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  1. #11
    Senior Member
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    I personally always used a 24-25" pad even with the wings. Be advised that the ENO product only accepts a 20" wide pad. That may be OK but if you want one for a wider pad you will have to make it yourself. SPEs are thankfully one of the easiest things to sew and really do work well.

  2. #12
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by peripatew View Post
    Thanks for the feedback on the pad buckling. Does it do that in all your hammocks? Specifically the double layers? I've yet to own a double layer.
    It will do it with all gathered end hammocks.

  3. #13
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peripatew View Post
    Great links everyone. So how does R-value translate into a degree rating? Is there a good way to estimate this? I know everyone sleeps different, but just curious.
    I think rule of thumb is r value one = about 10-12*F of insulation.

    So using 70F as a starting point, R1 should get most folks to 60 or 58, ball park.

  4. #14
    Senior Member peripatew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguel View Post
    I personally always used a 24-25" pad even with the wings. Be advised that the ENO product only accepts a 20" wide pad. That may be OK but if you want one for a wider pad you will have to make it yourself. SPEs are thankfully one of the easiest things to sew and really do work well.
    Thanks for the feedback on the pad width!

  5. #15
    Senior Member peripatew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    I think rule of thumb is r value one = about 10-12*F of insulation.

    So using 70F as a starting point, R1 should get most folks to 60 or 58, ball park.
    Simple enough! Thanks. So the reverse is true too? A 20* UQ has an R value of 5?

  6. #16
    Senior Member BillyBob58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peripatew View Post
    Simple enough! Thanks. So the reverse is true too? A 20* UQ has an R value of 5?
    Well, I have not seen quilts/bags rated for R-value, but that makes sense. Or if you use the higher figure of 12 ( maybe even a bit over 12 ) r= 4.16.

    But I'm not sure how exact the figures are on this. For instance, Youngblood - the designer of the Speer SPE - had a table that showed some "observed" workable temps using his SPE with various pads. ( Edit: I suppose he managed to test the results in a hammock or he had some friends to help him. And I suppose as usual individuals will vary greatly! )

    He showed that a 1/8" CCF pad @ r 0.5 was "good" to 63 , or 70-63=7, and 7 divided by R0.5= 14F per R!

    While a 1/2" pad with R 2.2 worked at 43. So 70-43= 27 . 27 divided by R2.2= 12.272 per R.

    1" pad at R 4.3 good to 17F. So, 70 minus 17 = 53 divided by R4.3 = 12.325 per R.

    BUT, with an inflatable 1" pad rated at R 2.3 he showed 47. 70 - 47 = 23/2.3= 10F per R! Several other inflatables only show about 10F per R unit.

    So I guess we have a ball park of 10-14F per R, with the thinner CCF pads being a little higher on the R per inch scale. But mostly about 10 for the inflatables ( based on their R rating ) and about 12.5 for most of the CCF pads.

    But here is where a monkey wrench gets thrown into the machinery: a lot of folks are cold in a hammock even at 75. Would these observed temps still work for them, or do we need to move the "good to" temps up 5F? But, if we need to move those workable termps up, it does not change the degrees per r value guestimate.

    But if the "75F" folks are still good with a 1/8" pad @ 63F, or with a 1" pad to 17F, then the degrees of protection per R value are even higher than the above calculations indicated.
    Last edited by BillyBob58; 11-28-2012 at 15:47.

  7. #17
    Senior Member peripatew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob58 View Post
    Well, I have not seen quilts/bags rated for R-value, but that makes sense. Or if you use the higher figure of 12 ( maybe even a bit over 12 ) r= 4.16.

    But I'm not sure how exact the figures are on this. For instance, Younblood - the designer of the Speer SPE - had a table that showed some "observed" workable temps using his SPE with various pads.

    He showed that a 1/8" CCF pad @ r 0.5 was "good" to 63 , or 70-63=7, and 7 divided by R0.5= 14F per R!

    While a 1/2" pad with R 2.2 worked at 43. So 70-43= 27 . 27 divided by R2.2= 12.272 per R.

    1" pad at R 4.3 good to 17F. So, 70 minus 17 = 53 divided by R4.3 = 12.325 per R.

    BUT, with an inflatable 1" pad rated at R 2.3 he showed 47. 70 - 47 = 23/2.3= 10F per R! Several other inflatables only show about 10F per R unit.

    So I guess we have a ball park of 10-14F per R, with the thinner CCF pads being a little higher on the R per inch scale. But mostly about 10 for the inflatables ( based on their R rating ) and about 12.5 for most of the CCF pads.

    But here is where a monkey wrench gets thrown into the machinery: a lot of folks are cold in a hammock even at 75. Would these observed temps still work for them, or do we need to move the "good to" temps up 5F? But, if we need to move those workable termps up, it does not change the degrees per r value guestimate.

    But if the "75F" folks are still good with a 1/8" pad @ 63F, or with a 1" pad to 17F, then the degrees of protection per R value are even higher than the above calculations indicated.
    Wow! Great post. Make sense and helps when looking at CCF, inflatables, and sleeping bags. I wonder if most inflatables how less F per R since they were likely partially inflated? Or if there is more heat loss for inflatables that are up in the air vs. on the ground.

  8. #18
    Senior Member HappyCamper's Avatar
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    Oware sells a very thin (3/16) wide pad. I use this to supplement my underquilt in cold/windy weather to keep sides warm and cut down on cold spots. It does fold up on you and like any ccf pad you can get condensation under you. I move around a lot so I have less of a problem with this than others.
    Exercise, eat right, die anyway -- Country Roads bumper sticker
    Fall seven times, standup eight. -- Japanese Proverb

  9. #19
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    I have recently been asked to test some samples of 40X72 eva pad by gossamer gear. So they should have a new supply in the near future. I have cut mine down to mummy shape and it has greatly reduced the buckling.

  10. #20
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    I velcroed wings on my ridgerest and it works really well (I took two ridgerest pads, cut pieces from one and velcroed them on the other). Contact cement worked wonders for attaching the velcro. I wish I could post pictures though -- been having IT issues accessing HF.

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