The truth about dynaglide and safety...

[Cranky Bear]

1/8 in amsteel will give an adequate safety factor. I'd go bigger if I thought I needed it. SilvrSurfr and others already spelled it out for you. We hammock hang to get to use places where a tent is often not reasonable. That means roots and/or rocks underneath. That is why we talk about climbing rated hardware and 5:1 to 10:1 range safety factors. Those are the life threatening range minimums.

There have been a handful of posts about folks falling due to suspension problems. There have also been a lot of comments about everybody falls sooner or later. That seems to indicate most of us have fallen at some point. I know I have. The test stand where I play in the yard has 3 bags of ground tire mulch still in the bags in the drop zone for that reason.

Some of what I have done is also why I bring up issues like this when folks who obviously do not understand the problem try to look at a book or table and figure that a 250 lb person must be OK in a hammock suspended with 1000 lb line. That really tells me two things. First is that they do not really understand the complex loads they are dealing with. Second, that they will end up on the ground sooner or later. Probably sooner and at a very inconvenient time.

Interesting, no sorry no one spelled it out. Not a single person said when my life depends on it I'll hang from ???

Only two people have said it was "life or death" when related to hanging in a hammock specifically talking about suspension. Interesting that a number can be associated with one's life. Which you failed to answer, it was not said I use ____ for my suspension. For the record I weigh 187# now (lost some weight, yea man) and I hang from Dynaglide, at my heaviest I weighted 200# and still hung from dynaglide, hasn't dropped me yet, oh and I was hanging from the same set for 3 years of constant use, so at what point will they drop me? Sooner or later? Funny I don't have a crystal ball to tell me when my time is up.

But this is a subject that gets far too personal and is better left off the forum, JMHO.

Also interesting that you have had a suspension fail, was it webbing? Amsteel? 7/64? 1/8? Dynaglide? Vectran? Paracord? Fishing line? . Any particular reason it wasn't posted here https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ad.php?t=69601 ???? What was the reason it broke? What were the factors involved? It is information like this that would help the HF community to make better informed decisions from gather all "real world" accounts and not just numbers as you have put it.

According to my math (which is horrible to say the least) there were only "Four" whom claimed in that thread to have a suspension failure, three were webbing. And the other 1/8" vectran and this was because of hanging inappropriately (hung suspension too tight). But not a "single" dynaglide or amsteel failure was posted.

I think threads like this help others to understand, and teach others the right thing is to make an informed and appropriate choice for them. As far as books are concerned, I believe that "The Ultimate Hang" (not saying you mentioned it, but it is the "ONLY" book that has information in it like what is being discussed in this thread) is a fantastic book, with tons of helpful and useful information and illustrations, the likes of which has "NEVER" been done before.

As Sgt.Rock said in his video, if you hang off dynaglide or do as he does "Your Gonna Die", apparently some missed the humor there. But also missed the finer points of that video.

The places that one chooses to hang is up for too much debate, as I have seen some stupid spots chosen. If one chooses to hang over a cliff, or huge sharp razor (or knife) like rocks then that was "their" choice, a worser (I know not word, but I like it, as it sounds funny) one than choosing to use a line that is still rated much higher than the loads they will put on it.

Bottom line is a 200# person has a 5:1 safety rating by using dynaglide, now whether one chooses to use a 10:1, 5:1, 3:1 or 1:1 is their choice, and certainly does not mean they are destined for "Death".

[Cranky Bear]

I was wondering when you were gonna chime in yoda, seeing as you had the thread about weight ratings in general. A thread I enjoyed by the way, in case you couldn't tell I have the same thought process as you that hammock hanging is not a life or death thing(if it was, we would all be using canvas for our hammock bodies and static climbing rope for our suspensions to ensure no chance of failure regardless of hanging conditions). I'm planing on making a DIY hammock using 1.1 ripstop and dynaglide, even though I'm over 200 pounds. I'll make sure and do my testing over a safe spot and worst case is I find out I'm too fat and switch to a more robust system.

