you're already almost ultralight

[Cursnfurs]

agreed with what xtrekker said

[lokbot]

Thanks for sharing and good discussion..

Often base pack weights get tossed around as if it's a significant number when in actuality many dont count the weight of certain consumables like toothpaste, fuel, and other items in their base pack weight. Even items like worn clothing that will be removed and stuffed into the pack while hiking, are excluded from the pack weight. Example: Fleece pullovers, down jackets, gloves, beanies, scarfs, etc.....
These items should be included in base weight because you will actually have to carry those in/on your backpack at some point in time.

If base weight is to be shared then one should always include the weights of all the other times they will actually have to carry on their back during the trip.
I can understand the reason for excluding certain consumables because their weight will decrease as the trip progresses but at some point in the trip you WILL actually have to carry that weight so IMO it should be included. Generally water is the only consumable that will increase and decrease in weight during a trip. When one stops to refill at a stream, he/she may decide to stock up a little extra to make it to the next stream, thus increasing weight compared to the starting weight. Water is generally the only consumable that is replenished during a trip.

As for food, technically using my methodology, I should be including it as well in my base weight because it is a weight that I will have to carry at some point during the trip, even if it is decreasing in weight as the trip progresses. But I dont, because it is a consumable that varies dramatically based on many different variables of a planned trip, and because when someone is sharing their packlist, many people are not as interested in my food weight as they are my gear choices and its individual weights.

I understand my logic is probably not the norm and I am not saying it is the best or proper method but rather just explaining my choices; and also to point out that base weights should be taken for what they truly are and not to put too much significance on it. One should look at a packlist as a whole and the climate conditions that that packlist can handle. Its easy to make a UL pack list for more tolerable conditions vs unforgiving winter temps and mountain winds. People often neglect to state what their packlist can handle.

Edit: Just wanted to tell those that are having a hard time getting their pack weight down to some of the other UL pack weights, that the climates that you are dealing with may be far more intolerable conditions than those of the UL packlists.

xtrekker your methodology is actually the standard for how BPW works. Accept that you don't include fuel weight in BPW because it's a variable that will change with length of trip.

You do include the weight of your fuel canister, food bag, water bottle. You just don't include your consumables. This isn't so that you can cheat to hit some goal weight it's because the concept of 10 lb base weight is based around the gear selections that you choose and that system should work on anything from an over nighter to a 5 month thruhike within the temperature rating that you kit is designed for.

I don't say that I'm carrying 10 lbs on my back when I go out backpacking. I say when I hiked the wonderland trail earlier this month I had a 10.5 lb base weight, 6 days of food weighing in at 9 lbs, 6 oz of fuel, a 5th of Jameson 1.75 lbs, and a liter of water 2.1 lbs. So on the first day when I hiked 14 miles and climbed 6900 feet of elevation I was carrying 23.75 lbs. I consumed roughly 1.9 lbs out of my pack each day and reached my car with a pocket full of peanut M&Ms and a quarter lb of salami left over. I brought a few extra creature comforts with me on the trip. I didn't use them all so I will probably not be bringing them on my next trip. I did on the other hand drink all of the whiskey.

if you look at my list the items I don't count the weight for in my pack. The clothing are the items that will never go in my pack. All of my insulation clothing is counted in my BPW.

"Just wanted to tell those that are having a hard time getting their pack weight down to some of the other UL pack weights, that the climates that you are dealing with may be far more intolerable conditions than those of the UL packlists."

Living in a place with "far more intolerable conditions than those with UL pack lists" is usually the last thing that is keeping people from getting their pack weights down to UL. It's fear of those conditions and drastically over packing for them that keeps people from getting their pack weights down.

Most people that complete the AT, CDT, and PCT are hiking for 4-6 months with UL packs in pretty much every hiking condition that this beautiful country can throw at them.


-Loki

[FLRider]

I also like to account for everything you will carry from when you take your first step on the trail. Many times it's many hours before any weight is significantly dropped.

This past Spring, 3 day trip, Lake Arbuckle Tract, my weight from only my birthday suit to on trail was 23Lbs. That includes anything added to or carried by me from naked to ready-to-go. I know most don't count that way, but my goal is to know what my limits are, good or bad and how to improve.

The "no underquilts hang" in July in Ocala, FL found me carrying a heavier load for 3 days due to added food to share and pan to cook in. Once again, counting from naked, found me at ~30lbs. This was surprising to me due to a lighter Summer kit. Still need to tweak.

That's just me in the way that I weigh my load.

Yeah, but that's only because you brought that canned ham...a canned ham...and a frying pan. It's not your base weight, it's your consumables!


That being said, a base weight calculation is a good way to guesstimate what your total weight is going to be over a set period. Your food, fuel, and water totals should be about the same per day (depending on where you go; obviously you'll need to carry more water in the FL scrub than you will in the mountain watersheds, both due to temps and availability of water), which means that a guesstimate is possible for where and when you should set your resupply points. It also makes for a good guess as to how far you want to go each day (old trick: go less distance the first day, since you're carrying more food weight).

However, any time I give a weight in a trip report that isn't marked as a specific "pack weight" or "base weight", it's my FSO (Full Skin-Out) weight, counting everything I had on me at the trail head. Seeing as how that's what I'm carrying, it's the number that matters to my body.

Everything else is just a way to guesstimate that number and tweak stuff for specific trips.

