All confused now...

[NCPatrick]

has anyone experienced problems with insulation that is only stabilized at the edges, or does everyone use quilt loops?

Why yes! I had a quilt made by Fanatic Fringe that only had insulation sewn down at the edges. I had a LOT of difficulty with it ballooning up whenever I used it. It blocked my breathing. (Well, it's all in the linked thread). Granted, it was an overquilt only, and you're speaking here of underquilts, but I still am convinced that quilting loops are a necessity (and another thing -- semantically, why call it a quilt then if there's nothing quilted in it?)

My .02...

[gstepclassical]

Wiggy's bag are all Lamilite which is continuous filament and he only "attaches" the insulation at the "edges" - the shell material just "floats" on the insulation. He advocates that anything penetrating the insulation partially defeats the insulation. Not his exact words, just what I have distilled from reading his material.

I don't know if you have worked with climashield but I would be willing to bet a rather large sum of money that using quilting loops in the manner described on the KAQ site would result in no measurable degradation of the insulation. Using loops helps to keep all four layers, and in the case of my wifes UQ five layers, in place. Climashield is pretty tough in one direction but feels as though it will pull apart in the other direction pretty easily. At any rate I would be very careful when putting the UQ into a stuff sack.

[slowhike]

Why yes! I had a quilt made by Fanatic Fringe that only had insulation sewn down at the edges. I had a LOT of difficulty with it ballooning up whenever I used it. It blocked my breathing. (Well, it's all in the linked thread). Granted, it was an overquilt only, and you're speaking here of underquilts, but I still am convinced that quilting loops are a necessity (and another thing -- semantically, why call it a quilt then if there's nothing quilted in it?)

My .02...

yeah, i remember that. i wish i had looked at that in person. i'd like to understand the cause of that better.
i'm thinking if both outer layers (shell/liner) are highly wind resistance (DWR treated) they would not let air escape easy & therefore when you compress one part of the quilt you would get the balloon effect that patrick was getting.
but if the liner (bottom) breathed freely, that shouldn't happen.
of course there's what gstepclassical was talking about w/ the insulation being easy to pull apart in one direction. that could be a problem maybe?

[T-Dubs]

Forum,
Thank you all for sharing so much so quickly. I appreciate your efforts to give me the best information possible. This really is a great place to spend some time and, hopefully, learn enough to make my hammock experience positive.

TWS

[BillyBob58]

T-Dubs, here is another blast from the past from Whiteblaze, a good discussion of the SS, in case you are still considering that approach, or making your own version.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...t=SuperShelter

TH says he can use the SS down to about 25* if he adds the spaceblanket. Several people find that to be an outrageous claim, but Gegg3 and Stevenleelazarus and several others at WB report it works about that good for them, for some even better.

I can't quite do that good, but I can definitely get within 5 or 10* with the basic system. But as usual, I'm thinking of my systems approach. Since I usually hike places where I am at least sometimes above treeline, I ALWAYS take a pad. I guess others might also occasionally be forced into shelters.

So for those of us who have to take at least a light pad anyway, this can make a really good system. Just to be conservative, forget those who say they can do 25* with the most basic SS. Let's just use 40* for a lot of folks, though a few could not get even that low. However, I know I can beat that. This system weighs 13 oz. According to Speer's SPE info, some people have done 37* with a ridgrest alone. That's 14 oz. before you trim it to fit the hammock. Is that then at least 25* of insulation? Is it additive? If so, then the SS ( alone on the milder nights) +the Ridgerest ( on the REALLY cold nights) should get me (you?) to about 15*. ( I found 22* toasty with this combo). For 27 oz ( less if you trim the pad), and you can go to ground. Or, TWO Gossamer Gear 3/8" pads ( 59" long") will get even more R value and weigh 11 oz, for 24 oz. total. More likely, one 3/8" GG pad ( $20) plus the SS ought to get you into the 20s for total weight of 18 oz. That's not a bad system.

Of course, if you use the pad in the hammock, you might want an SPE to make it very managable, and that would add 3 or 4 oz. But TeeDee has told us how he puts those GossGear pads on top of the HH OCF pad, with much success. To at least, if memory serves, 17*?

But if you just want to save maximum bucks ( way less than $100) and also keep it dirt simple, an SPE (4 0z) and a couple of GG pads ( 11 oz), should get you at least to 30, and you can go to ground. Or a couple of Walmart 1/2" pads in an SPE should get you to the teens. And simple- nothing to ever adjust, just lay down. Though without the wide OCF HH pad, you will either have to add some CCF to the wings of the SPE ( a couple of more oz). OR, be able to add some clothing to the wings.

One other option I'm looking into is the BMW torsolight. Inflatable, a claimed r-value of 3.5, and only 10.5 oz. and is claimed to be very durable.

Well, there are a lot of ways to skin these cold cats. All of this without even getting to the very popular quilts. Or Pea Pods!

[warbonnetguy]

i thought wiggy's insul was also laminated to one of the shells.

Wiggy's bag are all Lamilite which is continuous filament and he only "attaches" the insulation at the "edges" - the shell material just "floats" on the insulation. He advocates that anything penetrating the insulation partially defeats the insulation. Not his exact words, just what I have distilled from reading his material.

[T-Dubs]

T-Dubs, here is another blast from the past from Whiteblaze, a good discussion of the SS, in case you are still considering that approach, or making your own version.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...t=SuperShelter

<SNIP>

Thanks for the information and the link.

T-WS

[TeeDee]

i thought wiggy's insul was also laminated to one of the shells.

I've never heard that before.

Just spent a few minutes on his web site here and could find no mention of laminating the lamilite to the shell. Also, it would seem that laminating to the shell would inhibit the escape of moisture. If it would/does, then I doubt he would do it.

Can you confirm that?

[Peter_pan]

Under quilts are best suspended gently against the bottom of the laden hammock.... You really do not want them perminently attached because nights over 80, 70 for some are arguably too warm for the UQ. That brings up another point, UQs with the ability to "open or close the window" on each end provide the maximum of comfort over the widest temp range....


While I'm biased these are simple facts.

Pan

[TeeDee]

.... You really do not want them perminently attached because nights over 80, 70 for some are arguably too warm for the UQ. ...

Along that line, Just Jeff made a down hammock in which the under quilt was essentially permanently attached. He developed problems with that - if I remember correctly the top of the quilt stretched more than the bottom of the quilt in certain areas which compressed the down in those areas and led to cold or cool spots.

So it would seem that you definitely want the underquilt to "float" under the hammock.