New gear for my pct hike

[RichardD]

I finally made up my mind and ordered a WBBB 1.1 double, next will be the cuben tarp.
I will wait until I get my hammock then set it up to determine the length ridgeline I want on the tarp, the cuben tarps are expensive so I need to get it right first time!!
I am leaning towards the Hammockgear tarp that has doors and I see it has a choice of ridgeline lengths. The Zpacks tarp also looks good to me and I see that can be ordered in one of two different weights of material.
I also wonder if the Winter Palace might be the better bet but I need to be able to set it up on the ground with hiking poles, it might be a bit big for that.
Lots of considerations and unfortunately I have no opportunity to look at or try any of this gear first.
My present setup is the Hennessy Ultralight Explorer with sil hex tarp and it has served me very well, especially on my AT thru. On a couple of occasions windblown rain came in at the open ends and wet my underquilt a little but nothing the underquilt DWR could not handle. I am thinking the doors will eliminate even this minor problem.
I was nervous of my sil tarp holding up in a couple of serious AT thunderstorms, it did, but extra tie out points on the side panels of the tarp would have given more assurance.
My motivation to getting the new gear is to lighten my pack without sacrificing the comfort and weather protection that I have grown accustomed to.
For insulation I have a JRB Mt Washington 4 underquilt and WM 20 degree sleeping bag and for Summer use a JRB nest underquilt and a Hammockgear 32 deg topquilt. I will likely use the Winter setup from Campo North to perhaps Tahoe then again for Washington.
I have a NEO airmat that I carry for rare occasions I have to go to ground and I might lighten up by buying a small size Xlite for that purpose, one long enough for shoulder to hip support. I only expect to have to go to ground a few times between Campo and Kennedy Meadows and if I am lucky, not at all.
Any comments on the tarp which will most likely fit the bill are most welcome. I will not have opportunities to try gear out prior to the hike, I will have to get it ordered soon then will only have a couple of weeks to set it up in my back yard in early April to work out any problems before I leave for Campo.

[Fronkey]

My suggestion is to get the HG hex tarp. I had a friend who did the PCT this year and he put up his tarp less than 10 times for the whole trip. Having a really light tarp and especially one as well made as the ones from Hammockgear is a great addition to your pack.
Have a great time out there.


Fronkey

[Cranky Bear]

If you are strictly going for weight savings, the HG tarp is lighter than the Z-Packs. And cheaper to boot. This is based on a fair comparison between both the hammock tarps with doors, with the same ridgeline length.

Again if weight is an ultimate goal the HG Hex is where it's at. Even though I see you have ruled that option out based on your experiences on the AT.

Although I may add that if you had say one set of door's on that particular end of your tarp would your thoughts be different on a Hex design? If so then a cuben grizzbeak may work for you. I did a so-so review of one and posted a few pic's of it in the review thread.

A HG Winter Palace could very well be set up on the ground, if your hiking poles are not long enough, use a stick or branch that is long enough. Or set it with a wider base, which would drop the ridgeline to the point you need it for your hiking poles. Although by doing this the doors may not function as you want, so some ingenuity may have to be implemented.

Extra tie outs, panel pulls and all that can be added to your tarp. Either the one you have or the new one when ordered as both Joe and Adam do custom work. Adding to your current tarp may take the kindness of another to do it if you don't sew. If thats the case it cannot hurt to ask on here.

Hope you have a great thru, if you should choose to journal the thru please post it here as I am sure many would enjoy reading of your adventure, I know I would.

Take care and be safe!

[RichardD]

Thanks for the replies. I might very well go with the hex tarp although the doors do look neat for less than 2 oz
I guess what concerns me is that my Hennessy is 108 inches long and my tarp 144 inches long at the ridge and the coverage is just about right.
The WBBB shows a length of 120 inches so I wonder if a 12 foot ridge length is enough. The specs surprised me since the one time I looked at a Blackbird it appeared shorter than my hammock.
I will be back home at Christmas and hopefully I will have the hammock by then to see what my 12 foot tarp looks like on it, then make the decision.

[enyapjr]

The WBBB shows a length of 120 inches so I wonder if a 12 foot ridge length is enough.

