy]

i'm sure yb would agree that there's more to getting a "snug" fit than just a differential cut. the shape of the uq has alot to do with how it fits the bottom of the hammock, and it makes sense that hammocks of drastically different shapes (bridge vs. end gathered) would require uq's of different "ideal shapes" in order to achieve a "snug fit".

how cold has the mt washington been taken to without supplemental bottom insul? what kind of hammock?

[Peter_pan]

I always thought the 'keep adjusting' approach with flat quilts left a lot to be desired and is why I developed the SnugFit Underquilt. What prompted you to make such a radical departure in the underquilts you have been selling for so many years?

Youngblood, et al,

No radical departure....The JRB families of standard size quilts and large sized quilts are still far and away the mainstream of hammock quilts and quite popular with the ultra light ground community...The Mt Washington is our 18th quilt model...

It was designed and built for several reasons...It is first a perfect compliment to the Bear Mountain Bridge Hammock and because it incorporates the early 2008 JRB Nest and Winter Nest foot end improved suspension system on both ends of the Mt Washington it fits all hammock models....Second, we wanted to make a model that took little to no experiance or learning to get to its maximum design capabilities....Third, we believed a zero degree uq capability for well under 30 ounces was achievable with these design features...Fourth, with addition of the Full Length Omni Tape modification and when married to a DTEPC would outfit the ground dwelling ultralighters with a winter quilt/bag that would not be prone to compression at the elbow, knees etc as they thrashed on the ground.

We still believe that on average the three season hammocker and even winter hammocker is well served with a proper season JRB standard quilt.... They may initially take five minutes of fiddle to get properly hung, perhaps that first correction when one realizes it is not quite right.... But once you have the correct tension it is easily retained....These quilts easily achieve their season ratings... They more often than not support our goal that the quilt be multifunctional. And they are more economical, a very significant point for most folk, especially in these economically strained times... These popular and effective models number well into the thousands...JRB plans to keep them available....

Dave, think of the Mt Washington as rounding out a full line of models, so that the customer has a complete range of choices.... In the early years JRB quilts were designed to be stackable so that someone with a UQ & aTQ could combine then and head into single digits or below. (Incidently this stackability remains true of current moels in the standard size family of JRB quilts.) This was a flexibility of design feature, but candidly it allowed JRB to meet the community needs with lesser numbers of quilt models while we we simultaneously increasing production capacity....

We think the community is best serverd when they have choices....That is why since the original commercial under quilt, the JRB Nest, we have developed and brought to market 50 hammock accessories in these last five years.

Pan

[Youngblood]

Youngblood, et al,

No radical departure....The JRB families of standard size quilts and large sized quilts are still far and away the mainstream of hammock quilts and quite popular with the ultra light ground community...The Mt Washington is our 18th quilt model...

It was designed and built for several reasons...It is first a perfect compliment to the Bear Mountain Bridge Hammock and because it incorporates the early 2008 JRB Nest and Winter Nest foot end improved suspension system on both ends of the Mt Washington it fits all hammock models....Second, we wanted to make a model that took little to no experiance or learning to get to its maximum design capabilities....Third, we believed a zero degree uq capability for well under 30 ounces was achievable with these design features...Fourth, with addition of the Full Length Omni Tape modification and when married to a DTEPC would outfit the ground dwelling ultralighters with a winter quilt/bag that would not be prone to compression at the elbow, knees etc as they thrashed on the ground.

We still believe that on average the three season hammocker and even winter hammocker is well served with a proper season JRB standard quilt.... They may initially take five minutes of fiddle to get properly hung, perhaps that first correction when one realizes it is not quite right.... But once you have the correct tension it is easily retained....These quilts easily achieve their season ratings... They more often than not support our goal that the quilt be multifunctional. And they are more economical, a very significant point for most folk, especially in these economically strained times... These popular and effective models number well into the thousands...JRB plans to keep them available....

Dave, think of the Mt Washington as rounding out a full line of models, so that the customer has a complete range of choices.... In the early years JRB quilts were designed to be stackable so that someone with a UQ & aTQ could combine then and head into single digits or below. (Incidently this stackability remains true of current moels in the standard size family of JRB quilts.) This was a flexibility of design feature, but candidly it allowed JRB to meet the community needs with lesser numbers of quilt models while we we simultaneously increasing production capacity....

We think the community is best serverd when they have choices....That is why since the original commercial under quilt, the JRB Nest, we have developed and brought to market 50 hammock accessories in these last five years.

Pan

Pan,

Seems like a radical departure to me. On 4/4/2008, when we had warm weather coming up you where saying my SnugFit was deficient in some way to your standard flat quilts used as underquilts because of your claimed 'vent issues' and then you turn around and make your own version because of how well the SnugFit design works. IMHO, it sounds like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth... but, as you like to say, of course I may be biased.

This is your 4/4/2008 post:

Skskinner, et al,

Your comments gets at the essence of design trade-offs.... Snugfit is a no brainer snug up for winter, almost impossible to get it wrong..... However, unlike the JRB's which readily open or close the windows for summer/warmer weather ventilation while still insulating the body organs core the snug fit requires rigging some drop/space for warmer weather use and it may or may not maintain the warmth/contact for the organ core since the drop/venting applies along the full length.... Youngblood may want to clarify on this point.

