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  1. #1
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    Amsteel rope tension.

    How do you folks pull your amsteel taut? Im looking to find a knot, splice, tool, buckle, what have you, that makes it so I can pull a lot of tension into a line of amsteel and then easily loosen it after being unloaded. Why? Well for several reasons.

    Hammock related, im looking for a way to tie a very taut SLS system to minimize sag over long distance runs.


    Non Hammock related. I use amsteel running from a large cedar tree to a hook attached to my house that I then run loops of amsteel down to branches of my fruit trees to keep them from breaking when loaded with fruit.

    Both of these scenarios I have several hundred pounds hanging from the a line that runs a good distance (30 feet or more) thus getting it tight is very important. Normally in a case like this I would use a couple of truckers hitches to give myself a mechanical advantage, but I find that truckers hitches like to slip and come un done. I've tried Nite ize figure 9's but I can never get it tight enough with one of those, and I dont like the fact that it slowly damages the rope.


    Any ideas?
    Last edited by randomsteve95370; 09-03-2013 at 18:18.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mouseskowitz's Avatar
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    If you want to tension it under load you might want to look at something else. Ratchet straps sound better to me for the fruit trees so that you don't damage the limbs. Knots are a really bad idea, average strength of ~32%, larks head is best at 60%. Tight bends are bad too, 3:1 or better is what you should try for, so buckles are out. If you can find a system that is designed for wire rope you'll probably be okay, just use splices instead of the bolting clamps. Hope this was a little helpful.

  3. #3
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    We really do not do what you are asking so folks will largely be winging it.

    For the fruit trees figure out how whoopee slings work... I'd put the fixed end on the hook and the adjustable end at the branch. Use a some webbing to make a minnie tree hugger and the branch will be happier. You can then put the variable loop through the hugger loops and insert a toggle that will stay in place when the line is loaded.


    When considering the SLS system one also needs to factor in the load vs angle information. Hanging the line flat can increase the load significantly. Here is one calculator:

    http://theultimatehang.com/hammock-hang-calculator/

    Here is an explanation with the math. Note that at flat the load goes to infinity:

    http://www.ropebook.com/information/vector-forces

    There are other links but these will provide a clue.
    YMMV

    HYOH

    Free advice worth what you paid for it. ;-)

  4. #4
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    Ratchet straps work great, but its kinda hard to find a set that spans 50 feet for the trees, and it wouldnt work for a hammock either. I understand knots reduce rope strength, that is not really a concern of mine, especially when it comes to the fruit trees as 1/8" amsteel has an average breaking strength of 2500# and the tree limbs maybe add up to 400#'s, so it would have to be a massive reduction in strength for it to matter, and even if it did break it wouldn't be the end of the world.


    For the hammock have a knot is less then ideal, but it would only be 1 knot, and again 2500# strength, me weighing 130#, so again it would have to be a massive reduction of strength, 75% or more.

    A wire pulley setup would work for the trees but would be big and bulky to carry around for a hammock. Finding the best of both worlds seems to be a hard thing to accomplish.

    It was suggested to me that a cinch buckle with an added biner would allow for 3:1 and wouldn't slip, what is your thoughts on this?

  5. #5
    Senior Member goobie's Avatar
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    I would consult someone at an orchard or nursery for the tree question. Couldn't you just prop the limbs up with lumber that has a v notch in the end for limb to rest in?

    I use a SLS with descending rings on the ends of the hammock. The line goes through my treestrap and back to through the ring, then tied with a couple slipped half hitches. Never had a problem untying after a hang.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nothermark View Post
    We really do not do what you are asking so folks will largely be winging it.

    For the fruit trees figure out how whoopee slings work... I'd put the fixed end on the hook and the adjustable end at the branch. Use a some webbing to make a minnie tree hugger and the branch will be happier. You can then put the variable loop through the hugger loops and insert a toggle that will stay in place when the line is loaded.


