Hypothermia

[michigandave]

Thanks for that link. Good article and also leads to more interesting reading.

Links to articles like that one, and to this thread, should be automatically added to any discussion where folks get to boasting about how light their packs are!
Leaving that extra 'stuff' like warmer clothes, etc. at home is an accident waiting to happen, anywhere it can get cool and wet.

"Thrashed rain jacket" says it all. My goretex OR raincoat is always in my pack, no matter what the forecast or season is.

[Doctari]

"Thrashed rain jacket" says it all. My goretex OR raincoat is always in my pack, no matter what the forecast or season is.

TOO TRUE! Even if I was to hike in Death Valley in summer, during "The worst drought in the area in history" my rain jacket would be with me.

After having SERIOUS hypothermia 3 times (Yea, I should learn, Oh well!) with EVERY time being during rain, with the first 2 times being compounded by poor rain gear, I'll never go without!

Am I being paranoid? YES I AM! You should be too!! Remember the old saying: It's all mind over matter; The weather don't mind & you don't matter!
The cold / rain doesn't care if you think it's not supposed to rain so left your rain gear at home! It doesn't care if you didn't want to spend the money on a good rain jacket but decided a trash bag was "enough".
AND, as I found out this year, it doesn't give a D**N if you have years of experience in cold weather hiking & camping, if you look away for just a second it WILL sneak up & get you!!

Remember from my initial post, this year was the first time I have had Hypothermia with temps below freezing, the coldest EVER before was 48 degrees*! Not saying you won't get hypothermia in cold weather, but the fact is if you are wet, no matter why#, your chances of getting hypothermia go up exponentially, drop the temp to below freezing & (as we were) you are nearly as wet as you can get,,,, well, you do the "math".

I'll not quit being out in extremely cold or wet weather!! But I will pay closer attention to ME and my companions. Although, to my admittedly fuzzy memory, none of us got in real trouble till nearly at the Wise shelter. But that may just mean I couldn't see it because I was impaired. And I was IMPAIRED!!



*When dry, I wear shorts & tee shirt to 35, & have complained of being too warm.
#A few years ago, a Navy Seal candidate died in Florida, I think the temp never got below 65, (I can't find info on it now, may have been a minimum as high as 85.) but he had been constantly wet for days(?).

[TheFirePitGuy]

Doc, without reading all ten pages of this thread, I want to ask you a question about hypothermia. Were you aware that you were becoming hypothermic at that time or is hypothermia a downward spiral that only others were able to detect in you?

[Doctari]

Downward Spiral, yes! And I have NEVER noticed it in myself, You just do not have the mental ability to see it. How I saw it in ME last time was by looking at Dave & Scott, as we had similar gear, & the same experience that day, since they looked like c**p, I figured so did I. I was right! Dave & Scott both said "I felt fine, you guys looked AWFUL!"
FYI: I'm a Paramedic with over 32 years experience & training, with MANY classes on weather related injuries, so I KNOW how to recognize Hypothermia & etc. AND, 2 previous experiences with Hypothermia. Yet, while I'm experiencing it, I CAN NOT SEE IT IN ME!

The first two times:
#1 - I happened to get to my lunch destination only mildly impaired, Low temp that day was 65, & got into dry clothing, THEN I noticed I was cold, so got in sleeping bag, THEN I realized I was hypothermic. The only thing that saved me that day was the plan on lunch at the shelter,, total luck!
#2 - Left Hot Springs, was having a good, if tiring day, kept getting tireder & tireder as I hiked. Had seen 3 people that day, last one 5 hours ago. Was only 3 miles from my end of day, then I heard someone talking, as I was tired & rather lonely (In hind sight: Lonely should have been clue #1) I decided to stop, take a break & visit. [SO you know, I tear up every time I tell this story] As I was chatting with someone (a guy, no idea of name or anything else) He calmly said "You NEED to stay here tonight!" Me: "No, I only got 3 miles to go" or at least that's what I meant to say,, may have said Mixelplix. He said, "NO, you need to set up camp & stop here, now!" I think I may have argued with him some more, not sure, then I agreed. "Can you set up your tent?" , , , , , , , , , {OMG, NO!} so I shook my head no, {OH WOW, I'M IN SERIOUS TROUBLE!!} "Can you tell us how to set up your tent?" shook head yes, "Where is your tent?" so I handed it to them.
OK, as I am talking to HIM, the others (maybe 4, maybe 10, I have NO way to know, I was that bad!) slowly surrounded me, yes, I noticed but then again I didn't. The next day, "We were NOT going to let you leave!!!!"
Anyway, somehow, they set up my tent (again, may have said Mixelplix), got my sleeping bag out & (I think) got me in my tent. I slowly warmed up, may have been 5 minutes, may have been an hour or more. Then I got to the point of being warm, Fixed dinner, ate & went to sleep. All better next morning, but only did 3 miles that day. They may have checked on me periodically, I do not know!

