DIY climashield apex underquilt, torso length, 3/4, diff cut.

[mr tickle]

As per the title i am looking to make an underquilt, two in fact. One single layer and one double layer using climashield apex 133 gsm (gm^2).


The first in no doubt a long line of questions :P

1) Do you have a pattern for cutting the darts for both 1 and 2 layers of climashield and the shell? I am not at all sure just how much 'slack' i should be adding with each layer, i am worried if i add too much i will get air pockets, not enough and i may as well not have bothered.

2) How do you join the climashielt at the darts without compressing it? Fabric tape?

3) What do you think of these designs? As in which is the better design?

http://maceachain.blogspot.co.uk/201...r-quilt-2.html
http://www.cwhammocks.com/diy-underquilt-instructions/

4) Both of these are listed as 3oz climashield, but are actually just rounded. Which is the one commonly referred to as 3oz in the states? One is 25mm thick, the other 19mm.

http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/C...sqm::2069.html
http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/C...sqm::1773.html

This is purely so i can calculate an estimated temp rating from information billbob has posted in other, very useful threads.


5) This is my choice of shell fabrics:

http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/Fabrics:::21.html

There are all sorts, 3 ply nylon, aluminised, bionic, downproof ripstop, 'parachute nylon' (dunno if this is silnylon as they also sell that); the list goes on and on. All i had in mind was ripstop nylon, i know nothing about fabric, what would you recommend from this site for inner/outer shells?

6) Aluminised nylon inner or outer shell..

http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/R...sqm::1387.html

What would be the pro's and cons? I figure it might just be a waste as it only reduces radiated heat loss and i sleep in thermals. I have however heard good review of the use of mylar in a hennessy supershelter, so am curious. I am awaiting technical data from the supplier as to whether it is breathable so ultimately it will come down to that, but ask this on the assumption it will breath sufficiently.

Thank you for reading

[mr tickle]

I will hopefully be ordering some fabric tomorrow, if i can decide what to get. It would be really great if someone with proper knowledge could get me on the right track with fabric choice.

These are the first few options that came to mind:

Inner:
Aluminised - http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/R...sqm::1387.html
Looks a bit thin, or rather light for something covered in aluminium. Perhaps not hard wearing?

Outer:
Bionic reactive - http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/3...stop::645.html
or
Ripstop Laminate (a bit heavy) - http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/2...sqm::1977.html

Or, Both:
Downproof ripstop http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/N...sqm::1518.html

I am thinking the aluminised and/or bionic may be a bad choice, the bionic looks perhaps better suited to an underquilt protector and as mentioned above i am unsure if the aluminised will add much benefit.

The downproof is not listed as being breathable however, it also says windproof, so i have my reservations over condensation here. I was looking for plain ripstop for this option but i can't seem to find it. Just 'parachute' nylon and fancy named stuff.

I cannot find DWR or Pertex on the site, although they seem to list their fabrics using technical names so it could be there but i just don't know it. It probably is there, i know a vendor who buys from here that uses pertex. The closest i can find is the laminated ripstop listed above. Ideally i am looking for a shell that will be resistant to wet dogs brushing up against it on occasion.

If you have time, this is the site i was hoping to get everything from:
http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/

Cheers

[mr tickle]

I have found Pertex 6, although it is double the weight of calendered ripstop. I am almost sold this is the route to take, if it will remove the need for an underquilt protector.

http://www.profabrics.co.uk/products...-/0000733.html

If i use this will it replace the need for an underquilt protector as a wind break/splash guard? I really have no idea how weatherproof this stuff is compared to a calendered ripstop and pertex is double the weight.

Also, will condensation be an issue if i use pertex for the inner shell? As in does it only breath one way?

I have basically boiled it down to either Pertex 6 or the calendered ripstop for both sides. I might use the aluminium fabric as an inner shell or a lining for the top side if someone gives it the thumbs up (durability/breathability).

I am otherwise good to go, i just need to get the fabric ordered

Any and all advice welcome, cheers.

[Insaniac99]

I wish I had answers to your questions, I might try my hand at making an UQ myself soon enough...

[m_urbanawiz]

I don't have experience with all the fabrics you mentioned, but I'll give you my thoughts based on making a number of UQs and TQs. Since you are using climashield, everything else about the construction can be simplified compared to any other insulation (down or primaloft).

First, I haven't need to do a differential cut on my Climashield quilts. The darts from the links you posted are to shape the quilt so it has a 3-dimensional bowl like shape and cup the bottom of the quilt, not so that the outer layer is larger than the inner layer. With down, the differential cut helps a lot, partly because there are so many baffles relative to the overall area. Since climashield only needs to be sewn on the perimeter, a differential cut doesn't add much (unless your insulation is a lot thicker than you are planning).

As far as the material, I expect that the aluminiumized fabric will not breath very much and will instead be more of a vapor barrier (I've never worked with it).

