HH Deep Jungle

[Cannibal]

Don't take this wrong, but you're probably the worst person on this forum to test a hammocks durability. It's hard for me to imagine you sleeping in the same hammock for a year, when you have 100 of them sitting around, begging to be used.

Oh how I wish. Some day when I've got my hammock hostel maybe. At best, counting home sleepers and DIY hammocks, I'm probably close to 30 or 40 hammocks. I believe the total tally of 'camping' hammocks is getting close to 20; 17 if the math in my head is accurate.

From your pictures that fabric looks like it's Dyneema gridstop, in which case it's probably very durable. I've never actually seen a Hyperlight, but I didn't think that's the stuff that they were made out of though.

It is not Dnyeema gridstop. That's what my ULA packs are made of and this stuff is nothing like that. Soooooo soft.

Now, what I really don't understand is what makes this design a "deep jungle" design, or why a design that's exactly the same only with a second layer in silnylon's a "deep winter."

The double layer is what classifies it as a 'jungle' model I guess. I see the term thrown around mostly at double layer hammocks. The bugs can't bite through it, hence the jungle name. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

I'm not seeing why using the sil is better in the winter than it would be in a jungle. Did TH explain any of that kind of thing to you when you spoke?

I actually got Tom on camera talking about it before my battery died. I keep forgetting to pull the video and put it out there. I've got some good angles on his 'winter tarp' on the video too. I'll try to get to it this weekend.

[Javaman]

I thought putting this hammock out there was Hennessy's competition against Brandon. Guess not if it's double the price....

Warning . . .Rant follows:

Innovation is what initially inspired me to buy a HH. Warbonnet continued that trend, gaining much traction. Plus, he's an active member here, giving him credibility and traction in the market. HH has remained quiet and still, until now . . . .

This seems a weak response by HH, and does not leverage what makes HH particularly unique. In fact, they left out the bottom entry altogether and offered up a lame imitation of 2Q/ZQ's mod. Smarter would have been to partner with ZQ for bug net mods and Mr. Prez for underquilts. Leverage the community, for god's sake. Otherwise you just end up looking desperate.

An excellent example of what I am talking about is happening over at Warbonnet, or even more so at Bark River Knife and Tool where the owner has partnered with an aftermarket modder to take care of all knife re-handling and refurbishing. This is happening under "factory authority" and "full warranty." Plus, the owner is VERY involved in the BRKT subforum at knifeforums.com and is very communicative about product development. The end result is a win/win for both businesses involved and a HUGE upside for BRKT owners.

So, while I don't yet have my Warbonnet on and remain happy with my HH setup, kudos to Brandon for being involved in the community and continuing to innovate his way forward. A shout out also to 2Q and ZQ for moving HH usability WAY beyond stock factory offerings and for pushing HH users to new levels of involvement with their hammocks.

Note also GoingGear's recent responses to a post here about inexpensive MSR type stakes offered on his site (www.goinggear.com). Monitors the communities involved with his products and then engages the community in a meaningful way to move his products and the value it brings to the community forward.

If this was Business School the ideas put forth in this rant would be a CLASSIC Case Study.

Tom may be watching, but he ain't here and it shows.

Javaman

[animalcontrol]

Warning . . .Rant follows:

Innovation is what initially inspired me to buy a HH. Warbonnet continued that trend, gaining much traction. Plus, he's an active member here, giving him credibility and traction in the market. HH has remained quiet and still, until now . . . .

This seems a weak response by HH, and does not leverage what makes HH particularly unique. In fact, they left out the bottom entry altogether and offered up a lame initation of 2Q/ZQ's mod. Smarter would have been to partner with ZQ for bug net mods and Mr. Prez for underquilts. Leverage the community, for god's sake. Otherwise you just end up looking desperate.