    When considering the SLS system one also needs to factor in the load vs angle information. Hanging the line flat can increase the load significantly. Here is one calculator:

    http://theultimatehang.com/hammock-hang-calculator/

    Here is an explanation with the math. Note that at flat the load goes to infinity:

    http://www.ropebook.com/information/vector-forces

    There are other links but these will provide a clue.
    I understand how whoopie slings work, I have made several, along with fixed eyes, and locked brummel nacros and such. I planned to splice in a fixed eye for the hook then run it taut to the large cedar. Then running off of the main ridgeline I just strung I would hang lines down to tree branches to keep them up. I know this works as I have done it before with a wire line, but seeing how wire rusts, and doesnt have nearly the strength (I think something like 500# for the wire compared to the 2500# for the amsteel) I want to switch over but require a way to hang it tightly, which I seem to be finding it hard to do.

    I understand the physics when it comes to the SLS system and I realize that hanging a taut like increases the load compared to running 2 separate lines. However As I have said there would never be more then 400# of weight on the line at any given time. Seeing that 1/8" amsteel holds 2500# average I would have to lose strength /increase the load weight to more then 80% of what it is before it would even get close to breaking. I do not hang my hammock more then a few feet off the ground, and never above anything sharp so worst case is a broken line and a sore butt, If I feel that this could happen after testing out an SLS system pulled taut then I'd just use 5/32 or 3/16 amsteel which has a breaking point of well over 4 thousand pounds.

    Safety is not my main concern , figuring out a way to pull a line taut is

    Obviously the line doesn't need to have a thousand pounds of tension on it, simply enough to make the sag minimal when running long distances as I usually do. When hammock camping around my house you tend to always have a run of 20-30 feet Sometimes as much as 40' because of the size of the pine trees. Is this optimal? No, but it is the case sometimes and I like to think of ways of making it so I dont have to hang my tree huggers 10' off the ground so that my butt doesn't hit the ground once the SLS is loaded.
    Last edited by randomsteve95370; 09-03-2013 at 18:41.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by goobie View Post
    I would consult someone at an orchard or nursery for the tree question. Couldn't you just prop the limbs up with lumber that has a v notch in the end for limb to rest in?

    I use a SLS with descending rings on the ends of the hammock. The line goes through my treestrap and back to through the ring, then tied with a couple slipped half hitches. Never had a problem untying after a hang.
    Yeah you could use a a 2x4 or the like to prop the branches up, reason I don't do it that way is because the fruit tree hangs over my patio and that would mean having lumber supports scattering my patio making it harder to navigate then when there were branches laying on it.

    Not sure how you can have a SLS with the Rap rings on your hammock to connect with as well.

    This is kinda how my setup is, 1 main line that hangs my tarp and hammock. instead of Apline butterfly knots to hang my hammock from I am currently using prussiks made of 7/64 amsteel with a whoopie larks headed on to them for height adjustability (Though I am considering going to UCRs instead of prussiks) Is this similar to how you run yours?

  8. #8
    Senior Member fallkniven's Avatar
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    Trucker's Hitch will give you a lot of tension for your tree problem...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomsteve95370 View Post
    Normally in a case like this I would use a couple of truckers hitches to give myself a mechanical advantage, but I find that truckers hitches like to slip and come undone.
    Any ideas?

    ... yeah. That is my go to knot for when I need tension. Problem is truckers hitches and amsteel do not get along the way I would like.

  10. #10
    Senior Member olddog's Avatar
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    My hiking friend/engineer, MADD777, likes to remind me that a SLS will place much more load on the trees than a conventional hang. So I have taken more time in selecting the size of the trees, the soil conditions and the type of tree. My huggers are 6' long and if it will wrap twice around the tree with excess tail left over the tree is too small for my comfort. I've been on the ground or floor a few times and survived but pulling a tree over on top of the hammock could be ugly.
    Most of us end up poorer here but richer for being here. Olddog, Fulltime hammocker, 365 nights a year.

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