For the UQ I would either just use the ripstop (which is what I have done for my UQs). If you expect to hammocking mostly in an area with a lot of windblown rain or very minimal tarp coverage, the most I would do would be Pertex as the outer (bottom) shell and use ripstop for the shell where it will be against the hammock. That way, even if you got condensation it shouldn't make you feel clammy. Ripstop with DWR is probably enough for most people for an UQ.

As far as your concerns about weatherproofing the UQ, I think that is much less of a concern than it would be with down. Climashield will still insulate even if it got a wet from splashes (I would be a lot more concerned about this for a down UQ). Most of my UQs use climashield and regular ripstop nylon without a DWR coating, and they work fine. I know that some here use UQ protectors, but for my uses (southeastern US where you don't get a lot of wind blown rain), it hasn't been necessary.

As far as your question about DWR, it looks like the site has some lightweight ripstop nylon with DWR (http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/R...sqm::1555.html or http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/R...sqm::1972.html). It looks like it refers to DWR as "FC-impregnated."

If you were looking at making a down UQ instead, you should look at the 10d fabric they have (http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/R...sqm::1680.html). I don't think the weight savings on a synthetic quilt are worth it though. (I love my Argon down TQ--can't say enough about it).

[mr tickle]

I don't have experience with all the fabrics you mentioned, but I'll give you my thoughts based on making a number of UQs and TQs. Since you are using climashield, everything else about the construction can be simplified compared to any other insulation (down or primaloft).

First, I haven't need to do a differential cut on my Climashield quilts. The darts from the links you posted are to shape the quilt so it has a 3-dimensional bowl like shape and cup the bottom of the quilt, not so that the outer layer is larger than the inner layer. With down, the differential cut helps a lot, partly because there are so many baffles relative to the overall area. Since climashield only needs to be sewn on the perimeter, a differential cut doesn't add much (unless your insulation is a lot thicker than you are planning).

As far as the material, I expect that the aluminiumized fabric will not breath very much and will instead be more of a vapor barrier (I've never worked with it).

For the UQ I would either just use the ripstop (which is what I have done for my UQs). If you expect to hammocking mostly in an area with a lot of windblown rain or very minimal tarp coverage, the most I would do would be Pertex as the outer (bottom) shell and use ripstop for the shell where it will be against the hammock. That way, even if you got condensation it shouldn't make you feel clammy. Ripstop with DWR is probably enough for most people for an UQ.

As far as your concerns about weatherproofing the UQ, I think that is much less of a concern than it would be with down. Climashield will still insulate even if it got a wet from splashes (I would be a lot more concerned about this for a down UQ). Most of my UQs use climashield and regular ripstop nylon without a DWR coating, and they work fine. I know that some here use UQ protectors, but for my uses (southeastern US where you don't get a lot of wind blown rain), it hasn't been necessary.

As far as your question about DWR, it looks like the site has some lightweight ripstop nylon with DWR (http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/R...sqm::1555.html or http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/R...sqm::1972.html). It looks like it refers to DWR as "FC-impregnated."

If you were looking at making a down UQ instead, you should look at the 10d fabric they have (http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/R...sqm::1680.html). I don't think the weight savings on a synthetic quilt are worth it though. (I love my Argon down TQ--can't say enough about it).

Hi, thanks for the helpful information.

Regarding the bathtub shape, would using the standard IX quilt design [http://gear-report.com/wp-content/up...60-3layer.jpg] give the correct shape, or, what size cuts would you use to achieve the shape? I figure the length and width of the darts must be relative to the length in order to get the correct shape. Also, do you just stitch the cuts together and accept the compression in the climashield or do you bond it somehow? I have seen mention of 'scrim tape', would this bond such joints or have i misunderstood what that is?

I was going to do the diff cut as a matter of course since my oval synthetic has been having issues with compression points no matter how it's hung, although i believe that to be more in the oval shape than anything else (it is not darted to be oval, it is cut like that). I figured out how to do that now though (i think) after sitting with a pen and paper, i just need to add this to the width of the outer shell [and reduce the length of the darts]: (loft height x 2) + 50%.

Cheers for having a look on that site for me and finding DWR! I have ordered samples of the fabrics you linked, as well as the aluminium (they claim it is breathable in a recent email). I also got a sample of this [http://www.extremtextil.de/catalog/2...qm::1977.html] which i think is pertex? Although i can get something elsewhere named as pertex 6 [http://www.profabrics.co.uk/products.../0000733.html], although they offered no samples.

The main reason i was looking for integrated underquilt protection is that i often use a minimal tarp expecting calm weather then get hit by wind [200-300 miles away from home]. I am stubborn and prefer to pack light and get the view. My current UQP which i tend to leave behind weighs 500g, so i figured i could possibly kill two birds with one stone and save a bit of weight or wind. Also my dogs have a habbit of getting everything messy, wet and smelly. I figured perhaps pertex would be an all in one fix, but am unsure whether i would still be better just using a new silnylon UQP with a nylon shell UQ.

