Underquilt Advice (and any other) Wanted

[watercamper]

Hi all!

My wife and I finally made it out on our first backpack of the season. I had a busy winter sewing a couple of lightweight sil-nylon hammocks, 2 Insultex 3/4 length underquilts per the instructions here or over at DIY Gear Supply and 1 cat tarp so far (the other is still in the sewing room). I've attached 2 photos from this weekend so you have proof of at least part of my work.

We headed up into the mountains about 8 miles and camped at 5100' or so. We were on a small bench and there were limited trees of the correct distance apart to work with. The bench was at the confluence of 2 creeks. Snow level was around 6000' on the north faces. There was a stiff breeze most of the night. We weren't able to orient a side of the tarp to the breeze as we would have done if we were on the ground so for both of us, the breeze was able to blow through. The temperature at 5:30 am was 35° and dropped to 33° by 6:30.

My normal gear for ground camping for these conditions would be: 2 person tarp, 30° down bag, Neoair, tyvek gc. My wife would be the same except for a 25° bag. I would wear a midweight capilene bottom and top, a balaclava later in the morning and a lightweight synthetic ski hat. I would have a lightweight down jacket to slip on if needed. Ditto for my wife. For this trip we each brought a heavyweight capilene bottom and midweight tops and wore them and the down jackets, hats, etc. We used the bags as top quilts with our 3/8" CCF sitpads stuffed into the bottom. She got into her bag sometime during the night and zipped it up. I never got around to that but should have. The only thing I didn't put on was my wind jacket. I don't usually bring any extra clothing.

This was our very first hang and we had no backup plans! The hammock system had to work. BTW, I used my normal 2 person tarp as I hadn't had time to finish my cat tarp.

The distance between her trees was around 18' so she had to reach as high as she could to put up the tree straps. By the time she got the hang she wanted (around 100" ridgeline), she was almost on the ground. I fared a little better. My trees were around 17' apart and I could reach a bit higher. I was still somewhat lower than I would want when I finally got my 100" RL.

We both suffered from CBS (in this case, Cold Body Syndrome). Not cold spots but a general feeling of cold on the back of the legs, butt & back. Nothing overly dramatic - not the shivering kind of cold but we would have preferred to be warmer. We had no more clothes to put on. We think we adjusted the UQ's fairly well and couldn't find gaps and they felt like they were resting up against the bottom of the hammock but not squeezed tight.

Based on the following trip information, what could we do to stay warmer? Maybe for us, we've reached the limit of the 3 layer Insultex? I have some 1/8" CCF that I could cut to add as a 4th layer when needed or I could simply buy some more Insultex, add some velcro in the corners and add it to create a 4th layer. Good idea? Any other thoughts? These conditions that we encountered are the type that we can find in the mountains of Idaho, Wyoming and California well into June and maybe July so we have to be able to handle them. Of course, it could easily be in the teens or snowing or raining or ... My other thought is to just make down quilts but I didn't want to spend the money and not like hanging (see below)

On a side note, my wife was comfy aside from the cold. Me, not so much. I was dreaming of my NeoAir. We both have 10' DIY gathered end hammocks made via Ron Mehringer's YouTube Video. I'm 5'10", 150 lb, she's 5'3", 125 lb. Every time I got up, I played with the sag - a little more, a little less, etc. I still had this "wall" of hammock fabric against the inner leg just below the knee. I also had that feeling of hyperextension of the knee. I used some rolled up gear to try and relieve this, tried the "ballerina" position, one foot over another, etc. I also tried the foot high and body level positions. I was moving around all night (sure slept soundly the following night at home!!!). I also had the feeling of my shoulders being squeezed together. Any advice for me to get more comfortable would be appreciated. I sure want this system to work. Oh - I just used Derek's sag calculator and it says that I should shoot for a 105" RL. I hope to try this soon. Thanks in advance for your words of wisdom.

[gunner76]

You have learned an important lesson....always test your gear before heading out.

Can not tell from the pictures if the UQs ends are snug against the ends of the hammocks or not. If there was a gap, that gap could let cold air in.

You could also set the tarp sides lower to the ground to help keep some of the wind out.

Look into UQP from 2QZQ at http://www.2qzqhammockhanger.com/ham...cessories.html

Another option is to consider a Hammock Sock

And get or make a down UQ good to 20 degrees

[mrjaw14]

I'd say that if you have shoulder squeeze your hammock isn't sagging enough and thus not allowing you to get diagonal enough to open it up some, or your hammock is too narrow for you. May have to play with it until you're comfortable.

As far as CBS, I looked into insultex but decided to go with something else because insultex MUST have air gaps between layers to work. I'd look into down, or Climashield Apex. Take a look at arrowhead equipment's jarbridge or new river synthetic underquilts. They're priced pretty good for a synthetic underquilt, or you can kick it $100 and go with a duck down model from another vendor. Climashield is single layer, so it's less finicky than IX you're using. Also remember that a 30o rated sleeping bag is often optimistic in what it can do, especially when hammock camping. You can try the hot water bottle trick, that works well for 4-6 hours I find.

