DIY Permethrin Treatment

**PapaSmurf** · 03-29-2011, 09:20

Originally Posted by BillyBob58

I looked at the label of my sawyer product. It said 99.5% inert. But I don't think it said anything about what the inert products were. However, we do know that the product is meant to be used on human clothing and probably with no damage to the clothing.

I assume the Inert Ingredient is water since it is sold already diluted, but I don't know?

The Sawyer product (already diluted)
0.5% Permethrin
<1.0% Petroleum Distilates
>98% Inert Ingredients
MSDS - http://www.sawyer.com/MSDS/SP652_MSDS.PDF

PBI Gordon product (after diluted)
0.5% Permethrin
4.34% Petroleum Distilates and stuff I can't pronounce.
95.16% Water
MSDS - http://media.ruralking.com/docs/pdf/070010266msds.pdf

**Cranky Bear** · 03-29-2011, 09:48

Just a FYI to all those who are either looking too or have bought with the intent too, the tractor supply or any other Permethrin solution concentrate (the 95% bottle) other than the Sawyer brand! I have not done a whole lot of research, but, there were numerous reports when I did my initial search for information on the Permethrin subject that the poly and nylons were severely affected and in most cases damaged! Many claim this was due to the other products that were present, particularly the levels of petroleum distillates! This is one reason that when I contacted Sawyer I asked specific questions to them as I wasn't brave enough to spray a 300$ item first and potentially watch it be destroyed! Now I am not saying that this will happen, but I am saying use caution, as the two products are very different! They may both have Permethrin in them and the one may be able to be diluted, but the extra ingredients are still there in their same quantity's!

On to the smell/odor after application! Once the item that was treated with the Sawyer product and was given the allowed time to dry, there was "No" noticeable smell, at least that I could detect! Also I have a cat, and after it dried I brought it in the house with no issues! Now it was a little difficult with the disposal of and washing of things that still had non-dried Sawyer Permethrin on it, as I live in a apartment so, things got double and triple bagged! But I must have done something right as my cat is just as stupid as she was before the treatments, JJ, well actually she is kinda stupid!!

My point is to those whom plan on using something other than the Sawyer's, please use caution! I found yes, you are right the Sawyers costs more, but, it worked, and my gear is fine, and thats all that matters to me!
Just means I can't by a extra stove, or bug net, or hammock, holy &#%^ I can't buy any new gear as the extra went to the treatments, what the????? awe man, that stinks!!

**JohnSawyer** · 03-29-2011, 09:54

Originally Posted by Cranky Bear

Just a FYI to all those who are either looking too or have bought with the intent too, the tractor supply or any other Permethrin solution concentrate (the 95% bottle) other than the Sawyer brand! I have not done a whole lot of research, but, there were numerous reports when I did my initial search for information on the Permethrin subject that the poly and nylons were severely affected and in most cases damaged! Many claim this was due to the other products that were present, particularly the levels of petroleum distillates! This is one reason that when I contacted Sawyer I asked specific questions to them as I wasn't brave enough to spray a 300$ item first and potentially watch it be destroyed! Now I am not saying that this will happen, but I am saying use caution, as the two products are very different! They may both have Permethrin in them and the one may be able to be diluted, but the extra ingredients are still there in their same quantity's!

On to the smell/odor after application! Once the item that was treated with the Sawyer product and was given the allowed time to dry, there was "No" noticeable smell, at least that I could detect! Also I have a cat, and after it dried I brought it in the house with no issues! Now it was a little difficult with the disposal of and washing of things that still had non-dried Sawyer Permethrin on it, as I live in a apartment so, things got double and triple bagged! But I must have done something right as my cat is just as stupid as she was before the treatments, JJ, well actually she is kinda stupid!!

My point is to those whom plan on using something other than the Sawyer's, please use caution! I found yes, you are right the Sawyers costs more, but, it worked, and my gear is fine, and thats all that matters to me!
Just means I can't by a extra stove, or bug net, or hammock, holy &#%^ I can't buy any new gear as the extra went to the treatments, what the????? awe man, that stinks!!

Maybe papasmurf can put this issue to bed by dripping some of the concentrated stuff at full strength on scraps of nylon and polyester...

**Cranky Bear** · 03-29-2011, 09:57

Originally Posted by PapaSmurf

I assume the Inert Ingredient is water since it is sold already diluted, but I don't know?