I am currently leaning towards the nylon inner with either the pertex or dwr outer if it will hold up.

I do have more time than expected to plan now though, i spent my budget on weight savings for my next trip [water filter and storage] which will save 1-2 kg (thus allowing me to carry a spare pad and my UQP this trip). So this will now be rolled along to next month in prep for the following trip. Still gonna happen, i am making a prototype this week from some unused thick fleece, so i have more planning time (which is probably needed anyway to avoid making a mess of things).

Thanks very much for the advice, stu.

[Swede2378]

I have recently done a project with my students at school where we made 14 (!) Climashield UQs. I used the inside out method, and 1.1 ripstop for both the inside and outside, the outside layer was DWR as I recall, but not 100%. The ripstop ended up being a bit larger than the Climashield, and we just folded the ripstop around the Climashield, made sewing a bit easier because we had ripstop on both the top and bottom, so that neither the presser foot or the feed dogs were in contact with the Climashield. So for all practical purposes, the ripstop ended up being the same size as the Climashield with no darts for the shape. The quilts ended up being so soft they followed the curve of the hammock like a glove, glad that I didn't try putting in any darts, they would have been overkill, the Climashield kind of just forms itself. I have used darts on IX and down, as mentioned above, but I would seriously recommend skipping it for this UQ, you wont need it. +1 on the getting Climashield wet, I have read about how well it maintains it's ability to keep you warm even when wet. I don't know if I would attempt throwing it in the washing machine, but using a wet towel to remove dirt from your dogs shouldn't be a problem. We had them in Sweden in pouring rain using tarps that were EXACTLY enough, and none of the kids complained about being cold.

[mr tickle]

Cheers for the info swede. It is good to hear the DWR will hold up to the dogs abusing it, do you have any experience with pertex as a comparison? I especially like the idea of folding the nylon around the climashield first, that really simplifies things with both compression of the synthetic and piecing it together if i understood it correctly. I will consider this for the final model. How did you do your suspension channels? Grosgain lapped around the edges?

====

Update on the prototype:

I started with a large rectangle and cut it down until i was happy with the size, i am currently at 40" x 49" and reluctant to trim any more off. I am toying with the idea of shortening it a little but in all honesty i think the extra few inches give me a bit more flexibility with having my arms or legs in different positions. I don't think i would need anything other than a sit pad for my feet, but am undecided. It could be a bit of a halfway house at this length in that i should probably bite bullet and make it shorter, but i can't help but feel that a pad wont suffice when i decide to put my legs in a triangle and my knee would get cold. Any thoughts on this? The width is spot on though, plenty to cover my shoulders etc and just enough to accommodate the 'fetal position'. I am an athletic/skinny built 6'1" male, to give you an idea what the quilt is catering for.

I have darted it, two darts at each end, so far approx 12" x 2" in imperial measures (i work in mm so give or take). It is almost snug without any need for shock cord at the foot end, with noticeable slack t the head end. I must say i actually like the way it makes it feel snug with minimal fabric waste and the shape seems to look good so far (not like a frankenstein monster), it all just looks proportional and neat. I am going to toy around and make them an inch or two wider and longer at each end, so they have just a little slack for the shock cord to take up.

Compared to my old quilt i actually think i would take my prototype over the snugpak, it is made out of very thick fleece, iro 10mm thick and still weighs less than the full length snugpak. Basically if you are using a snugpak and want a 3/4 you can use even the heaviest of insulation and still win by a notable amount [i am at 700g with no shell opposed to the weight of the snugpak @1300g, i will land approx]. I might even use a microfibre inner shell on this ich ill land it at 900-1000g, yes it will be heavy, but it is still gonna be lighter than the snugpak and will serve well as a spare when i get the final model made. I reckon this could maybe actually see me close or below freezing if i add the microfibre, it feels just as warm and is a better fit than the snugpak without it. In fact right now i don't want to get out of the hammock as i am getting the trademark warmth holding me in With a lighter insulation like climashield it is going to be pure win for my needs.

Fleece is so far a bugger to cut, all my measures are within 3 mm though so i am pleased enough with that for a first run and it has a little give so i don't think it will show at all.

Once i get the darts finalised and get the shell somewhere near i will give another update, but so far my confidence level has shot up and am feeling a lot more positive about getting a final model done.

[Swede2378]

We used grossgrain folded in between the layers of 1.1. It made it look really professional when we turned it inside out again. I can try to put up some pictures, I have described the process a bit in one of my threads about the project. I think we ended up with 100cm wide and 150cm long and they came in at 400g.

[mr tickle]

Don't worry about pics, i have that pictured in my head. Thanks for the offer though. I will have a look at the market tomorrow and see if i can snap some up, it would save a bit of work making the channels from scratch.