Yea I was trying to stay out of it as the last one got pretty heated and I got some pretty harsh replies sent to me. Well either way I found your information interesting, and wonder where you got your numbers from, manufacturer listing? Not that I am saying you made something up, just that some will question everything you say or do and giving the link to the site's will help overt that from happening somewhat. You will always have extremists, and those who give their views almost pushy, say overboard somewhat, but that is the beauty of the internet, and I feel that most here on HF do it with compassion rather than, well I'll not go there.

All of this is great, but my question is what do I stand to save in weight by going to Dynaglide over Amsteel 7/64? Ounces? Grams?

Yes sometimes it is all about grams or ounces. But let me ask you something, how many grams = a ounce? Then how many ounces = a pound?

If one were to take a few ounces here, and a few grams there, eventually the pack weight drops. Using Dynaglide falls on the same pretense as Cuben. Why use cuben when sil nylon worked? Or even canvas?

Some stop at a certain point as they are happy with what they have, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this mentality. Some choose to see how far they can go till the point that they are happy.

[MrClean417]

I have not had a failure with 7/64 amsteel. I hang every night from it. I found when I made my loops last year that I was just a tad long and dumbly made a simple overhand knot in each line that made it perfect AAAAAANNNND forgot about it. I went to make similar lengthed links for my Turtledog stand so I can just swap hammocks and low and behold, the knots were fuzzy looking. 6 months of an ever tightening knot, I don't know when or if it was ever going to fail but replaced it. But that every night stuff is high usage not "I camp as often as possible" though my application, save silly knots, is probably less wear per use. There isn't any snaggly trees involved in my bedroom.

Probably could get by with the thinner stuff, but I don't see a big enough weight savings to cut down on something I know is safe, even with a stupid knot in it. Whatever method you use make sure and check your suspension often for wear.

As far as at what point does the strength of the rope become compromised I believe that its a radius smaller then the rope diameter. Larks heads around the hammok, larks heading around my carabiners are larger diameter then the 7/64ths amsteel, doesn't cause a loss in strength in the rope. Shoot the hammok knot is 5-10 times larger then the rope.

Whatever really, blah blah blah. Go save your grams, what do I know? Update us on your experience, maybe since your championing the idea you could photograph and make a log for us? It already stretches my families mind when I'm in the hammock with my wife and grandchildren with a stupid 45 pounds dog jumping in while we're all suspended by that thin little noodle. Can't imagine what they'd think hanging from spaghetti.

[Cranky Bear]

Actually MrClean417 I think the hanging everyday (or night) you would/should see a failure of the line from normal use before others whom don't hang everyday (or night). You make a good point of the abrasion from outdoor use vs. indoor. Which make me wonder if the webbing is the weakest link and we have been focusing our ill temperedness (yea I know not a word, but it sounds cool, right????) at the wrong part of the suspension? Since the webbing contacts the tree and not the whoopie sling (or UCR or whatever) it would have a higher abrasion rate.

But that also brings me to another question, why do we hang from 1000, 1200, or even 1500# webbing? So if your hanging from 1/8" amsteel I would venture to say your webbing may not be the same rating, may very possibly be much less. So should we employ the same thing for our webbing?

[warbonnetguy]

I would think too that since, typically anyway, a whoopie sling is larksheaded around something like a whipped hammock end, that the strength would not be degraded anywhere near as much as an actual knot since the bend angle is nowhere near as extreme.

I'd agree with that, probably not as much as many knots would, would be interesting to know the answer though.

[TheIrishmanHangeth]

Yea I was trying to stay out of it as the last one got pretty heated and I got some pretty harsh replies sent to me. Well either way I found your information interesting, and wonder where you got your numbers from, manufacturer listing? Not that I am saying you made something up, just that some will question everything you say or do and giving the link to the site's will help overt that from happening somewhat. You will always have extremists, and those who give their views almost pushy, say overboard somewhat, but that is the beauty of the internet, and I feel that most here on HF do it with compassion rather than, well I'll not go there.
.

