Is "downproof" on Argon literal?

**Timmerton** · 06-21-2014, 19:35

Hi guys,

First post here, and very new to hammocks in general. My first hammock was the Grand Trunk Ultralight a couple of years ago and now I'm putting together an actual camping setup. HG quilts with a Warbonnet BB XLC, and Edge tarp. I had ordered a MacCat tarp from OES a couple weeks ago, but that's a different story....should have done my research on that first.

To get to the point... A couple weeks ago I ordered and received a couple quilts that HG had on hand. I'm not sure if they were blems or customer returns, but Jenny offered to sell them to me at a discount and was able to get them shipped immediately which was awesome, especially considering the typical wait times for new gear right now. I got a Burrow 20 in Green/Black and an Incubator 40 in camo/black. They both seem really nice with a couple of exceptions. There are a couple of small tears in the stitching in the Incubator on the inside that I've seen so far. That's fine, I can fix those myself once I figure out the best way to to it.

The thing that is really bothering me though, is that on the outside of the Burrow, the green fabric, I've noticed a lot of down coming out of it. It's not just the seams, it's through the actual panels. Is this normal? I haven't noticed any coming through the camo, and very little if any in the black material on both. So I'm wondering if the green fabric in the model I have is made of something other than Argon, although it doesn't look drastically different. And from what I can gather, the camo fabric is made of Argon 90, not 67, so would that account for why it doesn't let any down through where the Argon 67 would?

I'm just wondering what my expectations should be here. I sent a couple emails to them about this but have not heard back, but now that I'm reading on the forum it doesn't sound too out of the ordinary. I'm considering asking to return the Burrow 20 and order a new one. Argon is described as being a downproof material and this just does not seem downproof in the slightest. It bugs me when I take the quilt out of the bag or fluff it up and I see little pieces of down flying around.

Anyway if you guys that have experience with their products could chime in I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm going on an overnight backpacking trip starting tomorrow so I probably won't be able to revisit this until Monday night or Tuesday. Thanks!

**Dutch** · 06-21-2014, 20:14

If the fabric on your quilt is ARGON then it is the same ARGON on the inside as the outside. The black, brown, green, and grey were all a natural color at one time and then they were dyed. That is not to say that a piece of down can't find its way out and there is always a few non-down quills in a batch. I produce the ARGON fabric and we have had great success with it being downproof. Down quilts is it's designed purpose. If you are having trouble with your quilt and it is more than just a couple feathers, then by all means send it back.

**BroChaos** · 06-23-2014, 21:05

i definitely see a bit poking through every now and then, i have a green/titanium 20* incubator and burrow. i know others have said this, and i really don't know if it's true, but it does seem to get better with time. whenever i do see one, i always pull it back through from the other side. but in the grand scheme of things, i don't think you will ever lose enough for it to be a factor.

**Timmerton** · 06-24-2014, 12:00

Hey guys, thanks for the replies! I took it on an overnight trip to test it out and see if it would be a problem. I'm not sure what the deal is, maybe it's an older version and not ARGON material. It doesn't have a gray footbox (maybe that's the sewn model only) or logo at the end so I'm thinking it might be an older model. At night when I was getting into the hammock I had my headlight on and I could see lots of little down pieces floating around inside the bug net as I was getting situated. I get a few big pieces of down that come through, and lots of little ones too. It just doesn't seem quite right to me, especially considering I have seen no such thing on the ARGON 90 camo fabric. Although I slept quite comfortably with it I think I will give them a call and see if I can exchange it for a new one. Here are some pictures, I've tried pulling big ones back in but the down just keeps coming out.
tw5.jpg tq4.jpg tq3.jpg tq2.jpg tq1.jpg

**dave.macluskie** · 06-24-2014, 12:12

My DIY underquilt is made from the "ultralight Argon" (argon67, green and black if it matters) and I haven't noticed any leakage from the quilt (though I still find fluffs of down in corners of the bathroom where I stuffed it). Your photos are often near a seam. I wonder if that's related.

**Dutch** · 06-24-2014, 19:42

I'm almost positive that is not ARGON. You can't see the ripstop grid that easily on the ARGON 67.

**Timmerton** · 06-25-2014, 11:39

I spoke with Adam today on the phone today and he'll be taking care of it. Thanks for your thoughts on the matter Dutch.

**RFlyer** · 06-26-2014, 13:48

For the future, if you start to see down coming through your quilt, try and pull it back in from the opposing side versus pulling it out of the quilt.

**Timmerton** · 06-26-2014, 13:50

Originally Posted by RFlyer

For the future, if you start to see down coming through your quilt, try and pull it back in from the opposing side versus pulling it out of the quilt.

Yeah, I had actually done that on a bunch of them. They just kept coming out though, too much to keep up with. I could see having to do that every now and then, but this seemed a bit extreme.

**Rivendell Refugee** · 06-26-2014, 16:25

Never had a "peeky" down on any of our ARGON Insulhammocks,,Using 850 wp and 900 standard down. however on my older 1.1 Coyote Insulhammocks it was an Occasional occurance.