An excellent example of what I am talking about is happening over at Warbonnet, or even more so at Bark River Knife and Tool where the owner has partnered with an aftermarket modder to take care of all knife re-handling and refurbishing. This is happening under "factory authority" and "full warranty." Plus, the owner is VERY involved in the BRKT subforum at knifeforums.com and is very communicative about product development. The end result is an win/win for both businesses involved and a HUGE upside for BRKT owners.

So, while I don't yet have my Warbonnet on and remain happy with my HH setup, kudos to Brandon for being involved in the community and continuing to innovate his way forward. A shout out also to 2Q and ZQ for moving HH usability WAY beyond stock factory offerings and for pushing HH users to new levels of involvement with their hammocks.

Note also GoingGear's recent responses to a post here about inexpensive MSR type stakes offered on his site (www.goinggear.com). Monitors the communities involved with his products and then engages the community in a meaningful way to move his products and the value it brings to the community forward.

If this was Business School the ideas put forth in this rant would be a CLASSIC Case Study.

Tom may be watching, but he ain't here and it shows.

Javaman

Outstanding 'rant"...couldn't agree more

[guySmiley]

All of my favorite gear companies these days are cottage industry types (Mchale Packs, OES, Speer, Minibulldesigns, etc...) but one thing that I've noticed is that all of them, without exception, run into problems with fulfillment of orders.

Look at Tinny at Minibulldesigns. When he goes out hiking, his business comes to a standstill. For him, that's fine, but if he were to partner with someone that was counting on him being there, he'd be in the situation where he'd have to work more hours than he's capable of, or expand.

Hennessy Hammocks is never going to go back to being a cottage business. It just doesn't work that way. It seems like your expectations are a little unfair. The scale of his business is so completely different from that of 2QZQ that I highly doubt that they'd be able to keep up without expanding dramatically.

Now if he were smart he'd hire Brandon as a designer rather than fight it out with him over patents. That's a different story though.

[animalcontrol]

Hennessy Hammocks is never going to go back to being a cottage business. It just doesn't work that way. It seems like your expectations are a little unfair. The scale of his business is so completely different from that of 2QZQ that I highly doubt that they'd be able to keep up without expanding dramatically.

Every business owner chooses how to run their business...if Tom H chooses to be the Walmart of hammock makers, that is his choice...and there is nothing wrong about it.
We here are the fringe of campers...we have the luxury of our friends and co-conspirators being on the cutting edge of camping evolution. We as a community invigorate each other by sharing our ideas..successes and failures.
But make no mistake about it, (I'm not even pretending to speak for anyone but myself) I will support ANY business who chooses to support the marketplace by embracing the ideas and innovation of it's customers. That is called customer service. And on the flip side, I will ignore the business owner who tries to stifle the marketplace for his best interest...that is my right as a consumer.
Businesses will move in and out of "cottage" status as they grow and contract...it is the special few who can bridge the gap and support both innovation and the masses.

[Javaman]

All of my favorite gear companies these days are cottage industry types (Mchale Packs, OES, Speer, Minibulldesigns, etc...) but one thing that I've noticed is that all of them, without exception, run into problems with fulfillment of orders.

Look at Tinny at Minibulldesigns. When he goes out hiking, his business comes to a standstill. For him, that's fine, but if he were to partner with someone that was counting on him being there, he'd be in the situation where he'd have to work more hours than he's capable of, or expand.

Hennessy Hammocks is never going to go back to being a cottage business. It just doesn't work that way. It seems like your expectations are a little unfair. The scale of his business is so completely different from that of 2QZQ that I highly doubt that they'd be able to keep up without expanding dramatically.

Now if he were smart he'd hire Brandon as a designer rather than fight it out with him over patents. That's a different story though.

Point noted about 2Q/ZQ. My thoughts were more to the leverage of opportunities, ideas or concepts the market offers that can be turned into innovations that lead to better products and greater traction with customer's.