If by numbers you mean all the various weight forces to height angles I just used the ultimate hang calculator app and plugged in various weights and angles to get how much forces there was. If you mean the degradation of dynaglide when spliced I have heard that before on the forums, not sure which thread anymore at this point. I know Sgt Rock said it at one point in his Hennessy w/ whoopie slings vid that when spliced the rope is only decreased by 10%. Again though, if there is new info refuting that percentage then I would for sure like to hear about it.

[nothermark]

This forum does not encourage flame wars. I support that so I am not interested in getting into one. OTOH it is worth noting that I did not say that amsteel broke. I said suspensions failed.

FWIW I have been playing with Hammocks since a friend of mine bought an early Hennessy then let me try it so I used that after he bought a Clark. He also bought an early copy of Ed Speer's book. We were playing with materials and methods long before I found this forum. Once I found it I also found a wealth of information including analysis about what kind of loads we could impose in a setup. It shed more light on some of our failures.

I also have enough of an engineering background to understand what folks are talking about with dynamic loads and material testing. That is why when I see anecdotal reports of "I did this and got away with it" I do not doubt it happened. After all a 10:1 safety factor says I could do the same thing with 1/10 the strength in my setup. What I also know is that providing a safety factor allows for problems that degrade equipment to happen and to still be able to use the equipment. Ditto overloads from improper use or unexpected circumstances. I find that worth while. You evidently do not.

[Ratdog]

Let's all chip in and get one of these crane scales.

Couple spools from Redden, an air mattress for safety and a few brave volunteers.

The let the testing begin.

Or, someone most know a local university prof itching to put some undergrads to work. This is classic stuff. Maybe we fund a grant. . Just sayin...

[Cranky Bear]

This forum does not encourage flame wars. I support that so I am not interested in getting into one. OTOH it is worth noting that I did not say that amsteel broke. I said suspensions failed.

FWIW I have been playing with Hammocks since a friend of mine bought an early Hennessy then let me try it so I used that after he bought a Clark. He also bought an early copy of Ed Speer's book. We were playing with materials and methods long before I found this forum. Once I found it I also found a wealth of information including analysis about what kind of loads we could impose in a setup. It shed more light on some of our failures.

I also have enough of an engineering background to understand what folks are talking about with dynamic loads and material testing. That is why when I see anecdotal reports of "I did this and got away with it" I do not doubt it happened. After all a 10:1 safety factor says I could do the same thing with 1/10 the strength in my setup. What I also know is that providing a safety factor allows for problems that degrade equipment to happen and to still be able to use the equipment. Ditto overloads from improper use or unexpected circumstances. I find that worth while. You evidently do not.

Interesting as someone whom is being quoted as saying something, then others asking questions based off that is flaming? Yet you are quoted as saying that others don't understand what they are doing if they are only reading a book or looking at tables, yet I'm the bad guy for pointing it out??? Cool I can handle that .

Funny as it was and has been interpreted as conversation with intent to learn. Sorry if you feel that way, although making blanket statements like" I have fallen" while giving nothing else leaves one to believe that you either are not being forthcoming with information as the questions were asked as to what happened and the circumstances, yet you refuse to answer them. I said what I did because if you actually did have a suspension fail then I felt that that information was not only pertinent to this thread but the other thread that I linked. I had a comment based on the thread and your posts, sorry that you didn't like what you heard.

[Cranky Bear]

If by numbers you mean all the various weight forces to height angles I just used the ultimate hang calculator app and plugged in various weights and angles to get how much forces there was. If you mean the degradation of dynaglide when spliced I have heard that before on the forums, not sure which thread anymore at this point. I know Sgt Rock said it at one point in his Hennessy w/ whoopie slings vid that when spliced the rope is only decreased by 10%. Again though, if there is new info refuting that percentage then I would for sure like to hear about it.

Saying where the weights and info was taken from, adding links so that others whom may question those can be seen for their own eye's makes it easier to deal with. Example as too the given weight rating was taken from where? Which source? Type of deal. Like sampson rope, or west marine, or x company, but give the link to it. Info taken from the book the Ultimate hang and you said you took it from there was fine, I was just talking about other web sites where the other info can be found.

I am not sure about the percentage that each type of splice, or and splices de-rate line.

Thats all I was talking about.