MEMBRANE 15D ultralight Sil

[ripstopbytheroll]

Over the past few months, I've worked on a couple new coated fabrics for use in tarps and shelters. The first of these was silpoly and the second is what I'll show you today.

Between the coating consistency, thickness, preparation of the base fabric, and finishing, it takes a mill experienced in coated fabrics to come up with a reliable high-quality result. The bottom line is that making high-quality sil coated fabrics is HARD. Add in requirements for high HH (waterproofing) while pushing weight even lower and finding a suitable fabric becomes quite challenging.

It has taken several months of searching, experimenting, and testing, but I finally have something that I'm excited about. I call it MEMBRANE sil.

98188

In this pic, I'm weighing 1 linear yard of the fabric (width x 36"). When you account for the width of 65", you get a finished weight of 1.05 oz/sq yd. Compare that to the 1.2 oz finished weight for the silpoly and 1.24 oz for the silnylon. Applied to an example cat-cat tarp I have in silnylon (12' ridgeline, 8' between ground tie-outs, no doors) that weighs in at 14.3 oz, using MEMBRANE sil would get you to 12.2 oz (assuming 95% of weight is in fabric).

I won't reveal everything about the fabric, but I will tell you that I've done some specific things to increase the waterproofness and significantly reduce the stretch, both of which are a constant issue with lightweight coated fabrics (i.e. 1.1 oz silnylon and below).

As far as availability, I'm going to put 100 yds of the material on the site tonight at $9.50 /yd. I only have one roll at the moment and once this is gone, I won't have anymore for at least a week but potentially a bit longer. I know this is more expensive than the 1.1 oz silpoly/silnylon and previous ultralight sil fabrics, but MEMBRANE sil is a very different material. If you're looking to shave weight on a tarp without giving up a ton of performance, this is what you want to use. The link below will be active later tonight.

-> http://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/membrane-sil

98189

[heycorb]

Liking the 65" width.

[heycorb]

Any HH rating?

[ripstopbytheroll]

Liking the 65" width.

Yes I'm working with a new mill for this and they can do things a little wider. Having the HH tested right now and will report once I have it. Since this is an ultralight Sil done on a thinner base fabric, I expect it to be lower. However, this is also a high quality coating. The number is only part of the story when it comes to waterproofness over time and the usable lifespan of a tarp made out of a given material.

[Mouseskowitz]

I'm interested to hear how the stretch of this compares to some of the other similar products on the market.

[atrane21]

link doesn't work.

[ripstopbytheroll]

link doesn't work.

Still at shop. Will update soon.

[HammockFan]

I like it. Keep up the good work!

[ripstopbytheroll]

Link should work now: http://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/membrane-sil

[ripstopbytheroll]

I MADE A MISTAKE. $9.50 /yd is a lot to pay for material you don't know anything about. Instead of telling you, I figured I'd show you, so I devised a little at-home experiment to test the MEMBRANE sil against a standard 15D silicone coated ripstop nylon (my sample, not someone else's product). The results were startling. I'll try to post a short vid tonight to show everyone.

98619

[ripstopbytheroll]

I MADE A MISTAKE. $9.50 /yd is a lot to pay for material you don't know anything about. Instead of telling you, I figured I'd show you, so I devised a little at-home experiment to test the MEMBRANE sil against a standard 15D silicone coated ripstop nylon (my sample, not someone else's product). The results were startling. I'll try to post a short vid tonight to show everyone.

98619

Good morning everyone. I haven't had a chance to make this vid just yet, but I'll go ahead and tell you what happens - the MEMBRANE sil holds up much better under static water pressure AND simulataneous abrasion (rubbing and pushing on the fabric with your finger). It turns out that the test of just turning the glass up and watching for moisture isn't all that hard to pass. Every fabric I tested did that. It's when you rub the fabric while under water pressure that you really see the difference.

