Not about to start a war of religion here...

[bubba74]

... but I was wondering about the old "what synthetic to use for an underquilt" discussion.

I've been Google'ing it for the past days and haven't really gotten much wiser - more confused, yes, but wiser: no.

Basically I understand the following

• Primaloft is the most down-like one out there as far as compressibility and CLO go. Especially Primaloft One.
• It is less suited for larger panels though. Ways around that include quilting, sewing-through top- and bottom layers and overlapping the cold spots, etc. In other words: it's a problem that can be overcome, but requires some work
• Continuous filament stuff like Climashield is heavier but easier to apply in quilts and the like. AFAIK, Kick-***-Quilts use them. I read cwhammocks' post saying that he switched away from Primaloft - but couldn't find the reasoning for it.
• climashield is pretty hard to come by here in Europe, Primaloft is sold by at least 1 German webshop I know of.
• Over on BPL the whole discussion feels a bit like two religions going at each other - each one is convinced of being "right" and there's no middel ground. However, all I'm looking for is "what to do".

So: What to do?

The idea is for a sort-of-3-season UQ (will be used in combination with my Exped downmat to get a combined 4-season system).

I'm looking at weight and packabitlity as main points - I lug that stuff around for long periods of time and the lighter/smaller the pack is the happier I am... Unless I get cold and wet because I made some bad choives about gear, then I'm very unhappy.

Still looking at down, too, but climate-wise Northern/Western is a bit challenging for that (I found that out using a down bag in Scotland.... with major condensation issues in my tent. Brrrr). So a synthetic-over-down layer as last ditch resort (when going to ground) might be best.

[VictoriaGuy]

My initial reaction to your thread title "...religious war...." was: "I'm not going there!!".
Obviously, curiosity got the better of me

Perhaps others will drop by as well.

I'm old-fashioned and I think you'd get better answers if you used a title that represented the questions you want to discuss. (synthetic insulation choices?).
But that's just me.
And, I know very little about synthetic insulation choices, sorry!!

[bubba74]

Hmm, valid point. Just wanted to make sure that people know I'm not interested in "I believe x is better" but rather have some tried-and-tested facts/truths/whatever.

Tried changing the thread title but can't figure out how to do that; will have to wait and see now if others are curious enough as well, I guess

[Boston]

I haven't played with either, but usually if there a significant following of both, and a large debate over "which is better" than they're both probably good options. Choose the one that suits your needs/tickles your fancy best. Chances are you wont go wrong either way.

Climshield Apex is probably the one I see discussed here the most, if that helps.

[Ramblinrev]

Hmm, valid point. Just wanted to make sure that people know I'm not interested in "I believe x is better" but rather have some tried-and-tested facts/truths/whatever.

FWIW.. the "I believe x is better" goes over pretty well. A personal opinion here carries a lot of merit. It's when the "I believe..." gets dropped that things can get hairy. Then it becomes an unqualified statement. That doesn't set as well. That's just the way things are around here. We're a strange corner of the internet.

[MrClean417]

I believe he'd get better responses with an appropriate title.

NO, He'd get better responses with an appropriate title.

Ya, one makes a suggestion to a different approach, the other just calls the poster names for not doing it my way.

[bubba74]

FWIW.. the "I believe x is better" goes over pretty well. A personal opinion here carries a lot of merit. It's when the "I believe..." gets dropped that things can get hairy. Then it becomes an unqualified statement. That doesn't set as well. That's just the way things are around here. We're a strange corner of the internet.

Hmm, English not being the language we communicate daily in any more can be a challenge from time to time. Makes for rusty fingers and language mishaps in my case :-)

Of course I understand that what most everyone writes - me included - is a matter of opinion. However, what I want to avoid is a discussion based on "I heard" and "so and so said, therefore it has to be true" kind of statements. My Google forray into the matter has delivered tons of those. What I'm after is more "I use xx in my xxx and it works" or - even better "... and it failed miserably due to..." - then at least I know what to avoid

[BillyBob58]

Hmm, English not being the language we communicate daily in any more can be a challenge from time to time. Makes for rusty fingers and language mishaps in my case :-)

Of course I understand that what most everyone writes - me included - is a matter of opinion. However, what I want to avoid is a discussion based on "I heard" and "so and so said, therefore it has to be true" kind of statements. My Google forray into the matter has delivered tons of those. What I'm after is more "I use xx in my xxx and it works" or - even better "... and it failed miserably due to..." - then at least I know what to avoid

Well, no experience with Primaloft, though I bet it would work well if you could deal with the loose insulation as opposed to sheets(layers) of insulation. But there are a bunch of Climashield UQs in use around here, either DIY or from AHE like the Jarbidge/KAQs, and they are generally very highly rated overall.

All I have much experience with is the old WB Yeti, before they switched to down. It is a short differential cut model with removable layers of CS. I have used it with 1 layer of 2.5 oz sq yd into the high 40s and it worked great. We have used it with to or 3 layers of the same into the 20s and it worked great. One member here has taken his with all 4 layers way below zero and was fine, plus he got it wet a couple of times on the AT and was fine. So, I think it works great, with lots of warmth for the weight. It is of course bulkier than down, but don't know about PL1.

[Fish<><]

Have you considered water proof down? If weight and packability are your top priorities, then that might be something you want to look in to. That could avoid the "religious battle" all together, but it all comes down to sewing skills and patience I think. I too, looked at making my own quilts at one point in time, and went through the same painstaking decision making. I ended up with neither one. Once I encounter cold weather hangs again, I will go with waterproof down products. I hope this helps out a little.

[bubba74]

Have you considered water proof down?

Yes, I most certainly have thought about treated down. That would be my first choice, tbh.

Unfortunately I can't seem to find a source for it on our side of teh Atlantic though. I found some on Thru Hiker, but a) that is only 800cuin for the treated (900 for untreated) and b) costs $80 to get declared with customs (on top of shipping and the material costs).

If anyone knows of a source of it here in Europe (I know that Polish down, e.g., is great so there SHOULD be a source) then that would be what I would do without thinking twice.