I also dislike the sheepshank, for the above mentioned reasons. Honestly you'd be better off throwing a scrap of cardboard or extra sweatshirt under the rope than trying to get all fancy with that nonsense.
I also dislike the sheepshank, for the above mentioned reasons. Honestly you'd be better off throwing a scrap of cardboard or extra sweatshirt under the rope than trying to get all fancy with that nonsense.
Wow, you folks are a tough audience!
Well, ok, the bowline idea was just crazy talk, I guess. The fact that you wrap it around a person to help cushion them when the are hanging on a rope was my inspiration. But onward through the fog of my mind...
As I mentioned the Sheep Bend tied "as is" will need to be under constant tension, and others were kind enough to pointed out again that it is not to be used in climbing, rescue, etc. However, it is used for static loads, to take up slack, etc. and if the half hitches can be secured so they won't untie then I think it would work. (they laughed at Edison when he said DC was the wave of the future...:-)
The wt. issue is a good argument. The polypro webbing Speer sells is about 0.21 oz/foot and 2.8 mm Spyderline is about 0.064 oz/foot per my quick calculations. so it is roughly 3:1 which means 3 rope strands would weight about the same as one webbing piece of similar length. So is 3 strands enough cushion for the tree? ' Don't know. I would like to simplify all the stuff I need to deal with with the hammock. Webbing, 'biners, rope, rings, etc. There would be something elegant about just using the rope to tie to the tree, like in days of yore, if you could do it without hurting the tree. Ah, but "there lies the rub."
So, I plan to try some things and I appreciate your thoughts.
All of the high tech line that TeeDee and I have measured is about 1/3 the weight of polyester webbing. So, you would have to use a length of the high tech rope no more than 3 times the length of the webbing used.
To get an equivalent width of 3 mm rope to 1" webbing you need over 8 rope widths.
So the rope is going to be more weight than the webbing unless the 1" webbing is actually too much width, .i.e., if 3 rope widths, which for 3 mm rope is 9 mm or about 1/3", is really sufficient to spread the forces out enough to prevent damage.
Don't know if anybody has really done any research into the minimum width needed to prevent damage, but once you find that minimum width, then you can do a meaningful comparison between multiple rope wraps and webbing.
I can understand the desire to simplify. For _me_ I can't get simpler than the ring buckle suspension. I'll throw the cinch buckle in there too although I have never used it. My mind gets numb at the thought of having to make a sheep shank and keep it under tension as I am trying to to mess with a whole length of rope that I have to keep from tangling. Give me webbing and biner that I can slp around the tree and be done with it. Also be aware that the suspension system of a hammock is not a static system. It is very dynamic with the tension on the suspension ropes changing with every movement you make. I would be concerned there could be enuf change in tension to upset and release the sheeps shank. Then you eating dirt, which what we are trying to get away from in the first place.
I can't imagine trying to mess with ropes and fancy knots with mittens on. But to each their own. Let us know how your experiments go.
I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.
"Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
Mrs. Loftus to Huck Finn
We Don't Sew... We Make Gear! video series
Important thread injector guidelines especially for Newbies
Bobbin Tension - A Personal Viewpoint
Does anyone know of any actual data on damage especially for static suspension on a tree?Originally Posted by TiredFeet
It makes sense that if you pull the rope across the tree it will cut the bark, but what if you lay the rope on the bark. For thick barked trees I would think you could carefully lay the rope around the tree and as long as you didn't drag it across the bark an cut with it then the tree would be fine. Bark of 1/2 to 1 inch thick would be equivalent to "cardboard" or "sweatshirt" I would think.
Anyone know anything about this subject?
-Thanks,
-SlowBro
My understanding is it is not just cutting the bark that is the problem. The cambria layer of the tree is right under the bark and it is very sensitive to compression. By compressing the bark in concentrated areas the cambria is squashed which in turn disrupts the flow of nutrients into the tree. So you can kill the tree by compressing the bark. Granted the density and thickness of the bark influences that risk.
I may be slow... But I sure am gimpy.
"Bless you child, when you set out to thread a needle don't hold the thread still and fetch the needle up to it; hold the needle still and poke the thread at it; that's the way a woman most always does, but a man always does t'other way."
Mrs. Loftus to Huck Finn
We Don't Sew... We Make Gear! video series
Important thread injector guidelines especially for Newbies
Bobbin Tension - A Personal Viewpoint
Correction - it used to be used to cushion a person, before climbers started carrying nylon webbing. Now that webbing is a part of every climber's rack, it's both easier and safer to tie a harness from webbing, and far more comfortable to boot. Seeing any parallels here?
I haven't seen any data. In my experience some tree bark is so tough that hard rope won't mark it and other tree bark is so tender that you can mark it if you just look at it wrong.
But back to your question, I don't think there is any recognized standard. We have gravitated to 1 inch webbing as the 'standard' with up to 2 inch webbing for heavier setups... but there is no science behind it that I know of.
Youngblood AT2000
Well, atleast I can offer a new glimmer of hope here.
The 3:1 isn't totally accurate. The webbing goes from the hammock then all the way to the tree and around. So it is webbing all the way. You will only need the extra line where it touches the tree. From hammock to tree will be a single strand. That's where the real weight savings can occur. So the part of line going around the tree weighs as much as webbing if you use 3 wraps, meaning no weight savings there. But you save 66% of the weight going from the hammock to the tree because of the single strand of line. Now that's as much math as I am capable of, and no guarantees I didn't screw that up. Now it's up to Grizz to finish up for me and confuse us all.
"Oh, like an Afghan Warlord"
I was thinking SlowBro was trying to get rid of using tree huggers with rope by using more rope to replace the tree huggers.
Youngblood AT2000
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