Simple questions - cannot find answers. Asking the masters

[SilvrSurfr]

Plenty of good answers so far.

1. 30 degrees - Play with the Hammock Hang Calculator at:

http://theultimatehang.com/hammock-hang-calculator/

You'll be able to see the shear forces applied by changing the hang angle. A five degree hangle will be 1143 lbs. of shear force, 373 lbs. at 15 degrees, and 275 lbs. at 20 degrees, 30 degrees is 200 lbs., etc. So if you want to increase the lateral forces (and increase the chances of failure and landing on your butt), hang the hammock tighter.

2. I personally don't hang the feet higher than the head - I was under the impression this was a Warbonnet recommendation to avoid the dreaded calf ridge associated with some hammocks with integrated bugnets.

3. If you have no concerns about weight or cost, by all means get a full length UQ. However, some people consider the difference in weight to be significant. For example, an HG 20* Incubator (full-length) is 22 oz., but the 3/4 Phoenix is 16 oz. For hikers, that's 6 oz. less weight to carry, or 30% less weight if you carry a 3/4 UQ.

I use 3/4 UQs in three seasons, and the only time the full-length UQ comes out is in sub-20 degree weather.

4. Pulling the UQ up to the shoulder is all you need. The UQ is designed to insulate your torso and extremities, not your head. If you pull it up to the top of your head, you're shorting your feet of insulation (and they need it more). Just think of all that down to the left and right of your head, insulating nothing - not an effective use of insulation. Most people find other means of insulating their head (down beanie, balaclava, etc.)

[silentorpheus]

CRAP are you guys fast! Thank you all.

Follow ups:

3. Full-length UQ: Weight, size and preference. I hear you, but I'm thinking that I disagree. Not absolutely positive that I disagree yet, but I'm thinking. I hit WB and looked at the Lynx 3-season. Torso length 12.8oz and the full length is 17.5oz - less than 4.5oz more. My cellphone weighs in at 8 oz. So, for a little more than half the weight of my cell phone (and another $40), I can have head-to-toe coverage. If I went with the full winter, we are still only looking at a 5.5 increase. I'd love to hear any other arguments against before I give Brandon that much money (though I am certain that it is well-deserved).

You folks rock.

Thanks!

You are correct - we're not talking about a lot of weight, in the grand scheme. But for those looking to lighten up, 5-6 ounces is pretty significant. YMMV.

Just remember, that weight isn't the only factor - bulk is also something to be considered. Again, not major, but using the comparison to your phone, the difference between the partial and full UQ will mean more space taken up in your pack then the space your phone occupies.

As far as the Lynx goes - be aware that it is designed to be used on the Ridgerunner bridge hammock - it may work just fine on a WBBB, but I'd do a little research on that before you pull the trigger. I don't have either, so I can't speak to that one.

Like you said - choose what works for you, but it always helps to consider all the criteria when making the choice.

Cheers!

[sargevining]

FWIW:

I like a long, wide hammock and a long, wide UQ.

My hammock is 144" long and 64" wide (DIY). I've lain in many hammocks and this is the flattest lay I have ever had. MY UQ is 84" long and 60" wide (DIY). I can't lay in my hammock in such a manner that my feet and head is not inside the UQ. It wraps around me like a warm hug from my Mamma, and blocks any air movement when it does. You can see it if you click on the Underwoobie link in my signature.

[CapDubOh]

I also prefer a full length UQ year round. I'm at about 25lbs. Fully loaded with 3L of water and food for 3-4 day trips and it all fits into a 42L main body (ULA Ohm). That includes many things that other hikers probably find useless like a hatchet, large gravity filter, and on and on. I've found that using a pad to insulate my legs and feet just doesn't work for me. I toss and turn constantly so it always ends up on the moon and my feet get cold easily.

As with any piece of gear, you will find what works for you. Unfortunately that means that there will likely be gear turnover from your first set up. The best thing to do would be to try out someone else's gear first, before buying. If that's not an option and the added weight/volume of a full length UQ isn't going to be an issue then I would recommend starting with a full length.

[silentorpheus]

2. I personally don't hang the feet higher than the head - I was under the impression this was a Warbonnet recommendation to avoid the dreaded calf ridge associated with some hammocks with integrated bugnets.

I always understood it to be a causal relationship between the two, actually.

Hanging the foot end higher counteracts the effects of gravity that lead to you sliding down in the hammock, thus keeping the bulk of your weight in the upper part of the hammock. When this isn't done, and you are using a WBBB for example, then I think it's the shift of your body weight, combined with the unique design of that hammock, that cause the calf ridge to manifest in such a pronounced manner.

This can be mitigated by a longer hammock - I'd wager that the WBBB XLC isn't as susceptible to this, even if you don't hang the foot end significantly higher - but that's pure hypothesis on my part.

