My super shelter has me fine into the thirties with a sleeping bag on top. In my non hennessey I have a synthetic UQ and HG burrow TQ. This is fine sleeping too. Get yourself what you can afford now. Upgrade later and resell here for limited loss.
My super shelter has me fine into the thirties with a sleeping bag on top. In my non hennessey I have a synthetic UQ and HG burrow TQ. This is fine sleeping too. Get yourself what you can afford now. Upgrade later and resell here for limited loss.
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the strength to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
Well of course you do!Originally Posted by Riddle of Steel
The fact that there are so many ways to skin this cat( sorry cat lovers!) naturally leads to many questions.
Well, I would think maybe a lot more than that. But I have not exactly done laboratory testing to find out exactly how many degrees. I will give a few random examples to help you guess how much you can expect:In addition to the cost, I’m also drawn to the versatility/features of the SS. The under cover, and the ability to add clothes seem like great value added. So adding 1 medium insulated jacket and 1 light fleece might add maybe 5* of back warmth? Sorry for the hypothetical. I just want to know what to realistically expect.
1:I have added just a light fleece jacket(no HH pad or space blanket, just the UC and jacket)- zipped up for double thickness- down into the under cover(UC) on a somewhat cold day. Can't remember what temps, maybe in the low or high 50s, maybe lower 60s plus wind. But whatever it was, my back went from unpleasantly cold to plenty warm. So how much is that, 5F, 10F or 15F? I do not know.
2: adding the ~ 3 oz HH kidney/torso pads, 1 fleece jacket and one down vest, I have been toasty at 14F, no tarp in a 6F windchill. I know I could have gone colder.
3: kwpapke, by adding a very thin pad, light summer bag and parka below was warm at minus 27F https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/...ead.php?t=6740
Nope, not one bit! In the early days around here you use to hear about people with cold backs who were sweating on top. Being toasty or even too hot on top is not going to help a cold back or butt at all. Adding the OC will keep you warmer on top and help block wind- and a little moisture- on top.In your opinion does adding the over cover actually bring down that base temp rating of 30* for the SS any lower?
Not really. But some argue that it goes the other way: being extra warm on the bottom might decrease how much insulation you need on top. And I think they are correct. Maybe because heat rises? But sometimes it just seems amazing the cooling effect a hammock seems to have on a back, especially if the wind is blowing under you. Sometimes I think evaporative cooling has something to do with it. For example, I will never think it is too cold if I am sitting around outside at 70F, or sitting in my recliner at 68F. But if I lay in a hammock out side, and there is a small breeze under the hammock, I might be a tad uncomfortable. And a lot if there is a hint of sweat before I lay down. And I have woke up with a cold sleeping inside with the same thermostat setting as every other night, maybe 68 with zero wind. I think keeping your back warm in a hammock is at least a little more critical than your top. If I do something to get my bback warm, I can often lay outside in a hammock way below 70 or maybe even 60 with no top insulation.Or does ambient temperature on top not really affect comfort related to bottom insulation. Meaning, can I offset a small deficit in bottom insulation by increasing top insulation/warmth?
There is. 1st because wind shifts through the night. 2nd because the OC is much closer to your body, and not nearly as open as the ends or bottom edges of most tarp setups, it will contain some of your body heat. I think a difference of 10-20F between outside temp and inside has often been recorded with a HH OC or various socks. ( see current thread on Goretex super sock). I don't usually see anywhere that much diff even with a battened down tarp. Although maybe I would if the tarp was big enough to close on both ends and stake close to the ground. But even then, that is a much larger area for your body to warm up.Is the overcover even that much better than staking down your tarp? If I stake my tarp down a bit to reduce wind, and I have a good sleeping bag or top quilt, and a good hat, is there even a point to the over cover?
They have a breathable UQP, maybe non-breathable also. The HHSS UC is non-breathable waterproof sil-nylon. A 2 oz $3 space blanket is part of the system, going on top of the HH pad, serving as a vapor barrier(VB) to keep your body vapor outside of the insulation. ( Oh goodness, now we are into VBs, talk about more questions!) If you used a sil-nylon UQP for a down UQ, you would also need a VB as 1st layer under the hammock. Or, use a breathable UQP.The Incubator still sounds awesome to me as well though. But it does sound like I’d need to replace my tarp which I don’t really want to do yet, or add an under quilt protector. That 2QZQ UQP is reasonably priced, is only 6.5 oz, and supposedly adds 5-10 degrees? That starts to sound like a good idea. But I thought down UQs needed to breath? Does a UQP ever result in a damp UQ?
At UGQ you must pick you specifics for size and fill power. Here is a page with these specs:If Active Dri down really works as described, then that sounds like a great option. Underground Quilt’s site isn’t as clear as some of the others though. It doesn't give the weight of anything really. I guess I should call them to discuss. Their site says 3-5 weeks though, which is longer than I hoped to wait.
http://www.undergroundquilts.com/Specs/default.html
A full length(78"L), 50" wide 850 FP 20F weighs 22.5 oz. If you are in a huge rush, JRB has some great quilts and they are usually in stock ready to ship:
http://www.jacksrbetter.com/shop/mt-washington/
And yes, the Active Dry sounds GREAT to me, I would def go that route.
They are not as heavy as you might think. First, I suspect they are under rated at 30F, especially with the Apex upgrade(free at the moment). Some have reported using them quite a bit lower than 30F. But the down advantage becomes greater with the warmer quilts, so more advantage with a zero rated quilt than a 20F and even more than when comparing 40F quilts.I also looked at Arrowhead Equipment’s stuff. They sound great, and are synthetic, but their stuff is much heavier to get to the same warmth that I’d get from a down UQ.
