Nearly completed Kickass Inspired underquilt

[Patrick]

TOG, glad you're okay. You're saying both the hammock support and the underquilt suspension line failed at the same time? Once the red has faded, I'm very curious to hear more details about exactly what happened.

[The Breeze]

Not all cable ties are created the same. The cheap one' s you buy at the walmart aren't that strong, but the 3 m ones you get at the auto part store with the metal tooth are pound rated. These are what I use at work and have never seen them fail at all. Just my two .

[Touch of Grey]

Patrick and all! No the hammock main (head and foot support) did not fail. It was the underquilt only head end shock cord that failed. I'm still looking at it and the feeling I'm getting is that either I had the shock cord stretched to it's max and it gave or the shock cord itself failed.

I'm leaning towards operator error on this one. Meaning it was my fault and not that of the shock cord.

The side tie-out failure was a fault of the material and sewing fom HH. The bartacking to hold the loop on the side of the hammock was to tight and close together effectively stressing the material to fail soon anyway. I'm not faulting HH as they make a great product and with all of the hammock they produce obviously they will have one here and there that will be a problem. Besides it is repairable, it was just the loop itself and not the rest of the hammock that tore.

As I see it, I'll fix it and give it another try in a few days. I will have my son or my wife assist me in getting the adjustments made this time instead of doing them myself and then crawling in and out until I get the fit right.

Again this was a failure of the three foot loop that holds up the head and foot ends of the underquilt to the hammock. It literally failed at or near the figure-eight knot for the loop to clip over the hammock end for the cold position. Thus I could have when I pulled the knot tight abraded the shock-cord sufficiently to have aided in its failure.

As the new saying goes, "My BAD!". I sure am glad to be home and finding these things out instead of on the trail and limited in my options.

TOG

[Touch of Grey]

Here are some pitures of the failure of the underquilt shock-cord ends. Hopefully you can or will see where they failed at.

TOG

[Coffee]

It sounds like you are hanging the underquilt too tight against the hammock. The underquilt is holding your weight instead of the hammock. That could explain why the shock cord broke.

On my JRB nest hangs just below the hammock but toughing the bottom of the hammock. While laying in the hammock I can move the underquilt around. Easier to do in a top loader than a HH.

Worth a look.

[The Breeze]

how much down do you need to get to make a under quilt? might run up to speers, hes not far. need to get on this thing. hope to make the campout sat.

[Coffee]

how much down do you need to get to make a under quilt? might run up to speers, hes not far. need to get on this thing. hope to make the campout sat.

TOG's underquilt is made using synethic insulation via Patrick's directions on www.kickassquilts.com.

Someone by the name of Arkwater posted something on a downquilt he made. I think slowhike did too. Slowhike started a thread on a down hammock that might be helpful. Jeff has a down hammock on his site too.

If you make one, post directions and some pics along the way. I am planning on making one eventually and could use some tips.

[Patrick]

Marty, thanks for the pics and extra info. I'm clear on what you mean now. Let me respond a little over-elaborately in the hopes that it might help someone else reading this.

Sounds like you may be correct about the cord being abraded. Just to be clear though, hammock engineer is absolutely right - the underquilt should not be supporting your weight at all. The suspension shock cord shouldn't be pulled to its limit or it will definitely fail.

When setting up and before getting in, the underquilt should hang 8" - 12" below the bottom of the hammock. That is, the part of the underquilt that will be up against your butt should, not the sides. Ideally, when you get in, the hammock will settle to just touching the underquilt. Practically, that's hard to achieve, which is why the suspension is elastic. That gives you a margin of error that makes correct adjustment without gaps or over-compression very simple.

There's also a fail-safe built-in to the toggle system, which it's possible we over-rode with your set up, TOG. The suspension cord attaches to the hammock support lines via a loop and toggle. The loop is a small nylon prussik tied and left on the hammock line. The toggle is a cord lock that has the suspension line threaded through it.

Because the cord lock is what's gripping the underquilt suspension lines, any very strong force applied to the underquilt should pull the suspension through the toggle long before the line snaps. This has proven to be very useful because the tension there is about at the right level that if you over-tighten the suspenion lines and get in, it will slip just enough to leave you set up correctly without excess compression of the insulation.

TOG, you were having some trouble with it slipping too much, so we talked about tying a couple of knots behind the cord lock to give it something more to grip. The cord lock is still plenty big enough to accomodate this and be adjustable, but now it will adjust to the "steps" you've tied in rather than by sliding. If these knots are big enough to be able to keep the shock cord in place under heavy load and you're applying a lot of force to the underquilt, you could definitely snap the cord.

So, I'd suggest exploring the possibility that you're setting the underquilt up too tight, if for no other reason than to rule it out. You seem to get a good night's sleep, so it doesn't sound like you're compressing the insulation. On the other hand, you did seem to have an unusual amount of trouble with the shockcord slipping before, so it would be good to double-check. What I would suggest is that you set the underquilt so that when you're in the hammock, the quilt is hanging just a little too low. Have someone verify that it's doing that at the lowest point, not just under the entrance slit. Then, snug it up enough to just touch you, then just a little more. Compare that to how you've been hanging it and see if it's maybe been too tight.

If that's not it, I would suggest that maybe it's your shockcord just because this is the second problem you've had with it. I'm not familiar with what you have in the picture, with the little white bits in it, but I'd be happy to send you enough of what I use myself to re-do what you have. I haven't had a problem with it myself and haven't had any negative feedback either.

Sorry for the novel-length response. Just trying to be sure I'm clear to anyone using this for help. Don't be discouraged. Part of making your own gear is catastrophic failure Yesterday I was doing some work at my mom's house and showing a friend my new hammock. She'd had a tree cut down in the back yard, so I was forced to rig something up off of the fence. I came down hard on my *** in the mud, much to my friend's amusement.

[The Breeze]

thanks hammonk engineer for the help you got it going on. I read and read but can never find any thing when im looking for it so it looks like this thing is going to cost me some money heheheh good thing i own three banks I will keep you in mind when i finish thanks again!

[slowhike]

how much down do you need to get to make a under quilt? might run up to speers, hes not far. need to get on this thing. hope to make the campout sat.

i was waiting to see how much others used in there under quilts.
i used 9ozs in my insulated hammock. i think that thread, "slowhike's down hammock" is in the home made gear forum.