kammok not safe

**jbrescue** · 05-26-2013, 08:34

Not only are they no longer using these crap biners, the new ones are CE rated. As a rope rescue and rope gear sales guy, I can tell you there is a lot of sub standard gear out there. Be careful and make sure you get named brand hardware that has the appropriate ratings. Also, if your hardware takes a hard impact, there is a chance that you have stress fractured the metal. Be careful what you use.

**Tredge** · 05-26-2013, 09:24

The gate was closed - they are spring loaded and close automatically (unless its bent like these)
you can see where the gate actually snapped off the tip of one biner when it failed.

Good to hear they are using different biners now. I think they should replace any out there like the ones I had.

The hammock is top quality imo. Just these biners are the problem.

Pic comparing size.

**jons4real** · 05-26-2013, 09:38

Thanks for sharing, I always knew that carabiners were susceptible to failure I just never seen one.

**Bubba** · 05-26-2013, 09:47

Are you going to contact Kammock? They should definitely replace them. IIRC before Kammock came out they had a discussion thread here and the issue of the biners' weight ratings was brought up.

**HURTHEART** · 05-26-2013, 12:16

INTERESTING,
My first hammock was an ENO, I did not like to look of the Carbiners, they had some corrosion (bought the hammock at the coast). I contacted ENO, they were very nice and sent me a new shinny biner with the rating stamped on the device. Top rate customer service.

Before I purchased my second hammock, I read through Hennessy's Web Site. Tom Hennessy pointed out that reputable mfg. of biners would not sell them to his company for fear someone might have a biner fail, by putting it on the suspension incorrectly. That little fact stared me thinking about all the different biners on the market. I went to a Climbing Specialty Shop to buy the biners for my Hennessy hammock. They are not pretty, but I trust them.

**OfftheGround** · 05-26-2013, 13:08

Hi Tredge,

We just received your email over the weekend, and came across the thread in hammock forums.

Thanks so much for bringing this to my swift attention, and I am so sorry to hear of this. We offer a lifetime warranty on all our products and can replace this with our newest carabiners & slings quickly.

These carabiners have gone through testing, are rated for 250 pounds a piece, and we tested for much higher weight ratings. We have since upgrade our suspension (Kanga Claw carabiners & Racer Slings), and we will send these as a replacement.

I am so glad to hear that you are well, and we will replace this immediately. Please send your address, and we will ship the new carabiners with a return label so we can examine these properly.

Thanks for your support and allowing us the opportunity to make this right.

Equip & Inspire

Greg

**angrysparrow** · 05-26-2013, 13:59

Originally Posted by OfftheGround

These carabiners have gone through testing, are rated for 250 pounds a piece, and we tested for much higher weight ratings.

The problem is that 250 pounds isn't even remotely strong enough for a hammock suspension component, no matter the weight of the occupant.

The realities of the geometry of hanging angles, and the forces generated (both static and dynamic) mean that you should have a far far higher component strength threshold, and that's before you even factor in safety margins. It will be amazing if you don't see many more of these failures going forward. Hopefully nobody will be seriously injured because of it.

GT · 05-26-2013, 14:34

Originally Posted by angrysparrow

The problem is that 250 pounds isn't even remotely strong enough for a hammock suspension component, no matter the weight of the occupant.

The realities of the geometry of hanging angles, and the forces generated (both static and dynamic) mean that you should have a far far higher component strength threshold, and that's before you even factor in safety margins. It will be amazing if you don't see many more of these failures going forward. Hopefully nobody will be seriously injured because of it.

Yah! A good practice to note is that hardware should safely be used at 1/3rd the breaking strength. A/K/A the "Safe Working Load" So this biner is actually only safe at 83 pounds

**OfftheGround** · 05-26-2013, 14:54

Originally Posted by angrysparrow

The problem is that 250 pounds isn't even remotely strong enough for a hammock suspension component, no matter the weight of the occupant.

The realities of the geometry of hanging angles, and the forces generated (both static and dynamic) mean that you should have a far far higher component strength threshold, and that's before you even factor in safety margins. It will be amazing if you don't see many more of these failures going forward. Hopefully nobody will be seriously injured because of it.

Thanks AngrySparrow and very true. However the 250 pounds is only what we rate the carabiners for liability/safety reasons. The testing is for over 2,500 pounds. The average customer doesn't understand the complexities of static and dynamic force so we simplified the rating system for the customer (other manufacturers have set that precedent in the market before us). We are looking into any systematic deficiencies and will absolutely put quality/safety at the forefront of our decisions moving forward.