Anyone else?........anyone??? ...
Anyone else?........anyone??? ...
Questioning authority, Rocking the boat & Stirring the pot - Since 1965
[QUOTE=OCDave;1120174]At the very least, you would think the LNT center might seek input from some group that might have some experience. QUOTE]
Unfortunately no one here is "qualified" or has a "certificate" in hammock suspensions...because such certificate does not exist. There are General Orders and Protocol to follow in this bureaucratic decision making.
Hammock Forums can "CERTIFY" one as "Qualified".Originally Posted by KMACK
How about Anyone who has been a member of Hammockforums in good standing for > 1year, has posted more than 50 times and on their own honor has hung their hammock > 50 times is "CERTIFIED".
This is certainly more qualified than anyone whose input was allowed so far.
FIGHT bureaucracy WITH bureaucracy!
Questioning authority, Rocking the boat & Stirring the pot - Since 1965
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy. -Oscar Wilde
The mountains are calling
and I must go...
-John Muir
Definitely species related. But strap width also played a role. The damage I saw was from the white pines where we hung at the fall NEHHA.
My 1" straps definitely cause damage, but the 2" HH stock straps the guy I went with was using caused nothing (visible)
That is why I'm getting so far into this. Because I never would have imagined my 200lb butt causing something like that. Yet there it was, in front of me. My hang angle was good, tree spacing, etc all good. Yet on a 14" (ish) diameter tree, I saw the damage. And I REALLY wish I had brought my camera with me. It was my first time hanging from a pine, and if I can ever help it, it'll be my last.
Like the college professors I met with said: Evidence that damage CAN occur is easy. Take that worst case scenario I mentioned a few pages ago. All it'll take is someone overweight with a bad angle on the wrong species, and the picture will be right there in the LNT educational pamphlets.
The fact that the recommendation has been made is the point to this. Do we agree with it? No, obviously a lot of us have a problem with the thought of spending more money, or being penalized 4 oz in additional strap weight. But the fact that the recommendation out there already means that it'll eventually be adopted. What happens when it does? At that point I certainly hope that the people who disagree with it will stop saying they're willing to break the law. At least here, on a forum that you don't even need to be a member to read.
Your right, when it comes to hammocking, ethical responsibility and defending our passion, we are the ones fighting to keep these recommendations from getting totally out of control. We advocate that we're doing everything in our power to go miles beyond LNT when compared to ground dwellers. We compromise, present what evidence we have, and debate. 2" Straps, as far as I'm concerned is a compromise compared to 4", and the conversion straps make it more bearable by allowing us to keep our current hardware.
We also educate ourselves, and each other. Especially the newbies just coming into this. If anyone is likely to inadvertently give us a bad name, it'll be someone who doesn't know any better.
But saying "If this becomes formal regulation, I'm going to totally ignore it, and nothing will change my mind" doesn't do anything but hurt every single member of this community.
The whole point of the thread- AVOID LETTING THIS RECOMMENDATION BECOME REGULATION.... Act now to get the recommendation changed
this is me banging my head against tree....ooopps. I've left a trace
Questioning authority, Rocking the boat & Stirring the pot - Since 1965
Actually, I haven't hung from the same trees multiple times over the years. I've just started hammock camping this year.
I started out using the 1" straps that came with my Exped Ergo. When I needed something longer (some trees here are pretty big) I made up new straps with some 2" seat belt webbing I had.
On my one encounter with (Canadian) National Park staff this year, they both 'zeroed in' on my suspension while we were chatting. Fortunately, there were double wraps of the 1" straps on each tree, and they were happy. 'Good hammock setup there.' I got the feeling that anything less would not have met their approval.
If another beginner asked me, I'd say that 2" (like the Hennessy?) would be the minimum width for tree straps for hammock suspension, and that we should be careful about the tarp suspension lines as well. (With the Exped eyelet line, it's often easy to hook the tarp ridgeline (supplied with toggles) into the suspension.)
I don't get very concerned about gear weight (within reason). However, most of the time I've been kayak camping. It's a different set of concerns when backpacking. But, if I can't manage to carry 2" (or even wider) straps, I'll hit the gym or quit.
Nothing that I would hang hang from but it appears that the LNT recommendations are affecting a broader community. I found the description here interesting is it does mention a $200 fine for damaging trees.
http://www.outfitterssupply.com/High...ctinfo/WPH113/
Well, if you look at the LNT post linked in the OP, the recommendation HAS been changed. It no longer states 2-4" but now says 1-1.5"The whole point of the thread- AVOID LETTING THIS RECOMMENDATION BECOME REGULATION.... Act now to get the recommendation changed
But the argument is still there. We should honestly consider this a warning, because if damage does happen, we'll be back to 2-4"
We need to be honest as a community, and if anything happens share it here so we can figure it out. Police ourselves so the powers that be don't have to. Educate each other, and guide newcomers in the right direction. I feel going below 1" is reckless, theres no need for it. The weight penalty of carrying 1" (or even 2") straps is worth it when compared to the risk of facing tougher rules. Every person with a hammock, regardless if they're a part of this community or not represents every single one of us everytime they hang. I keep that in mind anytime I'm out. The consequences to our actions can effect all of us.
I for one made the jump to the conversion straps. I did so willingly, and will continue to do so.
I think we need to consider species identification as part of that education. Species like oak, maple and elm are strong enough to put up with us. Poplar, birch and ash (due to emerald ash borers) are weaker, and more susceptible to damage. I'm not knowledgeable enough to speak of pines, as I've said before. Thats something I need to fix in myself.
Just my opinion.
so far it seems most are concerned about the hammocks but what about your tarp. I don't know anyone who uses webbing on the tarp. I use mason line or zing-it. Is that going to be a problem since the rope is in contact with the tree bark. There is no weight/force on the tree except when you pull the tarp tight and the line gets really snug around the tree. Will LNT say that is a problem?
As far as that ad is concerned I think it is a scare tactic to get you to buy their product
'Classic.' A book which people praise and don't read.” ― Mark Twain
Who cares about showers, gourmet food, using flush toilets. Just keep on walking and being away from it all.
There are times that the only way you can do something is to do it alone.
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