Quilts: Modifiable Insulation?

[Izraelius]

I was reading the Down Top Quilt thread and a few comments in there have got me thinking:

Has anyone thought about the idea of making a 4 season quilt but by having one side of the quilt able to open/close to reveal the down, thus giving you an option to add/removed down to fit your trip or season's needs?

Some initial thoughts:
1. What would be the best reclosable seal? ie velcro, press-lock
2. What would be the best way to add/remove accurate amounts of down?
3. Is there a better option? ie layered quilts that attach/detach: two 40* quilts combine to make a ~20* quilt...

I don't have the answers to these but if a good method or solution to this idea is discovered, it could be a game changer in cost and gear use.

What are your thoughts?

[Mountnman]

Down is way to difficult to work with. Especially removing accurate amounts. I suppose you could do this with synthetic insulation.

[SilvrSurfr]

I remember seeing a modular underquilt recently but it seemed like a poor idea. Each baffle was self contained, so you could remove summer baffle and replace with three-season or winter. The thing weighed a ton, as I recall, due to all the material you had to use to make it modular and replaceable.

[WV]

#3 - layered quilts, even though there's bound to be a small weight penalty (which will add to the difficulty of getting a tight suspension that's not too tight).

My answer is to include a thin layer of synthetic insulation, such as Primaloft, as part of the hammock. I sew it around the edges and use quilting loops in the middle. Also the bottom layer and the insulation are made up of irregular panels that form a shape like an occupied hammock, so they fit against the hammock bed with minimal folds, wrinkles, or gaps. This uses less material and seems to make a much warmer hammock for the amount of insulation used. That's the first layer. My current hammocks using this design are warm to about 50° F, for me (I sleep cold).

The second layer is an underquilt (either down or synthetic) that is shaped to fit the hammock using the same pattern that served for the hammock's insulation. It is attached to the underside of the hammock insulation at a dozen points (corresponding to the quilting loops that hold the insulation close to the hammock) so none of the insulation is compressed and there are no air gaps. Also the hammock bed is not distorted by a tight UQ suspension.

In summer, the hammock alone is warm enough. For colder nights, I attach the fitted underquilt. This system is very difficult to make, but perhaps I've made it more complicated than it needs to be. Anyway, the results are so good that it seems worth working on it some more to see if I can make it simpler.

[SilvrSurfr]

WV - sounds interesting, but I wonder why 12 points of attachment? Sounds like a cumbersome component of your system.

[WV]

SS,
Good question. I've wondered if fewer would work as well to hold the two layers together. However, so far attaching or detaching the quilt hasn't seemed burdensome, and I can pack the hammock and quilt already attached, so it's not something I do very often. The multiple attachment points (buttons!) offer flexibility, too. Last summer I needed more insulation on a trip when I hadn't brought the separate underquilt, so I hand-sewed some little bungee loops on the inside of my vest and hooked it to the hammock bottom. It was a smaller area, so I only used 5 or 6 of the buttons. The improvement over any kind of suspension attachment from the ends of a hammock or from a ridge line is well worth it. I probably will try to work toward a simpler version eventually, though.

[dirtwheels]

I've been thinking that the syn to the hammock was the more logical way to go on the 1st layer of insulation for a layered approach as well. I like the sound of your approach. Have you been able to reduce the material required for the insulation with that design? It seems to me that there would be considerable savings. Could you share any information pics or patterns on how you've sewn the synthetic insulation assembly?

Thanks!

SS,
Good question. I've wondered if fewer would work as well to hold the two layers together. However, so far attaching or detaching the quilt hasn't seemed burdensome, and I can pack the hammock and quilt already attached, so it's not something I do very often. The multiple attachment points (buttons!) offer flexibility, too. Last summer I needed more insulation on a trip when I hadn't brought the separate underquilt, so I hand-sewed some little bungee loops on the inside of my vest and hooked it to the hammock bottom. It was a smaller area, so I only used 5 or 6 of the buttons. The improvement over any kind of suspension attachment from the ends of a hammock or from a ridge line is well worth it. I probably will try to work toward a simpler version eventually, though.

[Canoefor2]

I could see a down quilt where the summer or mid range quilt is designed like a double hammock and the winter change would be a quilt that you place between the two lighter quilts. The suspension would be on the mid quilt which is the double and therefore you would have to change any suspension issues.

[olddog]

Izraelius, I've only recently acquired some down quilts and have never made any. In the past I had been using a 3 component TQ system. Outer layer a polyester wind breaker. Inner layers a polyester diy quilt similar to a poncho liner in thickness but lighter and a fleece layer. All have sewn foot boxes and sleeve together as needed. In the past I carried what would be needed for the expected temps of the hike. Now that I have a summer series TQ from Wilderness Logic the fleece has been relegated to my every night blanket at home. Huge weight savings on the trail. Still need to do some experimenting with layering the SSTQ with the diy quilt and the wind breaker top cover. The expectations are that with one or both poly layers the SSTQ should get me thru any cold we get down here in Florida.

[WV]

I've been thinking that the syn to the hammock was the more logical way to go on the 1st layer of insulation for a layered approach as well. I like the sound of your approach. Have you been able to reduce the material required for the insulation with that design? It seems to me that there would be considerable savings.

Yes, I believe it cuts down on materials, and the hammock is lighter than my earlier ones that just had longitudinal down-filled tubes the same size as the hammock bed.

Could you share any information pics or patterns on how you've sewn the synthetic insulation assembly?

I'll be glad to share. I encourage others to try the stuff I've experimented with. That's the good news. The bad news is that I haven't documented this stage because I'm still working out better ways of doing it. The next hammock should be slightly less complicated to make, and I'll try to do a photo/video show-and-tell to post here. Meanwhile I'll tell you what works, in part, so you can start testing if you wish.

It's pretty easy to sew sheets of insulation such as Primaloft or Climashield to ripstop nylon. The nylon goes on top so the insulation doesn't catch on the presser foot. It doesn't seem to catch in the feed dogs underneath at all. I make a shaped insulating layer by sewing together panels. Spraying a very light coating of 3M Super77 adhesive on the fabric first keeps the insulation from moving around until its sewn. I avoid spraying the edges, where I'll be sewing, for fear of gumming up the needle. (In future I think I'll glue the insulation to the fabric, then cut out the panels together - part of my simplification process. ) Then I sew the panels together to make the curved shape. I know, that's the part you wanted me to clarify. Sorry, even in it's eventual "simplified" version, it will seem to most a demonically complicated undertaking. I'll need pics to get it across. Instead, I suggest taking a semi-proven UQ design with darts on the sides and ends, adding insulation to a piece of fabric approximately the right size and shape, and pinning the darts with someone in the hammock, then sewing the darts and then sewing the edges to the hammock. To sew the darts, put a strip of newspaper on top of the work and sew through it so the insulation doesn't catch in the presser foot. The newspaper will come off easily when the seam is done. Before you attach the insulating layer to the hammock bed, decide where you want to put quilting loops, and put tiny iron-on reinforcing patches on the underside of the hammock bed to keep the heavy thread of the quilting loops from tearing the lighter nylon. The other ends of the quilting loops get fastened to the fabric of the bottom layer. That's also where the buttons go, so when you attach another quilt it's suspended from the hammock and doesn't change the way the insulating layer fits. Then sew the edges to the hammock. What about the ends? It's a mystery. Invent something.