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  1. #1
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    Down vs synthetic pros and cons

    Hey
    Could you guys explain the pros and cons of down vs synthetic UQ's.

    I have the Clark full Z liner which is synthetic....I popped for it when I got the NX250 mainly cuz I was impressed by the way it fits so snuggly onto the hammock with the Velcro. So far, so good...but Ive only been into the upper 40s with it.

    Just curious if you could explain the differences to a newb

  2. #2
    Senior Member Rolloff's Avatar
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    In short weight and bulk. Down is generally lighter and packs down smaller. It is also more expensive, but for most well worth the cost.

    Everything seems to domino. With synthetics, I would also require a larger heavier pack. Not so much due to additional weight of the synthetic insulation, but to be able to fit the extra bulk.

    As long as your type of hiking or camping doesn't include packing or carrying the weight and bulk long distances, synthetics may save you a few bucks. If you are hiking into an area, with no hope of reasonable bail out, or anticipate extended foul weather, Syn might again be the choice. For most others, weekend campers, to a few days or weeks between town sections, down will usually be the #1 choice of poison. Nothing is warmer by weight or compresses smaller.
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  3. #3
    SilvrSurfr's Avatar
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    I hate bulk, and synthetics are bulky. I'm down with down, baby bubba.
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #4
    Senior Member Otter1's Avatar
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    Unless you go for extended trips in wet weather (where you can't air out your bag if damp), there are no drawbacks to down ... other than cost compared to synthetic.

  5. #5
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    Down packs smaller and lighter. Down has a perceptibly different feel to it - perhaps because it's lighter and dispersed fluff in the shell instead of slabs of filaments.

    Synthetic is heavy and bulky, and wet synthetic is just as miserable as wet down. You have to understand that "wet" in this context means totally, completely soaked and dripping - it is extremely difficult to wet out down, as anyone who has tried to hand wash a down item can tell you. It is also difficult to wet out a synthetic. getting any sleeping insulation wet that way either takes a dunking in a river or intentionally leaving your gear out in the drenching rain for a while. A pack liner does all you need to protect down gear.

    Set up a shelter so the pouring rain doesn't get in. Put the gear in the shelter. All good.

  6. #6
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    Thnx
    I guess maybe Im having some buyers remorse due to picking up the Z liner as opposed to trying out a down UQ first. Seems the liner works great so far, and it has a very "downy" type feel, but all I hear about on here is down, down, down.....so just wondering.
    FWIW, I have a JRB ORM for TQ (which I really haven't used yet as its been too warm) and it just feels incredible.

  7. #7
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    Oh and weight is not really an issue for me as most of my use is from motorcycle trips. Some short backpacking hikes (6 miles or so), but not anything that requires ultralite or huge space savings. Just thought id mention.

  8. #8
    Senior Member MAD777's Avatar
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    If you're not backpacking, buy synthetic and save the extra money for other gear.
    Mike
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  9. #9
    Senior Member captaincoupal's Avatar
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    I'm going to echo others here - down is typically more expensive than synthetic and provides more warmth per ounce than man-made materials.

    Many people don't like the risk of down getting wet; it's just that down, once wet, is very difficult to get dry enough to get its insulative qualities back. That being said, several points:

    1. If you go DIY, you can harvest down very cheaply from other sources, such as jackets from church sales, etc... I made a 30 degree top quilt for $35 with harvested down. It's also a much more ethical way to obtain down if that's a concern.
    2. If you're concerned about keeping your down dry, follow a belt-and-suspenders method of putting your down in a dry bag within a pack liner.

    If you're going to be hiking for a long time, there is another issue that is related to the location within your bag or quilt in which down condenses - this is a little more complicated, but consider this - if it's pretty cold outside, your sweat (and you produce quite a bit) will not be able to make it all of the way through your insulation and will condense as liquid/ice within the insulation itself. If this isn't managed, you can build up moisture within your insulation system over several days, which results in a degradation of the insulating quality over time - in harsh conditions this can be a significant risk. Here's a great reference for this if you want to read more. You can prevent this by using a vapor barrier inside the sleep system, but again this is something to consider for multi-day hikes in very cold temperatures.

  10. #10
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    MAD777 is 100% correct. Like all gear for all recreational activities and sports it depends on your particular style, intentions, frequency and budget.
    For car camping and similar especially in temps at or above freezing synthetic insulation is great. Some of my canoe camping friends still do not trust hydrophobic down because once it loses loft almost all insulation is lost. Also if not 100% dry and you toss it in an air tight container you may have the experience of sleeping with a wet goose on your next camping trip, so store it where it can breath.
    But if you become an enthusiastic long distance backpacker and take excellent care of your quilts and sleeping bags, hat, booties etc they should outlast similar gear with synthetic insulation and thus some people may argue that they are more cost effective for them. But this may not apply to you. So never mind.

    Edit: I have had reasonably good success with packing my sleeping insulation in eVent fabric dry bags made with built in compression straps from sea-to-summit. As long as they did not sit in standing water the contents stayed dry in pouring down rain for hours. But to be safe I have double bagged in other thicker bags even those cheap ones from Walmart that Bear Grylls promotes are OK but very stiff. I own a huge variety of dry bags and containers, will put gear in one of those "Plano" brand plastic lockers with padlocks steel cables etc in back of pickup or trailer for long distant trips (gear inside dry bag if necessary). BP, boats of every kind, horse, ATV, 4WD, whatever just any excuse to get the heck out of town. But keep your apparel and sleeping insulation dry, even wet wool is not fun to sleep in. Some synthetic insulation loses its ability to re - establish original loft after it has been repeatedly compressed to a greater extent than high quality down does so as soon as you return from a trip be sure to fluff it back up and store it in an extra large bag, preferably one that breaths well.
    Last edited by ntxkayakr; 08-21-2014 at 12:30. Reason: Dry bags and storage

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