In short, I was able to make the standard 0.9 oz silnylon wet out in 5-10 seconds of mild abrasion with my finger. The MEMBRANE sil on the other hand, never wets out even after a minute of the same procedure. Shout out to Dave-O for sparking the idea for this test when he asked about waterproofness under abrasion.

I'm doing tests like this in an effort to back up my claims on MEMBRANE sil. I'm just not a fan of blanket statements about the performance of a fabric and I'm guessing most of you aren't either. I'd rather take a few extra steps and show you some evidence.

To go even further, we have some sample yardage in the mail to a couple custom tarp ninjas and they will provide some additional feedback after working with the fabric. Anxious to see the first pics of what they come up with!

[Dave-O]

Kyle, Thanks for doing this test. I can't wait to see the video.

[PappyAmos]

Thanks for the update Kyle. Following this with great interest.

[Just Bill]

Kyle-
The BPL inspired Paper towel over wet towel test is a good one too.
Put wet towel down, then fabric, then paper towel and kneel on the towel to see if moisture comes through.

You'd need a tall pipe for a true HH test but that said- this abrasion test is very useful as most of the failure issues come from brushing up or even touching the sil in a smaller shelter or tightly pitched tarp.

Granted I wouldn't expect a UL sil to pass this test, but it might pass a hand pressure or elbow test- which would be plenty for a tarp. The knee test is for shelter floors.

[ripstopbytheroll]

Kyle-
The BPL inspired Paper towel over wet towel test is a good one too.
Put wet towel down, then fabric, then paper towel and kneel on the towel to see if moisture comes through.

You'd need a tall pipe for a true HH test but that said- this abrasion test is very useful as most of the failure issues come from brushing up or even touching the sil in a smaller shelter or tightly pitched tarp.

Granted I wouldn't expect a UL sil to pass this test, but it might pass a hand pressure or elbow test- which would be plenty for a tarp. The knee test is for shelter floors.

Thanks Bill I hadn't heard of that one but will give it a try also. The first hydrostatic head measurements are in btw.....

Using Jis 1099 B2 method, the average is 2114 mm on a sample of 5 sites. For a standard ASTM water column test, this would convert to >1000 mm HH. Also important to note there were no huge outliers (i.e very high or very low numbers) within the set of data.

[TPole]

Using Jis 1099 B2 method,

Thanks for sharing this type of info! As a fellow engineer I appreciate the diligence needed to conduct proper testing and this proves you are going about things the right way.

Not intending to question the results but I am curious how you got to the head measurement? The info I found on the spec had results in mass/area/time. Again not trying to call you out because I appreciate the effort you put in (downproofness testing is another example), I am just wanting to learn / understand as much as possible. Thanks for all that you do!

[ripstopbytheroll]

Thanks for sharing this type of info! As a fellow engineer I appreciate the diligence needed to conduct proper testing and this proves you are going about things the right way.

Not intending to question the results but I am curious how you got to the head measurement? The info I found on the spec had results in mass/area/time. Again not trying to call you out because I appreciate the effort you put in (downproofness testing is another example), I am just wanting to learn / understand as much as possible. Thanks for all that you do!

I think the test method may have just been mislabeled on the lab sheet and it should have been JIS 1092. I will confirm with the lab on Monday. I've tested before and never encountered the JIS method, so I had to get clarification on the results myself. From what I'm told, there are JIS and ASTM test standards that each report water column in mm, but JIS numbers are usually much higher. What we typically see are ASTM numbers, which is why it's important to specify. Even then, this is just one figure of merit and there are a lot of variables at play when talking about the overall quality/lifespan of any coated fabric. Good catch btw!

[TPole]

I think the test method may have just been mislabeled on the lab sheet and it should have been JIS 1092. I will confirm with the lab on Monday. I've tested before and never encountered the JIS method, so I had to get clarification on the results myself. From what I'm told, there are JIS and ASTM test standards that each report water column in mm, but JIS numbers are usually much higher. What we typically see are ASTM numbers, which is why it's important to specify. Even then, this is just one figure of merit and there are a lot of variables at play when talking about the overall quality/lifespan of any coated fabric. Good catch btw!

