Noob amsteel question

[av8r1]

Okay, I've ruled out amsteel as a viable suspension material. Wish I knew that before I bought some.

If it can't hold knots, I can't trust my weight to it. It's as simple as that. Knots or splices, I fear the cord now.

This new information raises way too many questions: what if it gets tangled in the stuff sack and ties itself in a knot or two? Do the knots only weaken this stuff while they're tied, or do they cause damage? What if you accidentally close it in a car door? If it's so slippery, what keeps the splices from coming loose? If it's so slippery, what keeps it from slipping off of the hammock? If knots are so bad for it, how are you supposed to attach it to anything using a fixed eye?

Ten years as a pilot, flight instructor and aircraft mechanic has taught me that if you feel uneasy about taking a machine off the ground for any reason at all, DON'T.

I might just stay the hell away from hammocks.

[Resqsarge03]

AV....relax and take a deep breath. I'd tell you to lie in you hammock awhile and then have another go at the amsteel thing...but...LOL
Amsteel is super strong. It does not like knots but it likes splices. In fact, it is regularly used on vehicle winches and the hook end is spliced onto it.
I have never had it try to tie itself into knots after its been stuffed into a sack. It is too slippery to accidentally tie itself and even if it did it would be very easy to untie. Like any product, it has its limitations and one of the biggest limitations besides its physical properties is how the user handles it.
Folks around here love whoopies but if it is not for you there are lots of viable options. If you are concerned you might not be able to splice or implement whoopie sling usage then you are the best judge of that.
I was leery of them at first, just like I was pretty nervous about trusting my life to that half inch rescue rope they threw over the edge of the fire tower and said, "Alright, off you go!" but I learned to trust my equipment as long as I chose wisely and took care of it.
You will be fine.
There is a ton of information on this site and probably more than a hundred posts about suspension alternatives. And as you have found-there is a whole section just for discussing it.
Do a search, check the DIY sections, and research via YouTube. I learned to splice by tutorials here and on YouTube.
If you are still not sure, go to a group hang or link up with a local hammocker. Seeing is believing and there is nothing like 1 on 1 to teach splicing.
-Sarge

[SilvrSurfr]

Okay, I've ruled out amsteel as a viable suspension material. Wish I knew that before I bought some.

If it can't hold knots, I can't trust my weight to it. It's as simple as that. Knots or splices, I fear the cord now.

That's a bit of an overreaction. It's like an aircraft mechanic saying, "I don't want to follow the manufacturer's suggested maintenance schedule for aircraft. If I can't just fly when I want without maintenance, then I won't fly." Or somebody who buys a car but then gets rid of it because it won't fly like the one in the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang movie. Or somebody who says, "That's it. I'm going back to forks because I can't lift a 2-lb. pot roast out of my crock pot with chopsticks." Chopsticks weren't designed for that. Use a fork for that pot roast.

Amsteel is a highly specialized cord that works well for any application needing high strength and light weight. The manufacturer recommends splices, not knots, yet you don't seem to want to heed the manufacturer's recommendations. Plenty of us are using whoopie slings, continuous loops, UCRs and all sorts of spliced Amsteel to support our weight. I have yet to hear of a whoopie sling failure because most of us would replace the Amsteel if it showed signs of wear.

Some folks don't trust the 1600-lb breaking strength of 7/64' Amsteel and instead use 1/8" Amsteel with 2500 lb. breaking strength. Personally, I always lock stitch my splices just to be sure they hold because it makes me feel better.

Ten years as a pilot, flight instructor and aircraft mechanic has taught me that if you feel uneasy about taking a machine off the ground for any reason at all, DON'T.

Once again not a very valid comparison. If Amsteel fails on your hammock, you fall 18 inches. If the plane fails, you die. Big difference.

Plenty of rope out there like climbing rope that you can tie knots in until the cows come home. Most hammockers don't use that rope because it's heavy. Plenty of hammock manufacturers out there use rope for suspension, but it could not be construed as a lightweight suspension.

[Ratdog]

I'm 300lbs + and get in and out of my hammock almost everday, showing it no mercy, swinging, dropping in, dogs jumping in with me.

My bro in law makes me look like a little fella and has done the same thing.

I use some 7/64ths cottage vendor bought whoopies and some continuous loops in the sewn end channel or whipped end, dyneema for an adjustable ridgeline strung e string tight and have no worries or failures to report.

Know the gear, trust the gear. Do your job of understanding and maintaining and it will do it's job. That's how I had the confidence to jump out of perfectly good airplanes in flight.

[Mouseskowitz]

Okay, I've ruled out amsteel as a viable suspension material. Wish I knew that before I bought some.

If it can't hold knots, I can't trust my weight to it. It's as simple as that. Knots or splices, I fear the cord now.

