Soak Permethrin Treating for Hammock

**Billiard Pete** · 07-20-2014, 13:13

Is this safe, and what is the best brand to buy for soaking (Sawyer spray didn't work well on cloths???

**hk2001** · 07-20-2014, 13:42

I find it best to dump the $15 and have it professionally treated by Insect Shield, as I talked about here I've had a few hammocks treated, and they come out great.. zero smell, zero worry, and the industrial strength treatment is pretty much good for the life of the hammock.

That being said, I use Martin's Permethrin for dunking clothes.. I found a seller on Amazon that will ship to NY, and there's a little smell that goes away after the first wash cycle.

**Rolloff** · 07-20-2014, 18:29

It sure is safer than the bad stuff skeeters and ticks have for you.

Sawyers works great, many others will save you a bit of money. Some smell some don't. Bed bug treatment usually has the correct strength, and doesn't carry a smell.

The trick with the Sawyers spray vs the soak method, is to go over the two sets of clothes it is designed to treat, and simply keep going over them evenly until you've saturated the garments. You have to build up a certain level of absorbtion on the molecular level before it will work. It's also why the soak method is vastly superior IMHO.

Soaking also allows you to do suspensions and such items, w'o a bunch of wasted over spray. From a particulate stand point soaking almost completly eliminates the airborne aspect of treatment. Spray encourages it. Probably not a good practice when chemical distribution is being considered.

**SirLips** · 07-21-2014, 08:22

Heres the skinny, as reported on many many other threads here, other sites and general "google" searches.

Permethrin is safe. period. However there are a few things to keep in mind, just like with any other chemical.

A) it is very bad for cats and fish. So why did i say it is "safe"? because its safe when DRY. The liquid will kill a cat and a fish. so dont dump a cap full into the local lake or use it as a cat spray!

B) Permetrin doesnt resolve. Meaning once is dries, it stays dry. It bonds to the material it is sprayed or soaked on. If you wash it, or jump in the lake, it will not become liquid again. Meaning you can wash your itmes and they stay effective.

C) Sawyers is a good product, but it is NOT what you should use for soaking. (unless you are rich and dont mind throwing away money) Instead you can buy a container of the smae size or larger, for the same price as sawyers, that is 20 + times strong. Allowing you to mix your own, with water, to make Many gallons.

D) permethrin does not smell, however in the higher consentrates, it is often mixed with petrolium distolates, which does smell. This is typically for the farm use permethrins, which are often the higher consentrate. It is 100% fine to use the mixtures with P.D.'s however you will want to air dry these items for 2 days outside, to remove any odor.

E) Sawyers comes in .5% which is perfect for our uses to treat tents, hammocks, clothing, tarps, bags, packs, etc.... Most farm stores sell perm in 20%-37.5% Most common is 10% or 20%. this would mean you simply mix 19 parts water to 1 part perm, to make a .5% solution.

F) Permethrin is NOT harmful to humans, however it says not to use on human skin. This is sort of missleading. Although it can be a VERY minor eritant to a few people, the reason they say this is because it is not EFFECTIVE when sprayed on the skin, as it is matabolized in 15 minutes by humans. (not a very effective spray, if you need to apply it every 15 minutes, and is 1/2 effective after just 7.5 minutes)

G) When it is dry, it is not inhaled if sprayed on a face cover. Again, this chemical bonds with the material, it doesnt simply "stick" to it. (think dye, not paint) So it can be applied to bug nets, head nets, face covers, scarfs, etc. (just let it dry)

H) 1 treatment will last an entire season, unless it is left in the outdoors the entire time, then 1 a month is suggested.

Real world example/price.

1 8 oz bottle of Martins 36.5% concentrate sold at fleetfarm is $16.99.

72 OZ of water for each oz of Permethrin gets us the .5% sollution.

8 oz X 72 oz= 576 Oz of treatment sollution. OR... 4.5 Gallons.

To compair this to Sawyers 24oz bottle for $10.00

Sawyers= $0.42 an ounce
Mix your own= $0.03 an Ounce.

(sorry for the typos..im at work and tried to type this quickly)

**silentorpheus** · 07-21-2014, 08:36

Originally Posted by SirLips

Heres the skinny, as reported on many many other threads here, other sites and general "google" searches.