Richard, the WBBB's "length of 120 inches" is a "raw dimension" per the WB website - i.e., before it is 'finished'... A much more important spec is that the WBBB has a "structural ridgeline" of 100 inches - as such after the BB is 'built' & finished it is only roughly 8' 6" long when hung; therefore, a HG tarp of "Standard" length (10' 10" spec) would have more than one foot of ridgeline beyond each end of a BB - which is more than sufficient coverage. (This isn't mere speculation, see my gear profile. )

If you are strictly going for weight savings, the HG tarp is lighter than the Z-Packs. And cheaper to boot. This is based on a fair comparison between both the hammock tarps with doors, with the same ridgeline length.

...

A HG Winter Palace could very well be set up on the ground, if your hiking poles are not long enough, use a stick or branch that is long enough. Or set it with a wider base, which would drop the ridgeline to the point you need it for your hiking poles. Although by doing this the doors may not function as you want, so some ingenuity may have to be implemented.

...

A little more 'detail' for differences between HG & ZP tarps:
ZP aready has 4 more 'standard' tie-outs than HG included in its price; HG ridgeline length is 10' 10", ZP's is 11'; HG has cat cut sides, ZP's are straight; ZP's weight includes the stuff sack... All those points can directly relate to the ZP being 'heavier' than the HG at first glance - to me they are fairly equal taking everything into account, and both are much lighter than any SilNylon tarp with the same coverage... IMHO, you can't or won't go wrong with either HG or ZP - both are great cottage vendors (caveat: I personally prefer the HG cat cut sides - less flapping in wind - but that might be why ZP includes the additional side tie-outs as standard, too(?)).

Regarding the Winter Palace set up on the ground comments:
"...if your hiking poles are not long enough, use a stick or branch that is long enough." If there was a long stick or branch readily available, wouldn't that also mean there were "trees", too? In that case, why would he be "going to ground" and not hanging??
As for a lower ridgeline set-up creating a wider base - I agree that the doors probably wouldn't function as 'designed', but one could definitely 'make do' considering the overall size of the WP tarp!
Perhaps you could get more detail specs of the WP from Adam at HG before you make your final decision... FWIW, IMO a Winter Palace is too big for "three season" usage, especially on a thru-hike(!).

Hope to see you, Richard, on the PCT next year! - and any other hangers, too, of course!!

[Cranky Bear]

Richard, the WBBB's "length of 120 inches" is a "raw dimension" per the WB website - i.e., before it is 'finished'... A much more important spec is that the WBBB has a "structural ridgeline" of 100 inches - as such after the BB is 'built' & finished it is only roughly 8' 6" long when hung; therefore, a HG tarp of "Standard" length (10' 10" spec) would have more than one foot of ridgeline beyond each end of a BB - which is more than sufficient coverage. (This isn't mere speculation, see my gear profile. )

A little more 'detail' for differences between HG & ZP tarps:
ZP aready has 4 more 'standard' tie-outs than HG included in its price; HG ridgeline length is 10' 10", ZP's is 11'; HG has cat cut sides, ZP's are straight; ZP's weight includes the stuff sack... All those points can directly relate to the ZP being 'heavier' than the HG at first glance - to me they are fairly equal taking everything into account, and both are much lighter than any SilNylon tarp with the same coverage... IMHO, you can't or won't go wrong with either HG or ZP - both are great cottage vendors (caveat: I personally prefer the HG cat cut sides - less flapping in wind - but that might be why ZP includes the additional side tie-outs as standard, too(?)).

Regarding the Winter Palace set up on the ground comments:
"...if your hiking poles are not long enough, use a stick or branch that is long enough." If there was a long stick or branch readily available, wouldn't that also mean there were "trees", too? In that case, why would he be "going to ground" and not hanging??
As for a lower ridgeline set-up creating a wider base - I agree that the doors probably wouldn't function as 'designed', but one could definitely 'make do' considering the overall size of the WP tarp!
Perhaps you could get more detail specs of the WP from Adam at HG before you make your final decision... FWIW, IMO a Winter Palace is too big for "three season" usage, especially on a thru-hike(!).

Hope to see you, Richard, on the PCT next year! - and any other hangers, too, of course!!

For part one-
If nitpicking is the game, although I'll do it with less attitude though! You forgot the manner in which it is constructed! Z-Packs not only sews, but also tapes all seams...adds weight don't ya think? As well as the tie out's are different, even in the manner they are constructed!