That's my opinion, anyway. Lightweight/Ultralight/Superultralight backpacking is a tool to reach goals for me, not an end in and of itself. For some, that may be different--and more power to 'em! If everyone had the same goals in life, how dull would that be?

[XTrekker]

xtrekker your methodology is actually the standard for how BPW works. Accept that you don't include fuel weight in BPW because it's a variable that will change with length of trip.

You do include the weight of your fuel canister, food bag, water bottle. You just don't include your consumables. This isn't so that you can cheat to hit some goal weight it's because the concept of 10 lb base weight is based around the gear selections that you choose and that system should work on anything from an over nighter to a 5 month thruhike within the temperature rating that you kit is designed for.

I don't say that I'm carrying 10 lbs on my back when I go out backpacking. I say when I hiked the wonderland trail earlier this month I had a 10.5 lb base weight, 6 days of food weighing in at 9 lbs, 6 oz of fuel, a 5th of Jameson 1.75 lbs, and a liter of water 2.1 lbs. So on the first day when I hiked 14 miles and climbed 6900 feet of elevation I was carrying 23.75 lbs. I consumed roughly 1.9 lbs out of my pack each day and reached my car with a pocket full of peanut M&Ms and a quarter lb of salami left over. I brought a few extra creature comforts with me on the trip. I didn't use them all so I will probably not be bringing them on my next trip. I did on the other hand drink all of the whiskey.

if you look at my list the items I don't count the weight for in my pack. The clothing are the items that will never go in my pack. All of my insulation clothing is counted in my BPW.

"Just wanted to tell those that are having a hard time getting their pack weight down to some of the other UL pack weights, that the climates that you are dealing with may be far more intolerable conditions than those of the UL packlists."

Living in a place with "far more intolerable conditions than those with UL pack lists" is usually the last thing that is keeping people from getting their pack weights down to UL. It's fear of those conditions and drastically over packing for them that keeps people from getting their pack weights down.

Most people that complete the AT, CDT, and PCT are hiking for 4-6 months with UL packs in pretty much every hiking condition that this beautiful country can throw at them.


-Loki

I understand what your saying but many do not adopt this practice of full disclosure and only talk about their base weight. That is why I think people shouldn't beat themselves up for not being able to achieve a base weight that may not be suitable for their conditions. They should instead, only look at packlists that show all weights included as well as the conditions that can be endured using that gear. I just think we get carried away with base weights sometimes. It is a good reference for others to see how they can shave a few ounces off their pack weight with the different types of options out there...

[GregB]

One caveat. Don't go buying a new pack till you have the rest of your kit figured out.

THAT is a great piece of advice. When I bought my ULA Circuit (which I love) it didn't work for me because I still had a not very compressible 5 pound synthetic fill sleeping bag which took up almost half my pack space. Now that I have my super light top and bottom quilts which also compress really small my pack works much better.

[lokbot]

I understand what your saying but many do not adopt this practice of full disclosure and only talk about their base weight. That is why I think people shouldn't beat themselves up for not being able to achieve a base weight that may not be suitable for their conditions. They should instead, only look at packlists that show all weights included as well as the conditions that can be endured using that gear. I just think we get carried away with base weights sometimes. It is a good reference for others to see how they can shave a few ounces off their pack weight with the different types of options out there...

People shouldn't beat themselves up over a weight. If you feel like your pack is too heavy you should try to cut some weight. BPW is useful because it gives you a weight of items that you can cut out or replace with lower weights. I don't worry about how much other people are carrying (accept the feeling of empathy I have watching someone painfully lug a 50 lb pack up a hill). I think about my weight because that's what I have to carry.

People should know that if they where so inclined they could get down to a significantly lower weight no matter what kinds of conditions they are going to face if they make smart gear choices.


-Loki

[Gideon]

I agree about not beating yourself up over weight, however, I would recommend two things to every hiker...you owe it to yourself (first and foremost) to loose weight yourself. Always seemed silly to me to worry about saving 4oz or even 1lb on a piece of equipment if I'm 10 or even 15lbs overweight.

Secondly, I think you owe it to yourself to try to go as light as you can at some point in order to see what that does, or doesn't do, for your experience. I've gotten my base pack weight (summer) down to 6.75 lbs. What I found is that the lighter I went the more I enjoyed my overall hiking experience. I also enjoyed the endless hours spent tweeking and playing...I mean working with my gear.

It also helped me to get efficient and organized which makes my time out in the woods even more enjoyable. Having said all that, I've now added back some weight to change the way I cook. I found I liked "cooked" meals a lot more than freezer bag cooking, even with the dirty dishes. I'm still under 10 lbs but by going as light as you can you find your "sweet spot". If you never try, you may not know what you're missing. If you do try to lighten the load, I guarauntee you'll learn some things and get some benefit out of the effort. My own experience has also been that lighter gear tends to be higher qualify and more functional which contributes to my experience in the woods.

The only downside, in my opinion, of going ever lighter is that it's an expensive proposition. Let's face it, quilts, hammock, pack, and tarp account for the lions share of our weight. The only way to save weight there is to buy new gear.

So I think it's important to take your time; tweaking our gear and finding our personal sweet spot is a journey. We shouldn't get caught up in the fever but I do think we owe it to ourselves to give it a try. So those are my two cents worth....

Enjoy the day
Gideon