SO, in summation: If you got Hypothermia, YOU can't see it. You do NOT have the mental ability. Right now a rock can out think you, a VERY tiny rock is smarter than you are right now. Depending on temp, my first two times was over 45 degrees, hypothermia can be very very slow.
All three times for me, I felt great the entire time. Even wading through a near freezing 18" deep 40' wide river was FUN to me. Yes, seriously!
By then, I knew I was running for my life, didn't make it any less fun! Yep, I'm weird, & I'm OK with that.

Hope this helps!

[Chug]

A Good reading on Hypothermia and a real world event. good info, to take to heart!!!!.


Hope the link works.. if not.. will Cut & Paste the Article.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...etting-Go.html
The cold hard facts of freezing to death

[Doctari]

A Good reading on Hypothermia and a real world event. good info, to take to heart!.



Hope the link works.. if not.. will Cut & Paste the Article.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...etting-Go.html
The cold hard facts of freezing to death

WOW! Good article! Should be REQUIRED reading for anyone going out in cold weather!
I really liked the line: "The process begins even before you leave the car."
If you are "Nice & warm" in your car, maybe you are just a bit too warm & are actually sweating, sweat = wet, Wet = cold!
Please note, our "hero" is unable to perform the simple mental task of following his own tracks back to his car. And from my reading, he wasn't "that bad" yet as he is still able to open & read a map!

[Chug]

Yes, its a good article.. Meant to post it up when it came out.. but got side tracked... should be a sticky, info read for anyone going outside..

[TheFirePitGuy]

Downward Spiral, yes! And I have NEVER noticed it in myself, You just do not have the mental ability to see it. How I saw it in ME last time was by looking at Dave & Scott, as we had similar gear, & the same experience that day, since they looked like c**p, I figured so did I. I was right! Dave & Scott both said "I felt fine, you guys looked AWFUL!"
FYI: I'm a Paramedic with over 32 years experience & training, with MANY classes on weather related injuries, so I KNOW how to recognize Hypothermia & etc. AND, 2 previous experiences with Hypothermia. Yet, while I'm experiencing it, I CAN NOT SEE IT IN ME!

As I gotten older I purposely hike slower so that I don't overheat. I just don't like getting wet from sweat or rain especially in cool weather...yet, until I read your post, I've never seriously given hypothermia a second thought. Makes me wonder how lucky I've been in the past.

I don't think I'll ever forget your words.
THANK YOU

[Wanderlost]

A Good reading on Hypothermia and a real world event. good info, to take to heart!!!!.


Hope the link works.. if not.. will Cut & Paste the Article.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...etting-Go.html
The cold hard facts of freezing to death

That's an excellent article. It definitely puts it in pespective. When I went through survival in Washinton state, the one thing they truly impressed upon us is prevention. They taught us how to identify hypothermia in others, but stressed beyond measure that by the time you recognize it in yourself it's already too late. Part of the training was having us underdressed outside for hours (supervised by flight surgeons of course) so that we could recognize the onset of hypothermia in others and the shivers in ourselves. Scariest training ever....but it's always stuck with me.

[outbackpacker3]

I had kinda seen this mentioned but not exactly what I was thinking of chug said if you lose dexterity in your hands it's a sign of hypothermia which is true but once you notice your extremities getting cold that's an even earlier sign. it means you body is shunting all the warm blood to your head a torso to try to preserve those areas longest if you notice cold hands or feet start treating yourself for hypothermia. You can often ward it off this way.

As they say and ounce of prevention.....

Btw doctari glad you made it out too