Is 30 degree rule for hanging hammock bunk?

[goober]

I'm kind of new to this hammock thing. so when I got my new argon hammock from the famous Dutch, I tried to get the most comfortable hang. But as I tried to measure and implement the famous "30 degree off vertical" for the most comfortable hang, i found, perhaps, a better way to do it.
I guess the first assumption is that people want to lay flat in their hammocks. (This is why bed's aren't curved.) One way to get a flat hammock is simply to tie it that way, by eliminating any "sag". Of course, the problem with this is that doing it this way creates a lot of tension. You can get a flat hammock, but it becomes rigid and uncomfortable, the opposite of what you are looking for.
So the question then becomes: " how can I achieve a flat hammock without tension?"

Thinking this way, I imagined a rope connecting two trees. What would make it flat, without tension? First as a mind experiment, then in practice, I found that the more distance between the trees, the flatter the curve. ( kind of like the earth seems flat but actually is a very long curve.).

The problem encountered here is, as the distance between the trees grew longer, the hammock bottoms out against the ground.

Solution? Raise the point where you tie to the trees.

Conclusion: The flattest hammock with the least tension is achieved when the trees are far apart and tied high. The longer, and higher, the better. Obviously, there are practical limits to this, as carrying a lot of rope and straps is a negative, especially for backpacking. (And carrying a ladder out in the wild is not cool, even if it's made from carbon fiber.)

Another way of looking at it: wouldn't the flattest, most comfortable hang be achieved, in theory, by having trees miles apart, and high enough up so you don't bottom out? The "curve" would be imperceptible. ( a comfortable, stretchy hammock fabric probably helps too.)

I think this greatly simplifies how to best set up your hammock. Given your suspension system, you try to hang with trees as far apart as possible, avoiding bottoming out by having high attachment points.

So I say: be done with the silly, complicated, and incorrect 30 degree formula.

If anyone bothered reading this far.....comments?

[hppyfngy]

You chose your name well! or did it choose you?!?

just kidding.

Your theory is fine if you're talking about a hammock with stretchers but with a gathered end hammock, the "flat" is achieved by lying at an angle with head and feet off of center. A certain amount of sag is required to get relatively flat. And 30% is about the right amount. It depends on height of the occupant, length of hammock, etc., but it's a starting point, and that's really all it is.

But you keep on experimenting if you have to carry spools of cordage into the woods!

Seriously, it's all a compromise. Rules don't really apply.

HYOH!

[SilvrSurfr]

With all due respect, I think your assumptions are wrong in theory, and totally impractical in practice unless you're carrying a ladder.

You need to play with the hammock hang calculator for a while.

http://theultimatehang.com/hammock-hang-calculator/

[goober]

OK Explain to me the reasoning behind the 30 degree rule. What is the geometric goal? Seems like it's getting a flat hang.

By the way, the other 30 degree rule pertains to trying to hang sideways in the hammock. This actually works because it overcomes, to a certain extent, the curve of the hammock, by cutting across it. This actually supports my contention that it is the curve of the hammock that creates discomfort. Minimizing the curve is what it's all about. Going sideways helps, as does a long hang between trees.

[The Tree Frog]

OK Explain to me the reasoning behind the 30 degree rule. What is the geometric goal? Seems like it's getting a flat hang.

By the way, the other 30 degree rule pertains to trying to hang sideways in the hammock. This actually works because it overcomes, to a certain extent, the curve of the hammock, by cutting across it. This actually supports my contention that it is the curve of the hammock that creates discomfort. Minimizing the curve is what it's all about. Going sideways helps, as does a long hang between trees.

Oh I get it, Goober didn't drink the cool-aide yet! You need to read The Ultimate Hang and watch Shug's videos. Then practice what you learned. Get out of the laboratory and into the woods!

[weaver2469]

Unless you have a bridge hammock, I don't know of anyone who lays straight in their hammock. Backpacking hammocks are designed to lay on the diagonal. It makes a "trough" for your body to lay in, which keeps it flat. I would never want it 100% completely flat, however. The beauty of a hammock to me is having a slightly elevated head and feet. If I wanted dead flat, I would sleep in a tent. (which I hopefully will never do again). My back hurts when it is completely flat, even in my bed at home. I also think that a hammock as flat as you suggest leaves very little room for error in terms of rolling side to side at night. One wrong move and you would be on the ground. I think the thirty degree rule leaves a certain amount of slack in the hammock fabric which allows most people to find that trough fairly easily. I think pulling it as tight as you suggest would be also physically problematic for the weight rating of suspensions. Having that much tension seems like it would lead to equipment failure, although I'm sure there are engineering types that would have a better idea about that than I would.

[hppyfngy]

OK Explain to me the reasoning behind the 30 degree rule. What is the geometric goal? Seems like it's getting a flat hang.

.

You know, I said "HYOH" but I think you're doing it wrong.
The 30* rule isn't a rule, it just happens to work out to be about right, given the length of hammocks and the lengths of people. No magic. Not complicated. Just matter of fact. And nobody here made it up. Hammocks have been and are used around the world in this manner.

What you describe would not be comfortable. It wouldn't give. It would be far too tight. And as others point out, it isn't about getting dead flat. That's not comfortable to most people, which is one reason so many replace their beds with hammocks.
You're basically talking about sleeping on a tightrope.

If flat is what you're really after, or if you don't like lying at an angle, I'd suggest you try a bridge hammock.

Or just forget the 30*. Just get comfortable.

[goober]

How would it be tight? What I'm saying is that you give your hammock the maximum sag, which minimizes the curve.

What I see is a lot of repeating the 30 degree rule, not any explanation.

(And I'm not arguing against the other 30 degree rule, the one that says you should try to lay diagonally)

That said, it certainly looks like I'm not winning any converts!

[Yojimbo]

One thing the OP is looking at this in 2-dimensions, while in reality hammocks hang in 3-dimensions. This third dimension is what allows one to lay on the diagonal, thus allowing one to hang from much closer trees.

Another reason for the hangle as apposed to the tight hang is the weight strain on the suspension and the trees. I won't go into the physics here, cause its over my head.

[sargevining]

How would it be tight? What I'm saying is that you give your hammock the maximum sag, which minimizes the curve.

It certainly looks like I'm not winning any converts!

The curve is what you want. So that you can lie flat. At an angle to the longitudinal centerline of the hammock. If you try to lie flat directly on the longitudinal centerline of the hammock, you will never lie flat. You will be a ba na na. That's because you will never be able to get it tight enough to lay flat in.