Speer III

**DavidWa** · 03-10-2009, 20:06

I'm new to the hammocking but in relation to other diy things where a zipper or velcro is often used to close an opening along a long length I've sometimes wondered how it would work to substitute the magnetic tape which can be purchased in long lengths on a spool about 1/2 inch wide. Just sew a length of mag tape or sections of tape into a hem, making sure to have the tape flipped in the mating edge so that to two edges would attract to one another.

Weight would likely be an issue as well as the ability to wad it up and stuff it in a bag. And perhaps all that magnetized material would keep trying to attract to itself and cause a problem. However, its not really that strong a magnetic field and has to be fairly close to be attracted to its mating piece.

Maybe instead of using a continuous strip of tape just use short pieces about one inch long sewn along the length to be sealed and spaced at one inch intervals between one inch lengths of magnetic tape. It would be quiet.

I've had things which close with velcro and it seems to wear out after a period of being opened and closed and not hook as well as it does when new. An example - I Busted the screen on a Palm Pilot when the velcro on the pouch it stored in no longer worked well and the pouch flap was not sealed well and the Pilot fell out hitting the floor and cracked the screen. But that was not a long edge application.

Anyway I'm still thinking about trying it sometime on something like a mosquito net opening which is attached along its other edges to a tarp ( ground dwelling type) by other means. i.e tied or velcroed to the tarp edges but have a vertical opening for entrance and exit out of the shelter by using magnetic tape.

Perhaps it could be used on something like the Speer hammock by having the outer 1/3 ends of the net attached by velcro , leaving the middle third closed by magnetic tape. As it seems one can get in or out of a hammock with only the middle third being opened. OTOH - having not yet tried this idea on any project it may be a completely unworkable idea. Still its something I think worth at least trying sometime.

**Narwhalin** · 03-10-2009, 20:20

Originally Posted by DavidWa

I'm new to the hammocking but in relation to other diy things where a zipper or velcro is often used to close an opening along a long length I've sometimes wondered how it would work to substitute the magnetic tape which can be purchased in long lengths on a spool about 1/2 inch wide. Just sew a length of mag tape or sections of tape into a hem, making sure to have the tape flipped in the mating edge so that to two edges would attract to one another.

Weight would likely be an issue as well as the ability to wad it up and stuff it in a bag. And perhaps all that magnetized material would keep trying to attract to itself and cause a problem. However, its not really that strong a magnetic field and has to be fairly close to be attracted to its mating piece.

Maybe instead of using a continuous strip of tape just use short pieces about one inch long sewn along the length to be sealed and spaced at one inch intervals between one inch lengths of magnetic tape. It would be quiet.

I've had things which close with velcro and it seems to wear out after a period of being opened and closed and not hook as well as it does when new. An example - I Busted the screen on a Palm Pilot when the velcro on the pouch it stored in no longer worked well and the pouch flap was not sealed well and the Pilot fell out hitting the floor and cracked the screen. But that was not a long edge application.

Anyway I'm still thinking about trying it sometime on something like a mosquito net opening which is attached along its other edges to a tarp ( ground dwelling type) by other means. i.e tied or velcroed to the tarp edges but have a vertical opening for entrance and exit out of the shelter by using magnetic tape.

Perhaps it could be used on something like the Speer hammock by having the outer 1/3 ends of the net attached by velcro , leaving the middle third closed by magnetic tape. As it seems one can get in or out of a hammock with only the middle third being opened. OTOH - having not yet tried this idea on any project it may be a completely unworkable idea. Still its something I think worth at least trying sometime.

Interesting comments...I have no experience with the magnetic tape you are talking about, but I am sure someone will have tried that and hopefully have a comment on the usability of it...still, something to consider for a nice quiet exit from the hammock.

**stretch** · 03-10-2009, 20:38

How about some tiny yet strong magnets? http://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=10

I have some 1/4"x3/8" neodymium magnets that are far too strong for this application, yet they are tiny. I may get some smaller ones to try out buried in a hem.