A New River weighs 30 oz. A similar length 20-25F down UQ will run about 23 oz. So about 7 oz. But a bigger diff is how small the down quilt will pack down. But like I said, a few folks have reported getting way below 30F with a Jarbidge.
Hmmmmmm, what would I do? That is very hard to answer, because I don't know what you actually want, as opposed to need. I'd probably go with the HHSS. But, I am already a very experienced HHSS user X 7 years, and I know I can make them work for me. Not every one likes HHSSs! A lot do, but a lot don't.I guess most people just get a bigger tarp to help with wind, rain, etc. If I just did that, I would have less need for an over cover, or the UQP. I’m sure I’ll eventually get a bigger/better tarp. That makes me think the down UQ is probably the right choice for now, maybe with the 2QZQ UQP to get me by until I get around to a better tarp?
What would you do?
If you get an Active dri down UQ, or the AHE Climashield, you really won't need to worry that much about keeping it bone dry with a huge tarp or UQP. But you will still need to keep the wind off of it, or you will not be near as warm as you had hoped. If you can afford the down UQ and either a larger tarp or the UQP, I would go that route. Especially if the down is what you really want. But you must be able to keep the wind off. I guess some folks are able to do that with the small HH tarp. Especially if they are good at finding sheltered spots to hang. What do you think, can you keep the wind off?
OTOH, all of that is taken care of with the HHSS. You won't need a larger tarp or UQP, and it might be a little cheaper than the down UQs, but probably not cheaper than the AHE, def not cheaper than the Jarbidge( not quite full length). But if you think the down UQ is really what you want, I would hold out for that. Since you are already using a pad, you could just get a thicker pad until you know for sure what you want. A thick enough pad, or stacked pads with an SPE, ( http://www.eaglesnestoutfittersinc.c...uct/A4011.html ) can take you well below zero. Plus, they are wind and waterproof. Figure out a way to stack a WM blue pad on top of what you already have, and you will be super warm.
There you go, that should help you make up your mind! (NOT!)
Last edited by BillyBob58; 11-09-2013 at 10:39.
So I too am still torn between, a HHSS, AHE potomic, or a down UQ maybe a greylock3. Anybody have a pick of the three packed down for size comparison. I'm not worried about weight but volume is an issue for me, saving some on isulation if I have to buy a larger pack is counter productive.
I ordered a superfly from WB 19 oz. $130. Once again awesome service, killer value and year round flexibility as a rain or sun shelter Have a 4 night Erwin to Hot Springs AT hike next week w expected rain and WB promised delivery by Wed. Am selling my HH large hex to a scout leader to offset cost. The scouts will use that one as a general cover for eating area or whatever. I am going to let the original fly drape loosely as an overcover on cold nights will update when I get back. Looks now like they are calling for milder weather next week but will get another shot at nasty in a couple weeks doing 19 to Damascus
So hear is the entire HHSS undercover and pad which I managed to get back inside it's original sack:
As you can see, that is quite small. But really, IMO, you would need to add a space blanket, but that is about a wallet sized package. However I would never go to the trouble of getting all of this back inside this sack, but it does show how small it can potentially be compressed down to. This is how it comes from HH. But it could be compressed down this small in any compression dry sack, or often I just stuff it all down into my pack with no separate stuff sack.
This picture is the entire sleep system of
1: one Explorer UL hammock,
2: 1 HHSS pad, plus kidney/torso pad,
3: a space blanket,
4:overcover,
5: undercover and
6: one size long Golight Ultra20 TQ
All in one heavy duty coated nylon sack. This only compresses from the sides, and I do not even have it cinched down all that tight. I could get it much smaller in a good compression dry sack. Remember, this is the large Explorer hammock and entire sleep system except for tarp.
I don't have a picture of my AHE Jarbidge(not quite full length) Apex stuffed, but judging by the stuff sack that came with it, it would be about twice the size of the the HHSS pad/UC in the 1st picture above. But, I don't know if it could then be compressed down further than the size of that stuff sack.
The down UQs, especially the shorter ones like the Greylock, probably pack down the smallest for any given temperature rating, but I don't have any pictures. Here is a video of a JRB UQ ( which one?) being stuffed down into the compression sack that comes with it:
http://www.jacksrbetter.com/shop/compression-sacks/ Or, to make the most of the room in a pack, people often skip the stuff sack and just stuff the quilt down inside the pack, to better fill every nook and cranny.
Last edited by BillyBob58; 11-09-2013 at 11:36.
billybob. thank you for the post. wish i could just make up my mind on this one.
I can relate. I have experienced tons of analysis paralysis.
I use a sleeping bag like a top quilt most of the time. I leave it unzipped, stick my feet in the footbox and then spread the the rest over me like a blanket, tucking the sides around me if needed to block drafts. If I get cold, I sometimes get completely inside my sleeping bag. Sure, I lose some of the effects of the insulation with it being compressed against the hammock underneath me, but I still find that it adds warmth and can be the difference between being cold and being comfortable. I'm a cold sleeper with thyroid issues so YMMV.
With a radical sense of hope, I strive for the seemingly impossible.
Whoa. That superfly is palatial! Have you been out with it yet? What’s it like having an entire house around you?
That's good advice. Thanks.
Got it! Thanks.
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