Primaloft Thermo

**PapaSmurf** · 10-07-2011, 13:44

Originally Posted by Knotty

Very interesting but I'm concerned about the way it clumps together. Isn't that the antithesis of loft?

Maybe I said this wrong earlier. I don't think that it's a matter of clumping as much as having different handling properties than down. In other words, it doesn't tend to flow around like down.

To give you an example... When filling my initial test quilt (the 2nd time), I left all of my chambers open and could have easily smacked the full end of the quilt without fibers shooting out the open chambers. This product can also be picked up by the handful without too much worry of escaping fibers.

**PapaSmurf** · 10-07-2011, 14:13

Looking at this another way.

Primaloft Sport's 6oz/yd has approx 1.2" of loft and is said to be warm at approx 30 degrees. (not sure how much the scrim actually weighs)

6oz of 550 FP Down at 36" x 36" would give you approx 2.54" and is said to be warm at approx 25-30 degrees.

I think where I made my mistake was doing the calculations for 550 down and expecting this Primaloft Thermo to fill the chambers properly. Once I doubled the fill, everything was great, but too heavy. Perhaps the calculations should be based off Primaloft Sport?

Test quilt#2 will have 1" high baffles and each chamber is 5.25" wide. We'll see how it goes.

I'm hoping that some of you folks much more knowledgeable about this stuff can help me out with this.

And yes I know, 900 FP down is much better, but that's not the boundary I'm trying to push here.

**wwk10** · 10-07-2011, 14:20

PapaSmurf
Is your hypothesis that 1.25 of loft of Perma Loft Thermo will get you to around 30 degrees? If so then Perma Loft does not "beat" 550FP in "loftiness", but it beats it in warmth per oz.

I know this is only a hypothesis at this point, but I want to make sure I follow you.

Thanks

**PapaSmurf** · 10-07-2011, 14:32

I can't even spell hypothesis so I'm not sure I have one.

Just repeating what those smart folks over at BPL are saying.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...hread_id=19868

Someone used this formula and folks agreed with it.
"60 - (Oz/yd X 5)= F temp rating. Ie; 6oz/yd would be 60-(6 X 5)= 30 degrees F."

**wwk10** · 10-07-2011, 14:55

OK I will pick the conversation up here on this thread.
I want to make a 45 x 55 UQ, but for now I will discuss ciphoto's TQ since that is already made.

His TQ was 75 x (50 tapering to 40). That is about 2.6 square yards.
ciphoto put 24oz of Permaloft
I estimated he only needed 18-19 oz. My estimate was based on Permaloft being equivalent to 550FP down.
The formula you quoted suggests he only needs 16 oz to get to 30 degrees.

That would be great. I wish we could confirm.

**ciphoto** · 10-07-2011, 16:38

wwk10, did you account for the baffle height? I made my baffles to allow for 3.15" loft =+/-, can't cut or sew straight really.

I made a spread sheet to figure volume, using the width of the wide baffle as it tapered about 1.50 inches per 6.5 inches(width of chamber). I did not start the taper until 5 sections down to give me plenty to wrap my upper body with. Also I went for a 10% over fill.

Weight before stuffing 377g, after 1073g.

loft = (56.7-temp)/11.64

Got that from a thread about over stuffing down from Mad777.

If you look at what some others are getting down to with about 1.8 to 2" of loft with primaloft sport( 5/10*) it's pretty good in my opinion. Granted I haven't seen a good post with all the details like both TQ and UQ details and what they were wearing etc... but eventual we'll have one...

I was going to use the sport, and may still, but hell I've got several pounds left to use up... UQ here we come...

**wwk10** · 10-07-2011, 18:33

Ciphoto, i assumed 3" baffles. Temp ratings are subjective, but if the formula papa smurf posted is close, I think you have a warm winter quilt.

**nothermark** · 10-07-2011, 21:39

Just to get me calibrated. Why not use the sheet goods:

http://www.seattlefabrics.com/insulations.html

instead of the shredded stuff? It seems like it would be a lot simpler and cost competitive. What am I missing?

**PapaSmurf** · 10-07-2011, 21:53

Originally Posted by nothermark

Just to get me calibrated. Why not use the sheet goods:

http://www.seattlefabrics.com/insulations.html

instead of the shredded stuff? It seems like it would be a lot simpler and cost competitive. What am I missing?

Cost primarily. Primaloft Sport is about 2.5 times the cost of Primaloft Thermo.

**ciphoto** · 10-07-2011, 22:04

I think Papa Smurf formula is for the sport. I don't believe this is figures the same.

Northmark the 5 lbs was $35, so I thought it would be worth playing with and cost wise if it works as good way better. Thanks for the link to Seattle Fabrics though. The other vendors I have only had sport. But I think I've read it holds up the loft better, longer than pl1.