**Mustardman** · 03-10-2009, 20:49

I've always wondered about using magnetic connections on outdoor gear. It seems it would have far too many problems to make it practical, but it's still at least an intriguing idea.

**Cannibal** · 03-10-2009, 20:52

H.E.A.V.Y.
Plus, I think you'd want a fairly strong magnet to suspend something.

**stretch** · 03-10-2009, 20:59

I wouldnt try to suspend anything, maybe just replace a zipper/velcro connection. The magnets i'm referring to are very small, yet VERY strong pull force.

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/prodimages/D201L.jpg

**DavidWa** · 03-11-2009, 01:02

I have just received my Speer hammock yesterday - not even had time to hang it yet . Thus I'm not out to re-engineer it before I've tried it .

But that being said - in the spirit of discussion about a magnetic closure. I have some of those little round magnets, they are very strong. If you have only two of then stuck together they are very difficult to get apart. Not to bad if you have six or so stacked and you want to break them apart in the middle . We use them at home to stick messages up on the frige or stove range hood or leave a note on the front door.

I think sewing round magnets into a hem would be difficult , but maybe there's a trick to getting it right and keeping the magnetic poles aligned to attract and not repeal each other, and if the magnets used are too strong you may end up with a wadded up fabric which is difficult to get untangled. That is why I was thinking about the magnetic rubber tape. ( saw an interesting show on Disc channel a few months back about how this stuff is made. They make the stuff at a place in Marrietta, Ohio if I remember correctly and make enough there to satisfy the national demand ) This is the same type stuff you get from your insurance guy, has his business name and phone number printed on one side, having it magnetic makes it easy to stick it to the side of your refrigerator and he mails it to you in a normal business envelope. My wife buys rolls of the stuff at arts/crafts store for projects at Cub Scouts or Church youth class. otoh - it might be found that once the rubberized magnetic strip is sewn inside a hem it looses to much strength to stay stuck together. Lots of unknows.

The magnetic closure only needs to be strong enough to hold the edges together good enough to keep the skeeters out. Not much tension force on it unless the netting is pulled to tight. Only needs to hold together enough to not be forced open by wind or normal squirming around in the hammock. Which may be the tipping point problem. One magnet is to weak to hold the edges together during normal movement. Then a stronger magnet causes problems of everything sticking together in places you don't want it to. Maybe difficult to find a good middle ground magnet strength.

It could likely be easily tested with out doing any sewing. Just cut a 5 foot or so length of both the hook and loop tape . Glue a strip of the magnetic tape , or several short sections of it, onto the back side of each of the two types of the velcro strips. Then stick the velcro strips onto the appropriate matching velcro strip on the hammock and net as already built. Then see how well it holds the edges together. If too weak to hold together during normal movement inside the hammock try a stronger magnet. Of course if its to strong then the velcro might separate before the magnets did and so another way of testing would have to be found. But if it was found that it works then one could then go to the next step and actually sew the magnetic strips or magnets inside a hem sewn onto the edges of hammock and net. ( might want to see how it does when being stuffed first though )

Weight I think is not much of an issue. The magnetic tape or even the little round magnets don't weight much. Doubt its much different from the weight of the webbing used to hang the hammock with. We're talking about little strips of magnetic rubber , or small metal magnets here. Not a heavy bar magnet or one of those horse shoe magnets you can attach a rope to and pull up an engine block from the bottom of the lake with.

Again as I said earlier , maybe not a practical idea at all. I've not tried it on any gear. But having seen it used on bag closures , cabinet doors and such I've wondered if it would work. It certainly can't jam like a zipper. As someone posted, they've had zippers jam but nothing they couldn't get themselves out of. But the thought has crossed my mind that if I am going to zip myself inside a bag out in the woods alone I might always want to have a knife inside with me. Just in case that day arrives.