Thank you for the quick reply and explanation, that makes perfect sense. Although I certainly don't have the knowledge or experience to judge the proper usage of the tests, I was curious about the use of the 1099 test because it appears to be geared towards breathable garment fabrics rather than waterproof shelter fabrics. I do know I would not turn down a highly breathable waterproof tarp fabric at 1oz/yd.though! :)

Agreed that this is a small piece of the whole puzzle when it comes to the overall quality. I started my college life as a textile engineer before deciding that mechanical was a better fit for me. There is a lot more to textiles than meets the eye.

Thanks again for all you are doing for us DIY'ers!

BTW, is there any chance we will see HyperD in olive yellow? I love that color and want to make a set of quilts to match my tarp! Thanks again.

[Dave-O]

I think the test method may have just been mislabeled on the lab sheet and it should have been JIS 1092. I will confirm with the lab on Monday. I've tested before and never encountered the JIS method, so I had to get clarification on the results myself. From what I'm told, there are JIS and ASTM test standards that each report water column in mm, but JIS numbers are usually much higher. What we typically see are ASTM numbers, which is why it's important to specify. Even then, this is just one figure of merit and there are a lot of variables at play when talking about the overall quality/lifespan of any coated fabric. Good catch btw!

Kyle,

Any update on the hydrostatic head results?

Sincerely,
Dave-O

[ripstopbytheroll]

Kyle,

Any update on the hydrostatic head results?

Sincerely,
Dave-O

Not yet. Will report back as soon as I do.

[Just Bill]

99112
99113

Haven't had a chance to do anything but look at it- but here is some Sil-Membrane next to some Sil-Argon.
I assumed that the Membrane would be a ripstop, but it's not. That's not a complaint, actually likely a boon. Ripstop does stop rips, but according to some knowledgeable folks leads to inconsistency of coating and early wear. NOT knocking or advocating one or the other- just adding to the discussion. Different stuff for different applications- This fabric seems ideal for a steep sided tarp or mid style shelter, and the added width is a pretty big deal for me personally- further reducing weight by eliminating seams.

The bit of fabric I did spread out is very smooth, uniform in color and weave. It looks very nice and I look forward to working with it.

[ripstopbytheroll]

99112
99113

Haven't had a chance to do anything but look at it- but here is some Sil-Membrane next to some Sil-Argon.
I assumed that the Membrane would be a ripstop, but it's not. That's not a complaint, actually likely a boon. Ripstop does stop rips, but according to some knowledgeable folks leads to inconsistency of coating and early wear. NOT knocking or advocating one or the other- just adding to the discussion. Different stuff for different applications- This fabric seems ideal for a steep sided tarp or mid style shelter, and the added width is a pretty big deal for me personally- further reducing weight by eliminating seams.

The bit of fabric I did spread out is very smooth, uniform in color and weave. It looks very nice and I look forward to working with it.

Thanks for posting Bill. The plain weave was done on purpose and is one of the BIG advantages of Membrane. The cost is slightly higher, but the return is huge.

I want everyone to have the opportunity to see, feel, use this fabric before investing, so I'm making a move to do just that. Stay tuned later today for details.

[squidbilly]

This really is a great fabric for tarps.

Here is my review:www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php/103344-Membrane-Sil-15-denier-Review

I had mine up last weekend in sustained rain. It rained here for almost a full 24 hours, ranging from heavy downpours to constant light mist. Dry as a bone inside. I even rubbed on the sides to try and make it leak. The only drips I got were from one end of my ridgeline seam,and this was totally my fault. I was trying to extend the silnet ( barely had enough) and was trying to get it done in time for the rain. It still took about six hours for that to leak.