This new information raises way too many questions: what if it gets tangled in the stuff sack and ties itself in a knot or two? Do the knots only weaken this stuff while they're tied, or do they cause damage? What if you accidentally close it in a car door? If it's so slippery, what keeps the splices from coming loose? If it's so slippery, what keeps it from slipping off of the hammock? If knots are so bad for it, how are you supposed to attach it to anything using a fixed eye?

Ten years as a pilot, flight instructor and aircraft mechanic has taught me that if you feel uneasy about taking a machine off the ground for any reason at all, DON'T.

I might just stay the hell away from hammocks.

The reason I posted the article mentioned in the other thread is not to say not to use knots, but to inform people what happens when they do. As a flight instructor you are more aware than most of us the importance of knowing the limitations of your equipment. That is my point. It just happens that Amsteel is degraded more than your average rope by knots.

On the point of attachment to the hammock, most of us use a lark's head (cow hitch). With that knot your 7/64 Amsteel will still hold 960lb. If that isn't strong enough for you, as others have said, get something stronger.

When it comes to splicing it is slightly intimidating, but it's actually pretty fun once you figure it out. There are a ton of step by step guides out there. I watched a couple of videos and used the instructions found on the manufacturer's website. Amsteel is a 12-strand braid (7/64 is actually 8-strand) and you want to look at the Class II spices.

If you can't bring yourself to splice your first set, get some from a cottage vendor. Some if not all of them carry liability insurance on their products. If this stuff wasn't safe I'm sure not company would touch that policy. If decide you don't like whoopies try ring buckles and straps. They're easier, just a little heavier.

Please don't let our debates about the finer points of materials run you off. It's mainly academic so that people understand the properties and limitations of their gear.

[av8r1]

Silvrsurfr, have you ever talked to an A&P? Most of them aren't pilots. Ask one why, I'll guarantee his response will be, "Because I know what holds these things together." Doesn't matter that, as he spoke, tens of thousands of people are safely cruising through the sky.

Amsteel is out of the question. I have no use for a material that has to be treated in one very specific way. If I can't find a material that I trust and am willing to lug around, I won't hang. Simple as that.

Now, I'm off to melt 30 feet of amsteel.

[SilvrSurfr]

Silvrsurfr, have you ever talked to an A&P? Most of them aren't pilots. Ask one why, I'll guarantee his response will be, "Because I know what holds these things together." Doesn't matter that, as he spoke, tens of thousands of people are safely cruising through the sky.

Amsteel is out of the question. I have no use for a material that has to be treated in one very specific way. If I can't find a material that I trust and am willing to lug around, I won't hang. Simple as that.

Now, I'm off to melt 30 feet of amsteel.

What's an A&P?

Regardless, your analogy doesn't remotely seem related to Amsteel as a suspension system. You won't find a lighter, stronger hammock suspension than Amsteel anywhere (well, except for Dynaglide).Your only other choices are straps and rope, though it sounds like you want a general purpose utility cord that works well with knots, something like 550 paracord. However, paracord blows as a hammock suspension because it stretches (up to 30%), and its breaking strength is 550 lbs.

Tell ya what, I'll be glad to trade you my barely used Hennessy rope suspension for your 30 ft. of Amsteel! I ditched the rope for whoopies not long after purchase. This is high-quality, 1600 lbs. breaking strength, polyester rope! Act now, don't delay. This is a limited-time offer!

Yet you don't trust splicing. Splicing is easy, and when a splice retains up to 80% or 90% of breaking strength, it's a no-brainer for me compared to knots. Face it, splicing rope is safer than knots. That's something you can trust.

[DemostiX]

I'd tell OP to go ahead and use knots in the Amsteel. Just de-rate it by 50%.
That means he'll be paying $.50 - $.60 /ft.

Or, he can use standard cordage, same as everyone on the water uses.
Clark hammocks come with twisted polyprop cord, and the company is still in business.

Don't trust rope, but still want to be up off the ground? The old Army cot will do, or there must be crazy-cheap Chinese sourced ones. (Crazy cheap, I expect, considering the $8 landed Wallmart price for those fold-up aluminum/polyprop fabric, and plastic fitting jobs that pack into a travel quiver.)

[av8r1]

A&P = Airframe and Powerplant mechanic.

Here's the thing. My concept uses lark's head knots (or prussiks) to make all attachments. Which is how spliced eyes are attached to anything. So how is my version weaker?

[Bubba]

...

Amsteel is out of the question. I have no use for a material that has to be treated in one very specific way. If I can't find a material that I trust and am willing to lug around, I won't hang. Simple as that.

Now, I'm off to melt 30 feet of amsteel.

Please do not take my questions the wrong way, I mean no disrespect at all. I would think your experiences would give you an appreciation of something that has to be used in one very specific way. With your attention to detail and procedures as a pilot and your mechanical background, why is splicing amsteel such a difficult thing to consider?

Sell the amsteel if you don't want it. Someone will buy it for sure.

Bottom line for me is if its not for you that's cool. Hang your own hang as we say.