I know that with my DH, if I don't hang the foot higher I do notice a downward migration. Due to the fact that it's an 11' hammock, I don't encounter adverse calf pressure because of it … but I do find that my change in position puts me outside of the optimal positioning on my non-full-length UQ, intruducing the possibility of air gaps and cold bottom (see how I brought it full circle there? )

[MDSH]

The quilt system must account for the ways our body loses heat. http://www.webmd.com/first-aid/tc/co...topic-overview

A full length UQ will help retain heat against convection (aka the wind chill effect). Heat is conducted or radiated through the materials and blown right way at an alarming rate. More material between heat source and the elements means a slower loss. Some of us live where the wind is a constant factor. So, I'm building a winter quilt set 78" long each.

Otherwise, the smaller UQ helps regulate core temperature. It is easily adjusted up or down in a summer UL set-up.

Quilts are always a balancing act between ventilation and insulation. Water (sweat) conducts heat faster than air so the insulation needs to stay dry in order to work properly.

Our internal heater (cellular respiration) is a factor, too. This is measured by the respiratory quotient of what we eat. Drinking a lot of alcohol before bed, for instance, speeds up metabolism; it makes us feel warm for a while but wears off; it produced a spike of sweat as a by-product, which conducts heat away. Then it has burned up fast and we get cold in both ways.

Foods that burn more slowly are protein and fat. (Bread, alcohol, and candy are carbohydrates that burn fast.)

Cheese is a pretty good bed-time snack because it mixes fat and protein, and salt retains water.

[rhjanes]

I've only used my full length UQ on winter camping (down to 18 degrees). The 3/4 works great the rest of the time. Even on that 18 degree night, the UQ was up to my shoulders. I had a small down pillow under my neck and a beanie to wear. My TQ is long enough to also pull up over my head. But then condensation is the issue, as noted already. It has a snap on the top and can be snapped around my shoulders. It was warm enough.

[ChrisP]

I missed the part about hanging the feet slightly higher than the head and woke up lying in the bottom 1/3 of the hammock.

[SilvrSurfr]

B]3. Full-length UQ[/B]: Weight, size and preference. I hear you, but I'm thinking that I disagree. Not absolutely positive that I disagree yet, but I'm thinking. I hit WB and looked at the Lynx 3-season. Torso length 12.8oz and the full length is 17.5oz - less than 4.5oz more. My cellphone weighs in at 8 oz. So, for a little more than half the weight of my cell phone (and another $40), I can have head-to-toe coverage. If I went with the full winter, we are still only looking at a 5.5 increase. I'd love to hear any other arguments against before I give Brandon that much money (though I am certain that it is well-deserved).

You are correct - we're not talking about a lot of weight, in the grand scheme. But for those looking to lighten up, 5-6 ounces is pretty significant. YMMV.

You've stated you're looking for winter quilts. Just make sure you're not shopping for a year-round set of quilts, because a lot of folks overheat trying to use winter quilts in any of the other seasons.

I agree with SilentOrpheus; four to six ounces doesn't sound like a lot of weight. However, if there comes a time you want to lighten your pack weight and bulk, then it is a lot of weight. If you're a car camper/paddler that day may never come. However, if you're a hiker, then that day will come all too soon. Four years ago, I carried a 90-liter pack that weighed 60 lbs. I found I couldn't hike more than seven miles with that load, at my age. Now I'm using a 50L pack with about 25 lbs. or less. I certainly didn't anticipate embracing ultralight hiking; thankfully, I made the wise first purchase of a TQ/UQ combo with the most versatility for all seasons: a 20* TQ and 20* 3/4 UQ. I used them for a couple of years from highs of 70* F down to 13* F. I didn't buy a 0* TQ/0* Full length UQ till I was ready for temps that low (and that might take a while to dial in).

Hammock camping can be expensive, as is insulation (especially down). Most of us don't find the perfect hammock or anything else on our first try (spend the money only once). It's an admirable goal, but hammock camping is considerably more personal preference than one-size-fits-all. It's a lot more fiddly than 1) buy tent; 2) put tent on ground; 3) sleep on ground.

You may find wind robbing your quilts of warmth, then you might start thinking about a 4-season tarp with doors, or an underquilt protector to mitigate that. You may find the bulk of a full winter set of quilts doesn't fit your pack. There's no telling which way you'll go on your hammock journey. Just don't expect it to be buy once, because that rarely seems to happen for most of us. Better to focus on "buy quality so I can resell with minimal discount it if I don't like it."

[jwright]

paustin,
I'm right above you in MD. There is a lot of good advice here, but a lot of it boils down to what works well for you. Keep in mind that there is a good chance that what you decide on now will have been replaced/modified or changed within the first 6 months.

I think the temperatures you see yourself camping might play a roll in the UQ selection. Some people find that they are more comfortable with the full length quilts in the colder temperatures and switch to the partials (w/foot pad) as temperatures warm up.
I like a warm backside at night, and toss and move about when I sleep. I prefer a full length from the 30's on down. Anything above and the partial works really well for me.

I hope you are planning on attending the Fall MAHAA. It is just a few hrs away, and a great way to really get up to speed on all things hammock. You can check out pretty much any type of hammock/tarp sold or diy'd and get more answers to more questions than you thought you had. You might even get to meet a vendor or two. Even if you come for 1 day or sleep in a tent, you should not miss it.