Conversely the JRB quilts with the suspension system may take 5 minutes and an assistant to get fine tuned, but after that, they are virtually a hang and forget each time, if the Suspension System is cinched tight and left on the hammock between uses. Each uq has a season where some fiddling or experiance comes into play.

Simple fact is that all hammocks and all insulation systems have trade offs...

Pan

and this is your 10/27/2009 post:

Youngblood, et al,

Good to bring these old threads up on cycle to be seasonally timely for the newbies.

BTW, Since this thread started last year, a second "snug Fit" design under quilt has come to market. The JRB Mt Washinton Under Quilt although highlighted as a dual differential design, body contoured, constant height baffles, zero degree UQ is also a "snug fit" design... Attach it snugly, and get in no adjustment necessary...

Pan

BTW, the original SnugFit Underquilt sold by Speer Hammocks works fine from 70F to 30F for the most folks. That temperature range was chosen after testing prototypes with both more and less insulation because it was felt that was the most useful range for the typical backpacker. Of course the lower temperature range can be extended by additional clothing, insulation, or the addition of a vapor barrier.

[Peter_pan]

Pan,

Seems like a radical departure to me. On 4/4/2008, when we had warm weather coming up you where saying my SnugFit was deficient in some way to your standard flat quilts used as underquilts because of your claimed 'vent issues' and then you turn around and make your own version because of how well the SnugFit design works. IMHO, it sounds like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth... but, as you like to say, of course I may be biased.

This is your 4/4/2008 post:



and this is your 10/27/2009 post:



BTW, the original SnugFit Underquilt sold by Speer Hammocks works fine from 70F to 30F for the most folks. That temperature range was chosen after testing prototypes with both more and less insulation because it was felt that was the most useful range for the typical backpacker. Of course the lower temperature range can be extended by additional clothing, insulation, or the addition of a vapor barrier.

YB,

I stand by my earlier posts and my answer above to your question...

The JRB Family of Standard Sized Quilts make great hammock under quilts... They do have great flexibilty and they readily vent well and easily.... They have a wide range of utility at great economy for users.

The JRB Mt Washington was designed for even colder temperatures...It is a more complex design.... BTW, It also retains fair to good " open the windows" venting option in warmer weather when used on traditional gathered end hammocks, Speer, ENO, HH etc....Although minor venting is possible when used on the BMBH, it will require some re-rigging to drop it some if full or near full venting is need in hot weather for BMBH users.

Pan

[Youngblood]

Thanks for the response Jack.

You already have several flat quilts with 3 inch baffle height like your Mt Washington has, 3 by my count-- the Winter Nest, Rocky Mtn Sniviller, and the Old Rag Mtn. Are you still going to make those or does the Mt Washington obsolete them?

[Peter_pan]

Thanks for the response Jack.

You already have several flat quilts with 3 inch baffle height like your Mt Washington has, 3 by my count-- the Winter Nest, Rocky Mtn Sniviller, and the Old Rag Mtn. Are you still going to make those or does the Mt Washington obsolete them?

Dave,

All the quilts in the JRB line will continue as indicated in my post #61 above...

"We still believe that on average the three season hammocker and even winter hammocker is well served with a proper season JRB standard quilt.... They may initially take five minutes of fiddle to get properly hung, perhaps that first correction when one realizes it is not quite right.... But once you have the correct tension it is easily retained....These quilts easily achieve their season ratings... They more often than not support our goal that the quilt be multifunctional. And they are more economical, a very significant point for most folk, especially in these economically strained times... These popular and effective models number well into the thousands...JRB plans to keep them available...."

Again, it is all about giving customers choices... Everyone does not need or want a Cadillac, some prefer a SUV, pickup, sedan, or economy model.

Pan

[warbonnetguy]

Youngblood, et al,
It was designed and built for several reasons...Fourth, with addition of the Full Length Omni Tape modification and when married to a DTEPC would outfit the ground dwelling ultralighters with a winter quilt/bag that would not be prone to compression at the elbow, knees etc as they thrashed on the ground.
Pan

42" width tq is pretty narrow even in a hammock. is a 42" wide quilt even useable on the ground for a normal sized adult? seems too narrow, most ground quilts are much wider, even the minimalist ultralight ones are at least 48". i just don't see a ground dweller being able to use a quilt that narrow.

[fin]

some prefer a SUV, pickup, sedan, or economy model.

Pan

Which one is the economy model - all seem priced like a Lexus SUV to me, just one has the DVD player in the back of the headrest, and the others only have it in the ceiling!

Seriously, I'd love to have either a snugfit (I like the lengthwise baffels) or a JRB (different models), both get great reviews and have their converts. But both are out of my regular budget. I like both you guys, but if you are going to wage a public battle of words over whose models are true to their history and advertising, or who is infringing on someone else's design, take it offline, please. We all love both of you and your ingenuity, drive and the contributions that you have made and continue to make to the hanging community. But this is starting to sound like a couple of kids bickering over who's Dad is bigger and stronger. Please, for both your sakes, kiss and make up as best you can. Losing either one of you as a regular contributor to hard feelings towards one another would be a tragedy to the rest of us here. Please?!