Double Lark's head vs figure 8 knot

**Trebor** · 04-05-2014, 10:38

Hi all,

Might sound funny for some advanced hangers, I was wondering which one of these 2 is better, until l I convert to more " dedicated " hardware like Dutch clips and looped straps.

I am mainly interested in these aspects:

1.safety
2.rope conservation
3.ease of adjustability

The rope is the stock one that came with the HH Explorer, some sort of dyneema I think.

Would gladly try any other suggestions that doesn't involve additional hardware, a. i. other knots that would work better in this situation. Thanks!

**Nodust** · 04-05-2014, 10:48

They both should work. I would use the figure eight, we use that in high angle rescue training. A clove hitch may also work and would be easier adjusted than either, just make sure to back it up with a safety.

**dkurfiss** · 04-05-2014, 10:52

I can't speak to the Larks Head knot but I have used the figure 8 on the bight a lot. I can say the figure 8 on the bight is tough to untie after it has been under pressure. The figure 8 showing by HH in their videos is a good method for the stock suspension but is tough to adjust.

I also have a HH with stock suspension and after using the stock HH method which is a figure 8 (not on the bight) for almost a year I switch over to using rings on the stock suspension. Here is the method I am using: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iJTjful66M and I tie in a half hitch once I have the suspension in place. So far, no slipping.

**gmcttr** · 04-05-2014, 11:10

Try the Slipped Buntline Hitch.

**dougalcorn** · 04-05-2014, 16:29

Originally Posted by dkurfiss

I can't speak to the Larks Head knot but I have used the figure 8 on the bight a lot. I can say the figure 8 on the bight is tough to untie after it has been under pressure.

When climbing, we use a figure 8 to connect harness to the belay. It gets super tight after a climb and your arms are super spongie. One trick is to take the free end and loop it back through the near eye of the eight. The trick is to leave the slack in that last loop. It will still cinch down tight, but the last loop should be easier to pull out and loosen the whole knot.

**Bushwhacker** · 04-05-2014, 16:43

Originally Posted by dougalcorn

When climbing, we use a figure 8 to connect harness to the belay. It gets super tight after a climb and your arms are super spongie. One trick is to take the free end and loop it back through the near eye of the eight. The trick is to leave the slack in that last loop. It will still cinch down tight, but the last loop should be easier to pull out and loosen the whole knot.

That... seems terrifyingly dangerous. How do you know it doesn't ruin the integrity of the knot?

**dougalcorn** · 04-05-2014, 17:34

Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

That... seems terrifyingly dangerous. How do you know it doesn't ruin the integrity of the knot?

I must not have described or photographed it well if it seems terrifyingly dangerous. I learned it at the climb gym where I was certified for climbing and belaying on top rope and lead climbing. I've climbed, fallen, and been lowered on this knot many times. There's very nearly zero chance of this knot failing due to the loop back.

There's no weight bearing on the line that's looped back through. All the weight is born by the other three ex trending strands. It doesn't alter the path or add any additional turns in either figure eight. It just causes the figure eight to cinch down on an extra strand of rope.

**OSULumberjack** · 04-06-2014, 00:00

Do you guys not back up your figure 8's anymore either? I was talking to someone the other day that was telling me you don't have to. When I was climbing it was always a requirement to put the safety knot above the 8.

**Nodust** · 04-06-2014, 00:06

Originally Posted by OSULumberjack

Do you guys not back up your figure 8's anymore either? I was talking to someone the other day that was telling me you don't have to. When I was climbing it was always a requirement to put the safety knot above the 8.

We do in industrial rescue.

**dougalcorn** · 04-06-2014, 03:51

Originally Posted by OSULumberjack

Do you guys not back up your figure 8's anymore either? I was talking to someone the other day that was telling me you don't have to. When I was climbing it was always a requirement to put the safety knot above the 8.

No, if I put in the loop back I won't put in a back up. The loop back serves as a lock once the figure 8 has cinched down.

I guess I don't understand the ways the figure 8 could fail that an extra overhand know would help. I read injury reports from time to time. I'm not sure I've heard of an injury from the figure eight failing. Maybe someone can help me understand the risks better.