Permethrin is safe. period. However there are a few things to keep in mind, just like with any other chemical.

A) it is very bad for cats and fish. So why did i say it is "safe"? because its safe when DRY. The liquid will kill a cat and a fish. so dont dump a cap full into the local lake or use it as a cat spray!

B) Permetrin doesnt resolve. Meaning once is dries, it stays dry. It bonds to the material it is sprayed or soaked on. If you wash it, or jump in the lake, it will not become liquid again. Meaning you can wash your itmes and they stay effective.

C) Sawyers is a good product, but it is NOT what you should use for soaking. (unless you are rich and dont mind throwing away money) Instead you can buy a container of the smae size or larger, for the same price as sawyers, that is 20 + times strong. Allowing you to mix your own, with water, to make Many gallons.

D) permethrin does not smell, however in the higher consentrates, it is often mixed with petrolium distolates, which does smell. This is typically for the farm use permethrins, which are often the higher consentrate. It is 100% fine to use the mixtures with P.D.'s however you will want to air dry these items for 2 days outside, to remove any odor.

E) Sawyers comes in .5% which is perfect for our uses to treat tents, hammocks, clothing, tarps, bags, packs, etc.... Most farm stores sell perm in 20%-37.5% Most common is 10% or 20%. this would mean you simply mix 19 parts water to 1 part perm, to make a .5% solution.

F) Permethrin is NOT harmful to humans, however it says not to use on human skin. This is sort of missleading. Although it can be a VERY minor eritant to a few people, the reason they say this is because it is not EFFECTIVE when sprayed on the skin, as it is matabolized in 15 minutes by humans. (not a very effective spray, if you need to apply it every 15 minutes, and is 1/2 effective after just 7.5 minutes)

G) When it is dry, it is not inhaled if sprayed on a face cover. Again, this chemical bonds with the material, it doesnt simply "stick" to it. (think dye, not paint) So it can be applied to bug nets, head nets, face covers, scarfs, etc. (just let it dry)

H) 1 treatment will last an entire season, unless it is left in the outdoors the entire time, them 1 a month is suggested.

Real world example/price.

1 8 oz bottle of Martins 36.5% concentrate sold at fleetfarm is $16.99.

72 OZ of water for each oz of Permethrin gets us the .5% sollution.

8 oz X 72 oz= 576 Oz of treatment sollution. OR... 4.5 Gallons.

To compair this to Sawyers 24oz bottle for $10.00

Sawyers= $0.42 an ounce
Mix your own= $0.03 an Ounce.

This is a pretty good summation.

I'll argue a touch with point D - I believe that Permethrin DOES smell - though not horribly. But it does have a chemical smell to it. I've personally come in contact with 3 different types/brands of permethrin, and they all have a similar "chemical" odor, that I do not attribute to the delivery medium (petroleum vs. aqueous). But honestly I don't find it all that offensive. Much more pleasant than DEET.

And I think that point F is very well taken. While I would warn against getting high concentration (undiluted) liquid on your skin, when it's in .5% solution which is how we tend to use it for our application, it's not going to hurt you if you get it on your hands or anything. Basically just don't think that it can or should be used as a skin repellent for insects - but don't be afraid if you get some splashed on your hands when applying.

**Miguel** · 07-21-2014, 08:40

Thank you sir! FINALLY....I know how to properly mix this stuff! I am indebted to you.

Originally Posted by SirLips

Heres the skinny, as reported on many many other threads here, other sites and general "google" searches.

Permethrin is safe. period. However there are a few things to keep in mind, just like with any other chemical.

A) it is very bad for cats and fish. So why did i say it is "safe"? because its safe when DRY. The liquid will kill a cat and a fish. so dont dump a cap full into the local lake or use it as a cat spray!

B) Permetrin doesnt resolve. Meaning once is dries, it stays dry. It bonds to the material it is sprayed or soaked on. If you wash it, or jump in the lake, it will not become liquid again. Meaning you can wash your itmes and they stay effective.

C) Sawyers is a good product, but it is NOT what you should use for soaking. (unless you are rich and dont mind throwing away money) Instead you can buy a container of the smae size or larger, for the same price as sawyers, that is 20 + times strong. Allowing you to mix your own, with water, to make Many gallons.