The Sawyer product (already diluted)
0.5% Permethrin
<1.0% Petroleum Distilates
>98% Inert Ingredients
MSDS - http://www.sawyer.com/MSDS/SP652_MSDS.PDF

PBI Gordon product (after diluted)
0.5% Permethrin
4.34% Petroleum Distilates and stuff I can't pronounce.
95.16% Water
MSDS - http://media.ruralking.com/docs/pdf/070010266msds.pdf

According to Sawyer, "Yes", the inert ingredient is water!

This is why they (Sawyer) say it is safe to apply on clothing that will come in contact with your body and why it is safe to apply to poly/nylon products as the product is water based, with such low concentrations of extra ingredients (including Permethrin) that any damage or side effect is very, very limited, to "almost" non-existent! Now mind you I said "almost", as nothing is ever guaranteed, but the report of incident's from Sawyer brand use so low that they can make these claims, and still be a registered product for treatment of outdoor clothing/products!

**PapaSmurf** · 03-29-2011, 10:17

Originally Posted by JohnSawyer

Maybe papasmurf can put this issue to bed by dripping some of the concentrated stuff at full strength on scraps of nylon and polyester...

I will do some testing next day or 2.

Originally Posted by Cranky Bear

My point is to those whom plan on using something other than the Sawyer's, please use caution! I found yes, you are right the Sawyers costs more, but, it worked, and my gear is fine, and thats all that matters to me!

Agreed 100% See these 2 statements in the disclaimer from my first post -
"If you have any doubts or concerns, please purchase Sawyer Clothing Insect Repellant."
"As always this is maybe not the best way or the only way. It's just the way I did it."

**Danalex** · 03-29-2011, 10:42

Some of the TSC products had Pyretherin from chrysanthemum's which I suppose is ok but they also had 'other' ingrediernts and who knows what they are

So, the safe way is obviously to use the Sawyer, even if it costs a bit more.

Now how do I find it in Canada?

I've checked the government's website and they recommend using it while abroad but don't seem to approve of the sale of it here.

**Rain Man** · 03-29-2011, 10:45

Originally Posted by perrito

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOsi_SCRbHI

BINGO!!! That's it. And hey, Australia is close the the UK, isn't it?! I only missed by about 10,000 miles.

Rain Man

.

**Danalex** · 03-29-2011, 10:58

Here's a guide to figure out how much area of material to treat and how much permetherin to use so the dose is adequate ... hmm, seems more complicated than the Sawyer web sites show.

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/...endix3-eng.php

**Rain Man** · 03-29-2011, 10:58

Originally Posted by dragon360

Possibly this?

http://www.tractorsupply.com/insecti...32-oz--2212611

Appears to be the same stuff per the description, though in a different bottle than what I bought. My bottle has one of those little fancy self-measuring compartments on top. Here's a photo of mine along with the Sawyer's box and bottle, which I bought last year at REI (now empty).

Rain Man

.

**BillyBob58** · 03-29-2011, 11:31

Originally Posted by Cranky Bear

Just a FYI to all those who are either looking too or have bought with the intent too, the tractor supply or any other Permethrin solution concentrate (the 95% bottle) other than the Sawyer brand! I have not done a whole lot of research, but, there were numerous reports when I did my initial search for information on the Permethrin subject that the poly and nylons were severely affected and in most cases damaged! Many claim this was due to the other products that were present, particularly the levels of petroleum distillates! This is one reason that when I contacted Sawyer I asked specific questions to them as I wasn't brave enough to spray a 300$ item first and potentially watch it be destroyed! Now I am not saying that this will happen, but I am saying use caution, as the two products are very different! They may both have Permethrin in them and the one may be able to be diluted, but the extra ingredients are still there in their same quantity's!

OK now, this is what I am talking about. I mean, it is a potential concern when using a product meant either for spraying the yard or animals or both vs one that is designed specifically for clothing. (which I am assuming is safe, but you know what happens when you assume!

)

Of course, if Papasmurf and others have already done the testing for us ( at least for one specific product) then concern is decreased. But every one of these undiluted products has(I guess) a different chemical makeup. Repeating what I said earlier, I have sprayed the yard with Perm with stuff that left a very noticeable smell for hours or even a day after wards. Others not so much. And when spraying my clothes with the sawyers virtually no smell by comparison .

Man, what I need is a gallon of 10% sawyers, priced similarly to the TSC stuff. Or at least close to same price. I mean, there is absolutely no other reason for me to switch from Sawyer except price.

My point is to those whom plan on using something other than the Sawyer's, please use caution! I found yes, you are right the Sawyers costs more, but, it worked, and my gear is fine, and thats all that matters to me!
Just means I can't by a extra stove, or bug net, or hammock, holy &#%^ I can't buy any new gear as the extra went to the treatments, what the????? awe man, that stinks!!

Exactly!