All this would play a factor in the weight game, would it not?

Also 2" on the ridgeline when factoring in cuben may come to a couple grams..but the weight difference between the two is "2oz" total, and again as I said the HG is still cheaper. It is still a fair apple's to apples comparison. Just because the details that can be seen in the descriptions were not listed means absolutely nothing as the buyer should "ALWAYS" look at that with a piece of gear that cost's as much as this does.

Part two-
First you said "FWIW, IMO a Winter Palace is too big for "three season" usage, especially on a thru-hike(!). " Here's an interesting "fact" the HG Winter Palace weighs the same as the Z_Packs hammock tarp with doors, so it would be the "same" weight...no difference. Yet the real-estate one would get would be fantastic, no different than the thousands of thru hikers that hike every year with a two man tent cause they want more "living space", wonder why??? Also how did you determine and what determining factors did you use to make a claim that the HG Winter palace is too big for 3 season use? I find this actually a funny statement because lot's of people on this forum use large tarps and I would be willing to bet that there are more large tarp users than postage stamp users! Also to the point again of the "same weight". If you could carry a larger shelter for the same weight as a smaller one you are saying that you would go for the smaller one? I sure wouldn't!

Interesting that one could carry a bigger shelter with no difference in weight, and IMHO if living out of said item for months on end wouldn't it make more sense to have more living space at "NO" weight penalty? Just because the weather in Cali isn't as bad a WA, heck from reading trail journals most cowboy camp a great deal, so why bother carrying a shelter at all right, same "logical" thinking as you have employed.

Finding a branch to use can most certainly be done, manzanita is all over the place in the Cali sections of the PCT where there aren't any other tree's right? There have even been thru's whom have hung their hammocks from them. Hmmmm, makes me wonder how the other hammock hangers that thru'd the PCT hung the entire way with no tree's

Also ever heard of a "dead" tree", maybe you would hang from a dead tree but I sure wouldn't, yet they let branches go all the time. One tree hang??? Those situations arise, while they may be few, they do happen best not to nitpick those out .

Glad you agree with lowering the ridgeline, wheew at least I got one out of three .

Also your tone at the end with "Hope to see you, Richard, on the PCT next year! - and any other hangers, too, of course!! "

Your underlined section reads as though you are saying that just because I am not thru'ing the PCT this year I shouldn't comment, or that my response isn't as good as yours cause your gonna "ATTEMPT" to thru and I'm not, very interesting way of putting things to others!

[dakotaross]

Is anything really too big? Too heavy perhaps, or more importantly since cuben is so light and the extra doors so minimal in material weight... is the fact that you need to stake the doors down, meaning more accessory weight. Personally, if you thru'd the AT with the stock HH tarp, then I'd say you're golden with the straight hex. But if the total weight of the palace plus additional stakes, lines, etc. is minimal enough, AND you can handle the extra cost, WTF not?

[Cranky Bear]

Is anything really too big? Too heavy perhaps, or more importantly since cuben is so light and the extra doors so minimal in material weight... is the fact that you need to stake the doors down, meaning more accessory weight. Personally, if you thru'd the AT with the stock HH tarp, then I'd say you're golden with the straight hex. But if the total weight of the palace plus additional stakes, lines, etc. is minimal enough, AND you can handle the extra cost, WTF not?

Exactly......although I think (which I don't do often as it hurts too much) the HG Winter Palace with all extras added (lines, stakes, all that stuff) would still weigh a considerable amount less than what the OP carried on his AT thru, or did I miss something??

[dakotaross]

...although I think (which I don't do often as it hurts too much) the HG Winter Palace with all extras added (lines, stakes, all that stuff) would still weigh a considerable amount less than what the OP carried on his AT thru, or did I miss something??

Agreed, but what I meant was that if the other was OK "coverage-wise" for the AT thru, then the smaller, lighter, less expensive hex should work just fine. Personally, I prefer fewer places to stake out, but I also like things wide open.

[gunner76]

I have the HG Winter Palace tarp 12ft version with tie outs and it weights in at 8 oz.

My WBBB 1.7 dbl fits under just it fine with room to spare and I have yet to get wet under it ( I have to close the doors or tie them down )