D) permethrin does not smell, however in the higher consentrates, it is often mixed with petrolium distolates, which does smell. This is typically for the farm use permethrins, which are often the higher consentrate. It is 100% fine to use the mixtures with P.D.'s however you will want to air dry these items for 2 days outside, to remove any odor.

E) Sawyers comes in .5% which is perfect for our uses to treat tents, hammocks, clothing, tarps, bags, packs, etc.... Most farm stores sell perm in 20%-37.5% Most common is 10% or 20%. this would mean you simply mix 19 parts water to 1 part perm, to make a .5% solution.

F) Permethrin is NOT harmful to humans, however it says not to use on human skin. This is sort of missleading. Although it can be a VERY minor eritant to a few people, the reason they say this is because it is not EFFECTIVE when sprayed on the skin, as it is matabolized in 15 minutes by humans. (not a very effective spray, if you need to apply it every 15 minutes, and is 1/2 effective after just 7.5 minutes)

G) When it is dry, it is not inhaled if sprayed on a face cover. Again, this chemical bonds with the material, it doesnt simply "stick" to it. (think dye, not paint) So it can be applied to bug nets, head nets, face covers, scarfs, etc. (just let it dry)

H) 1 treatment will last an entire season, unless it is left in the outdoors the entire time, then 1 a month is suggested.

Real world example/price.

1 8 oz bottle of Martins 36.5% concentrate sold at fleetfarm is $16.99.

72 OZ of water for each oz of Permethrin gets us the .5% sollution.

8 oz X 72 oz= 576 Oz of treatment sollution. OR... 4.5 Gallons.

To compair this to Sawyers 24oz bottle for $10.00

Sawyers= $0.42 an ounce
Mix your own= $0.03 an Ounce.

(sorry for the typos..im at work and tried to type this quickly)

**erinkae** · 07-21-2014, 12:19

We use permethrin on all of our stuff. Hammocks--clothes--etc. We have not had any issues with it bothering us. Be sure to do it way in advance of using the camping gear if you do it. It is pretty effective. I have not gotten any bug bites when using it. Academy has some bottles to spray on or dip it in. I do recommend wearing gloves when applying. It is safe, but you are not suppose to get it on your skin...etc. Let it hang to dry and you should be good to go!

**outdoorsguy** · 07-21-2014, 19:36

I had sawyers soak when they still sold it. If I remember, they said to soak it overnight in a plastic bag.

Fast foreward to now, I spray it till my stuff is pretty wet , drop it in a black plastic garbage bag and let it sit overnight. The next morning it is of course still as wet as the day before, then let it air dry.

When I come out of the woods, I hand wash my clothes in just plain water, let them dry, and then store them in a plastic bag. 2 months between applications, permethrin is still effective 2 months later.

**ntxkayakr** · 07-21-2014, 20:36

Those are very good guidelines SirLips. I recall reading several places that cats have more sensitive skin than many other animals and because they also lick themselves more than a dog. But regardless of pet or human, occasionally an individual is just hyper allergic to a particular substance, so if you or your child etc has never been exposed to a particular brand of Permethrin (active and "inactive" ingredients) it is always best to test it out before soaking ALL your camping cloths and bedding, hammock, bugnet etc in the drench. I have been primitive camping in the wilderness with a person who reacted badly to an OTC "medicine" someone else loaned him that he should not have used. A very bad situation. It is just "Common Sense" to test anything that is new to you out, before. Also when you go to "Tractor Supply" or wherever, read the label BEFORE you buy it. Personally I like anything that reduces the need for DEET all over the place but DEET is better than the diseases borne by mosquitos and ticks. American Beauty Berry leaf smeared all over my skin not quite as effective.

**Hammonkey** · 07-21-2014, 23:50

Originally Posted by hk2001

I find it best to dump the $15 and have it professionally treated by Insect Shield, as I talked about here I've had a few hammocks treated, and they come out great.. zero smell, zero worry, and the industrial strength treatment is pretty much good for the life of the hammock.

That being said, I use Martin's Permethrin for dunking clothes.. I found a seller on Amazon that will ship to NY, and there's a little smell that goes away after the first wash cycle.

pfff... stupid privileges to view.