Just my opinion but just replace your carabiners with nacrabiners.
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ad.php?t=16987
I use a SLS( single line suspension) and it has been pointed out by my engineer friend, MADD777, this is the most loaded suspension system we use to hang a hammock. I have had a failure of what I thought were well stitched tree huggers but not the nacrabiners. And it will save a few grams of weight. plus they are fun to make.
Most of us end up poorer here but richer for being here. Olddog, Fulltime hammocker, 365 nights a year.
If you read test results for climbing biners it says the wire gate is much safer that a solid gate because they are less likely to instantaneously open and close if the biner hits something during a fall. That is because the wire gate has less mass to transmit energy when the biner gets banged against a rock. A solid gate is more likely to pop open if things take a hit. Therefore wire gate biners have a higher safety rating. I know this may not apply to hammocking but, just say’n.Originally Posted by jbrescue
Not true. As OfftheGround stated, these were tested to higher loads and 250lbs.
The load rating of a carabiner is not equal to the breaking strength - there is a safety factor built in. In a non-climbing rated biner I would guess they target a small SF of 1.3 or so (fairly standard) to the YIELD point, NOT the breaking point. (Yeild point is where permanent deformation starts to occur, breaking point is when it actually breaks).
The failure of these biner's is most likely due to a tighter hang angle than 30* - not implying these carabiners were appropriately speced for the application however, or the setup was negligent. My point is, I fully expect these biners would hold a load of 250lbs without breaking, until they fatigued and failed (also possible in this application).
Teewee, are the differences in marking based on where the design is from or where the manufacturing occurs? I wasn't aware that there was a difference - which is good to know!
From talking with Kammok a few months ago, I learned that they actually designed the biners themselves. They reportedly had one that they were testing last year (which did not have the lower gate line lock) and had a sample out at a vendor table. It up and walked off, only to be found on TTTM's website a few months later. (note the similarity (square bottom, extra thick rib): http://www.ticketothemoon.com/en/carabiner.html
http://www.kammok.com/Kammok-Kanga-C.../kc-010053.htm
What I was told was that they were seeking a patent on the latest design to make sure that it doesn't happen again.
The place of design or manufacture is irrelevant for European CE. CE stands for Conformité Européenne, or European Conformity in french (yuk). All products that are made in or enter the european economic zone are required to conform to specific legislation if applicable.
I know quite a bunch about it actually because I used to work as a mechanical designer for machine-building industry in Belgium, which is in europe obviously.
For some types of product the legislation isn't as tight, like the low-voltage directive, the machinery directive, ... The manufacturer just has to make sure the product they make meets the EHSR's (Essential Health & Safety Requirements) by design, but the needs aren't formulated explicitly in the directives (like "Where, in the case of self-propelled machinery with a ride-on driver, operator(s) or other person(s), there is a
risk of rolling or tipping over, the machinery must be fitted with an appropriate protective structure, unless this increases the risk." -Machinery Directive). They're kind of vague.Or at least open to a certain amount of interpretation, if a manufacturer thinks a guardplate for a machine is tight enough but a customer lost his fingers because the gap they thought was tight enough wasn't tight enough for mr slenderfingers, the sh*tstorm starts obviously... The solution is to follow industry norms (like DIN, ISO, ANSI, ...) and adjust the design where needed, that gives you a lot of leverage in a legal case, and they just make you machine objectively safer because they are mostly based on research. After all that, the manufacturer compiles a declaration of conformity with the file explicating how the machine meets all EHSR's, they then mark each individual machine with the correct CE marking and start selling it.
The more critical/dangerous product classes however are governed by "notified bodies". This is the case for implants, personal protective equipment (like climbing gear, which load bearing carabiners fall under), explosive devices, pressure equipment, ... The notified body is an external auditor watching over all steps of production to make sure that quality control and therefor consumer safety can be guaranteed. Only when they have fully approved the production process and audited the infrastructure, the production can start, and the product bears a CE mark with the number code of the notified body.
In summary: CE is required for products that are made or imported inside the european economic zone only, but as they're a good rule of thumb for safety, they're popular worldwide. They provide a kind-of safety for some product classes and a guaranteed safety for more critical product classes.
What is this "China Export" marking then? Nothing. It means its made in china and it hasn't been designed to meet any EHSR's, they just slap it on there because it looks like the proper CE, to fool customers. However, if its a product that falls under a real european directive and its marked as china export, its punishable by law to sell it inside Europe.
These biners bear a China Export mark but they also show "1019", the code of a notified body in Czech Republik.
Two options of what happened here.
1) The designer/manufacter unwittingly designed the wrong logo to be placed on the product and the notified body made a huge mistake by overlooking it, in which case we can start worrying over what else they overlooked.
2) The notified body have never heard of this biner and the whole thing is a fraud.
Recieved the replacement carabiners today.
these look much stronger.
CE 1019 22kN stamped on the outside.
Greg also sent replacement straps and a new hammock.
The new hammock was unexpected and I think thats above and beyond. Greg didnt have to do that but I appreciate it.
I consider this handled although anyone with the old biners should get new ones imo.
My wife said she never saw me look more suprised than the moment I sat on the ground realizing what had occured. I would have not believed someone else had they told me it happend to them.
Recieved the replacement carabiners today.
these look much stronger.
CE 1019 22kN stamped on the outside.
Greg also sent replacement straps and a new hammock.
The new hammock was unexpected and I think thats above and beyond. Greg didnt have to do that but I appreciate it.
I consider this handled although anyone with the old biners should get new ones imo.
My wife said she never saw me look more suprised than the moment I sat on the ground realizing what had occured. I would have not believed someone else had they told me it happend to them.
Nice to hear they really tried to do right by you!!
So, does this mean that a European Auditor has to be present in China or wherever the manufacturing is taking place, or is it more of a paper check to make sure that you have all of your documents in place?
Are you certain of this? i was under the impression that BD switched most of their quickdraw line to wiregates precisely because the wire gate is stronger (less gate flutter too i hear).
regular gates are made of aluminum, a wire gate is made of steel wire(just the gate, not the whole biner)
Fairly certain i've seen biners with that basic shape in the industrial rigging industry before. That extra gate at the bottom is not new either i don't think, it's used to limit crossloading.
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