Velcro has to be matched up as the mating surfaces are attached to one another or you end up with a fold in the middle on one side. ( like mismatching buttons on the front of your shirt , and you have to start all over again) So another advantage I thought a magnetic closure might offer is that there'd be no worries about that since the magnetic edges could just slide past one another to smooth out any fold in one side resulting from not getting it matched up correctly when you first start sticking the to sides together. With just a tug on both edges either side of the fold your fixed.

Now that I have a Speer hammock I may give it a try sometime. But first I just want to have some fun hanging in it , and learning how to hang it correctly. Not ready to say it needs improvement before I've even used it. Ed must have picked the name 'Not to worry' for a reason. Besides , who knows maybe hungry bears are afraid of the sound of ripping velcro.

A nice feature to have should that day arrive. Course it could be the opposite and they find it very annoying

If that's the case then I'd say that's another asset for a quiet closure.

**Ramblinrev** · 03-11-2009, 06:47

Sewing magnets into a hem would not be a significant issue. Make the hem wide enough for the magnet and the sew across the hem to box the magnet where you want it.

_________________________________________
___________|__|___________________|__|____

You could do a similat thing on the hammock or simply sew box patches onto the edge of the hammock.

**Blue Caboose** · 03-15-2009, 20:08

I just got back from the first four nights in my Speer III with Snugfit. We walked between Springer and Neel's. I am also fairly new to HF. I have been hiking with a hammock for 4 years and have gone from HH to Clark NA to Speer and liked them all. When I stumbled onto this site I was blown away. You guy's really show your passion and the innovation is astounding. So I studied and read hundreds of posts and photo's. Because of the idea's found here my Clark now has a rope to rings that attaches to a strap with carabiner. It also has a new tarp and ridge line. I had never heard of maybe the best of all, under quilts, either. I am guessing that the Blackbird is probably the ultimate in hammock design right now. So after all of that I ordered a Speer.

After using the Speer on the trail I am getting a possible insight into Ed's philosophy of design that has resulted in this deceptively simple design. It is a very organic (figuratively) design that fits into the spirit of a thru hike and a pack very well. First of all the system seems to have grown out of the Appalachians where bugs are only an occasional seasonal bother, hence the removable bug net. Even more telling is the absence of anything mechanical or metal except for the SF carabiners. There really is almost nothing that can let you down. The big appeal for me is that Ed has managed IMHO to address all of the needs of four season hammocking without losing any of the great simplicity of hanging. I noticed this week that there is more to this hammock than meets the eye.

Some things that I noticed:

You can't hardly hang it wrong. There is plenty of room even if you slide a little to one end.

Comfy - Hang it with plenty of sag and splay out all over in any position. Hang it with less sag and the SF wraps warmly around you.

The slightly higher sides are useful for blocking wind and keeping warm.

Warmer than advertised - If it is very cold and windy you can easily (from inside the hammock) lift up an inch or two of the velcro on one side and tuck the other side into it in several places forming a kind of pea pod that wraps around you and your quilt. This eliminates any drafts, is very warm and may allow you to carry a lighter quilt or bag.

The Velcro is versatile - I plan to sew full length omni tape to my JRB weather shield to be attached in warmer weather and use it as a dead air space that can be filled with clothing or whatever.

This is of course just my own personal preferences and taking nothing away from any of the other great systems and ideas out there. Ed's choices and design solutions have suited me best. When I used this gear a light just came on and I knew that I had found what I have been looking for.

**opie** · 04-06-2009, 17:12

Originally Posted by Cannibal

The world needs stealth velcro!

I agree that the velcro is pretty easy to deal with. I just got my Speer hammock and haven't had as much of an issue with the velcro as I thought I would. However, it is still loud and I don't like that part of it. Still, having the bugnet completely removable is a very nice feature. Don't even get me started on how nice it is to mate-up the SnugFit to the Speer hammocks. You'd just be drooling anyway.

I dont really have anything worthwhile to add...

But your post did make me think of something...

ziplock. No noise...seals tight and you wont have the zipper issues.

Someone needs to produce that in something that can be sewn on.