Where's your pad?

[Hooch]

With the upcoming winter hang almost upon us, I'm looking at options to stay warm and comfy for the trip. One thing that I plan on taking with me is my SnugFit along with a CCF pad. For those who use a CCF pad and and underquilt together in very cold weather, where do you put your pad? Do you put it directly under you between you and the hammock or sandwich it between the hammock and the underquilt? This is going to be my first really cold weather hang, so I want to get it right. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[BillyBob58]

Will that Snugfit hold the pad up against your back, if you put it down in the UQ? If so, I would guess it might add a good bit used that way, with no to minimal decrease in comfort. You should give it a try and let us know. Of course, inside the hammock ( preferably in an SPE or double layer hammock) is a sure way to get a lot of extra warmth, if sweat issues don't arise.

I believe a heat sheet or space blanket/VB under the hammock but on top of that Snugfit will get you a good boost also.

[Shug]

With the upcoming winter hang almost upon us, I'm looking at options to stay warm and comfy for the trip. One thing that I plan on taking with me is my SnugFit along with a CCF pad. For those who use a CCF pad and and underquilt together in very cold weather, where do you put your pad? Do you put it directly under you between you and the hammock or sandwich it between the hammock and the underquilt? This is going to be my first really cold weather hang, so I want to get it right. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

As a cold weather guy .... I put my pad in the hammock with the UQ under, of coarse. You will be warm and if it is really cold you should not have condensation issues.
Any ol' ways .... that is what I do.
Sleep snug.
Shug

[2Questions]

I've been putting my GG pad between the hammock and Snugfit. The pad acts like a vapor barrior to keep the snugfit from condensation problems and also provides additional warmth. The hammock disperses any condensation I may have, which evidently isn't much when I look for it or feel for it in the morning. I have altered my Snugfit with shock cords that help keep it tight to the hammock. Top it off with a JRB overstuffed Hudson River...I'm good so far in the low 20's.

[angrysparrow]

On a single layer hammock, I think I'd use it inside the hammock.

I've used a 1/4" pad with my SnugFit on several occasions. In cold weather, I use a netless double layer Warbonnet Traveler and the pad goes between the layers, with the underquilt below. (It's called the Traveler now, anyway. I've used it for the last 18 months before it had a name.)

[2Questions]

[QUOTE=angrysparrow;90136]On a single layer hammock, I think I'd use it inside the hammock.
QUOTE]

I move around some and found that it was a pain trying to stay on the pad. With the pad between the hammock and Snugfit, I don't seem to have those issues.

[Youngblood]

With the upcoming winter hang almost upon us, I'm looking at options to stay warm and comfy for the trip. One thing that I plan on taking with me is my SnugFit along with a CCF pad. For those who use a CCF pad and and underquilt together in very cold weather, where do you put your pad? Do you put it directly under you between you and the hammock or sandwich it between the hammock and the underquilt? This is going to be my first really cold weather hang, so I want to get it right. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

It would be great if you had a pad that would fit between the hammock and SnugFit without adversely affecting the fit of the SnugFit. I didn't feel like I was able to accomplish that when I tried with my 1/4 inch pad and thought it didn't work, but I didn't spend a lot of effort on it either and might have missed out on how to do it. You need to be careful when you do that because if you create gaps because the suspension system can't hold the pads snug against the underside of the hammock you may do more harm than good. A vapor barrier works great in that location and I got a 10F improvement with just plastic or silnylon used as a vapor barrier-- the suspension system is strong enough to handle that.

Like others mentioned, a closed cell foam pad (ccf) is also a vapor barrier so you don't need a separate vapor barrier when you use a ccf pad with an underquilt. When you use a ccf pad with a breathable underquilt it is one of those special cases where the resultant appears greater than the sum of the parts. That is because the vapor barrier properties of the ccf pad affects how the breathable underquilt performs and sometimes we forget to add that in.

When you are not producing insensible perspiration because of a vapor barrier, you become a more efficient furnace, or heater, and you get more degrees per inch of insulation from the breathable underquilt. It takes energy for your body to generate insensible perspiration but it only generates insensible perspiration to keep your skin moist and pliable. A vapor barrier traps previously generated insensible perspiration to keep the skin moist and when the body senses the skin is moist enough it stops producing it. The tradeoff is that when you are a bit too warm with your insulation, it doesn't handle sweat as easily with a vapor barrier so it is easier to over heat. In general, breathable insulation has a greater comfort range than non-breathable insulation. Ideally, you would want you insulation to be more breathable when it is warmer and less breathable when it is cooler. By including or excluding a vapor barrier at will, you can extend the comfort range on the cool end when you need to. That is the best of both worlds.

[6 feet over]

I don't know just how cold you're expecting, but I've gotten down below freezing with a cheap pad inside my Clark (without a SPE) and no UQ. I wore thermal bottom & top, & a wool hat. I used a zero degree synthetic mummy bag, but had the zipper unzipped most of the time, as I was plenty warm. (I'm sure I could have used it quilt style, but that thought never occurred to me until I read it here)

If you're going to add an UQ to that type of set up, I have to believe you'll be good down to very low temps. I didn't have any back sweat issues, so I'd think you could have your pad inside and be good to go!

I'll be looking at the old 'hot water bottle' trick to help pre-heat my hammock on my next cold weather hang. Seems like an easy way to lower my bottom temp comfort zone.

[Hooch]

A vapor barrier works great in that location and I got a 10F improvement with just plastic or silnylon used as a vapor barrier-- the suspension system is strong enough to handle that.

Youngblood, do you think I'd be better off using a piece of Tyvek as a vapor barrier and just skipping the CCF pad altogether?

[Youngblood]

Youngblood, do you think I'd be better off using a piece of Tyvek as a vapor barrier and just skipping the CCF pad altogether?

Jay, I did not think Tyvek was a true vapor barrier. However, Tyvek will still slow down an vapor movement and might work just fine in that application. Heck, something that isn't a true vapor barrier might work better, I don't know for sure. But back to your question about Tyvek as a vapor barrier versus a ccf pad, the ccf pad is definitely capable of keeping you warmer than just a vapor barrier since a ccf pad is a vapor barrier with insulation. But you might need it inside the hammock with you to get everything to work as it should. To be safe, I would assume you need it inside the hammock with you unless you prove to yourself that it works okay between the hammock and the SnugFit.

What all you will need depends on how cold it gets. For me, in my silk long johns I am okay to about 30F in dry, windless conditions with my SnugFit and have been fine to 20F when I added either a plastic vapor barrier or a silnylon one. That is pretty comfy sleeping as you are not confined with a lot of clothes. However, being warm is required to be comfy too and below 20F or in windy conditions and or damp conditions bundling up it jackets and other clothing is appropriate as is adding other insulation like ccf pads. Don't forget that rain suits make pretty good vapor barriers themselves. They aren't that comfortable to sleep in but they can make the difference between being warm or cold.