Congrats on your first hang, you'll really like it if you can dial in your setup. If you cant get comfy then soemthing's not right somewhere. you'll have to judge if spending some money vs what you can do yourself is worth it. For me, I'm going to spend a little on a nice hammock and an underquilt, either down or synthetic because I've done DIY stuff and never been completely satisfied with it. Also, if you have a woman that'll hang with you you're blessed...I can't get mine out in the back country to save my life!

[youbet]

Cold body syndrome, Full lenght underquilt, down, apex... it will take some trial and error. shoulder squeeze, calf rigde. try a bridge hammock or a cat cut hammock like simply light designs streamliner, maybe longer wider hammock? +1 on the underquilt protector, jacksrbetter style has one made from a dri ducks poncho you could diy. Also maybe try the ccf pad or reflectix pad. Or maybe try a double layer hammock and your neo air. Im a cold sleeper, and have calf ridge problems. I sleep better in a hammock with no ridgeline than with one. More over it took me a bit of trial and error to sleep warmer, dont give up you will get it!.

[Wolf]

You might try some Griz Beaks on the ends of the tarps. They work wonders at keeping the breeze out.

[boulderv7]

There is a fiddle factor, but well worth it. For calf-ridge pressure, which I think you are describing when you say "inner wall of fabric against the inner leg just below the knee", try rewhipping your hammock, or look into a mini-spreader bar, or a longer hammock. As far as being cold....I'd say your UQs weren't snugged up right at the ends, or were just not adequate for the temp and wind conditions. I have no experience with insultex, but I have heard it needs space to work, maybe not enough space there for the temps? Another thing....you stated your hammocks are sil-nylon. If they are, they may be acting as vapor barriers, i.e. they don't breath at all. Typically, hammocks are made with breathable material to let your body moisture pass through as you sleep. You may have been collecting moisture in your cloths and on your skin, causing a cooling effect, making you cold. Vapor barriers can be used effectively to stay warm, but you typically want them close to your skin, so the moisture doesn't get the chance to get into your insulation. That MAY have been an issue, if your hammocks are indeed sil-nylon. Or it may not have been an issue at all. Moisture management is like that, finicky. Best of luck, once you figure out what works, you'll sleep amazing in the outdoors.

[HammockHunter]

Trial and error. Then more trial and more error. It took me a while to like sleeping the night in a hammock. Stick with it and it will get better and better as you get your gear right. Hammocking Is way more technical than just laying on the ground, but well worth it.
My $.02

[watercamper]

My bad on the hammock material. It's not silnylon. It's lightweight, breathable 1.1 oz ripstop. Fingers got ahead of the brain.

[hutzelbein]

My first underquilt was an Insultex underquilt. I never got enough warmth out of it. And that was during summer... I made the switch to a down underquilt pretty quickly, and never looked back. Actually, the sleeping pad in the hammock worked way better than my Insultex uq. I think there is a reason why Insultex is not overly popular anymore.

With regards to the hammock height: just hang your suspension higher! A structural ridgeline will help, too, because you can pull the suspension tighter without compromising the sag. The best option would be to find trees closer together, though.

For your calf ridge problem, I would say, try an 11' hammock. If you wanted to continue using your 10' hammock, look into mini-spreader bars. I never tried those, but I hear they help. Adding a footbox might help as well.

[pinballwizard]

From your pics, it seems that your tarp setup can be tightened up a lot. You may want to play with that and see, but it looks like you could be closer to the room of the tarp, having the sides go further down around you. And the closer the tarp sides are to the ground, the less wind is blowing in from those directions. I thought the grizz beaks was a good idea too, but you may want to try at least playing with your pitch to see if there is a sharper angle that allows less air to be blowing in from the ends. I agree with everyone on here, especially the very first response: There is a lot to play with, so you may want to take time in the backyard with a book or something. It's much easier to isolate and discover what your gear's limitations are, or how to make them perform most effectively, when you're not out in the field. You can pinpoint and learn whether it's the pitch of the tarp, or the contact of the UQ, or both. Same goes for your lay. It's not as much fun to get up every 10 minutes to adjust your ridgeline an inch tighter or looser, when you are trying to get a nights rest after a day on the trail, than just hanging out back, (or the park right down the road if you live in an apt). With that, I would suggest making an adjustable, structural ridgeline, so you do not have to rehang to change the sag. Play with that, along with the angle you lay at (be the minute hand on a clock, ticking your body back and forth within your hammock), to find what angle and sag works best for you
Very Nice DIYs though. I would not tell the guy who made all that nice looking gear in one winter to run out and buy stuff. However, you may want to consider buying bulk down and make your own down quilts.
WHatever you do, you're on the right path. Now is just the tweaking part. Again, great job on the DIYs