The idea of HH hiring Brian as a designer, or better yet just buying Brian's company, is exactly to my point. Imagine having the top hammock brand extending into a hammock's most valuable accessory, tarps! Or imagine HH seeing what 2Q/ZQ are doing and partnering on the process, bringing their mods into mainstream HH products for "custom" ordering through a select HH website or set of dealers? ZQ would never have to sew another day in her life since she would be overseeing HH's global quality control (she's really that good).

None of this gets to the value these business owners may find in owning their own company. And it is often the cottage businesses and modders that push innovation forward. My only point is that truly great companies find a way to either innovate themselves, partner with it or buy it while making the customer feel like they just can't live without it. HH prides itself on being an innovator and industry leader - IMHO these recent HH products miss that mark and leave existing customers wanting for more.

[Javaman]

Outstanding 'rant"...couldn't agree more

Thanks. Just looking for more great HH voodoo!

[elcolombianito]

Ok, i can't contain my self, I really tried, but... IM DEEPLY DISAPPOINTED, and im sure many other HH users are too... or plain pissed, can't really tell how to describe my feelings since seeing these pics.

I liked HH (the company, and their products)... I had been waiting anxiously to see, and hopefully purchase, their next new crazy product (hey, the bottom entry slit rocks, and will always rock crazy for me), and since it had been announced they were going to show their new top loading hammock, I really though it would be THEIR VERSION of a top loading hammock. By their version of a top loader I mean I was expecting something... ugh, something just different, different in the sense of the bottom entry slit, or the pockets for the tieout lines on the corner of their Poly hex tarp (yeah, i love those little details)... I just can't see what's their new addition to the toploader type hammocks... the whipping?

I obviously have not had a first hand look of the Deep HH hammocks, but I think those pics and Cannibal's report are enough to tell its nothing you wouldn't get from any other top loader and for less money.... or am i wrong? Ok, maybe the material would make it "unique", but still... Im just sad. I really was expecting something different...

[Coldspring]

W

This seems a weak response by HH, and does not leverage what makes HH particularly unique. In fact, they left out the bottom entry altogether and offered up a lame imitation of 2Q/ZQ's mod. Smarter would have been to partner with ZQ for bug net mods and Mr. Prez for underquilts. Leverage the community, for god's sake. Otherwise you just end up looking desperate.

Who's imitating who? I don't think a zipper on the side of a hammock is a really new innovation. And what is a top loading hammock? I thought all hammocks were top loading before Hennessy made bottom loading hammocks.

So is Hennessy supposed to sew their hammocks up in BC or China, ship them to ZQ for a zipper mod, then have them shipped back for redistribution to many commercial retailers? I'm not taking up for Hennessy, but they are in the business of making money as efficiently and largely as possible, not redistributing their wealth to a couple of garage shop folks. Also, if you haven't noticed, most of the cottage guys don't have a middleman, how much do you think their products would cost if two or three parties were trying to profit?

How many hammocks do you think Hennessy sells a year anyway? I've always wondered. When most people learn about hammocking, they pretty much think Hennessy. They don't say "I'm getting a hammock", they say "I'm getting a Hennessy Hammock".

[2Questions]

Ya know, I'm just glad Hennessy finally got the message! He has a business to keep profitable, to put food on his table. I have a full time job doing other things and then we have this little side biz called "Zipper Mods" to tinker with. At some point in time when all the existing Hennessy's are either worn out and not worth the expense of the zipper mod, or are replaced with Warbonnet's or something else, my efforts will cease.

Hennessy however, unless he can live forever on the income of his past accomplishments, needs to continually evaluate his offereings. If he wants to just sit back and let everyone else do his R&D work, maybe he's smarter than I thought. It's kind of like watching where people walk across the park first before you put in the sidewalks. His business decisions are simple....when to act and how much can he make on the deal.

ZQ and I are glad to have had an impact on Hennessy....What's next? Who knows? With all the creative minds and talents on the forum, and the typical progression/evolution of ideas, there will always be opportunities for folks like us to make a contribution.