"bishop's" (?) bag

[tight-wad]

Just made a pitiful looking stuff sack. I don't need a "snakeskin." A stuff sack with a normal opening on one end and a smaller hole on the other for the web connection to the tree would suffice. I seem to remember seeing this called a bishop's bag somewhere???

What's the trick for making the bottom: 1/2 a normal stuff sack bottom, and 1/2 a stuff sack draw cord hole? There's got to be a pattern out there somewhere?

My ugly duckling wound up being a fat sleeve with equal draw cords on each end. It will work, but it doesn't "look good."

[Just Jeff]

Directions here - http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearBlackbishopSack.html

You can use a button-hole for the bottom opening, if your machine has that option.

[blackbishop351]

I've got a much nicer and more durable way to make these now...still working out some bugs, though. I'll have info available soon.

[Coffee]

That's what I use now too. Much nicer than the skins for me.

[tight-wad]

Here's what I did this afternoon:
- 14" x 20" piece of scrap 1.9 ripstop
- hem the long ends
- make button holes on each end below the hems
- fold over and rip stitch a seam along the 14" side
- create a "normal" stuff sack draw cord channel on one end
- sew 4 short seams perpendicular to the hem, 2 on each side of the button hole
- about 3" from the button hole
- make one cut on each side between the seams
- (the fun begins) roll the fabric over to create a small draw cord channel
- go slow, just shove the fabric whereever you can
- sew a seam from the bottom of the channel to the edge of the sack body on each side
- you could trim off the excess between these new seams and the hems if you really want to count the grams
- flip it inside out

This isn't water tight, and maybe the 2nd draw cord on the bottom isn't really necessary, but it looks kinda cool.

[blackbishop351]

This isn't water tight, and maybe the 2nd draw cord on the bottom isn't really necessary, but it looks kinda cool.

No stuff sack is watertight unless it has a full rolled closure. Pix would help, btw! :p

[headchange4u]

A BB sack is my next project. I saw NCPatricks at the SEHHA camp out and I really liked it. One of my favorite uses was how it could be used to store small amounts of gear when the hammock is setup.

I want to make a roll top bag, much like the JRB compression sack, with a length of webbing that can be used in compressing the hammock when storedin the bag. My delima right now it some way to seal the hole in the rear of the sack so that it will be fairly water tight.

EDIT:
BB,
If you don't mind me asking, are you putting round bottoms on the sacks now?

[stoikurt]

Here's what I did this afternoon:
- 14" x 20" piece of scrap 1.9 ripstop
- hem the long ends
- make button holes on each end below the hems
- fold over and rip stitch a seam along the 14" side
- create a "normal" stuff sack draw cord channel on one end
- sew 4 short seams perpendicular to the hem, 2 on each side of the button hole
- about 3" from the button hole
- make one cut on each side between the seams
- (the fun begins) roll the fabric over to create a small draw cord channel
- go slow, just shove the fabric whereever you can
- sew a seam from the bottom of the channel to the edge of the sack body on each side
- you could trim off the excess between these new seams and the hems if you really want to count the grams
- flip it inside out

This isn't water tight, and maybe the 2nd draw cord on the bottom isn't really necessary, but it looks kinda cool.

I don't understand the need for a second draw cord on the bottom. The sack is nothing more and a stuff bag big enough to hold your hammock (and UQ, if used) with a small hole in the bottom for the hammock strap or cord to pass through.

[headchange4u]

I am just going to use a small hole in the bottom with grosgrain trim. I don't see the need for a bottom drawstring either.

[blackbishop351]

A second drawstring is just another way to do this - I've actually tried it because it's more durable than a simple hole (like Jeff's, even with a buttonhole) and easier to sew than what I'm doing now. I didn't like it as well as the current design though.

The design issues you run into with this only come from trying to use the sack as storage while hanging. If you just want a sack to stuff the hammock in, you don't really need to worry about the durability of the hole so much. If you're going to have weight in the sack while it's on the suspension, however, the hole bears a good portion of the weight so you have to make it pretty strong.

Headchange - A previous version used a "normal" square bottom, with some slight modification. It was pretty easy to sew, but didn't end up working quite as well as I wanted for storage. I went to the round bottom because it allowed more optimal hole placement, and it let me easily install the end pocket for strap storage.

[stoikurt]

My delima right now it some way to seal the hole in the rear of the sack so that it will be fairly water tight.


Just an idea: If you are using small spectra from the hammock to the rings, tie a simple overhand knot in the spectra so the knot will be against the hole on the inside of the bag. Possibly tie another overhand knot in the spectra outside and as close to the hole as possible. Cover the inside and outside knots and hole with silicon caulk.

[blackbishop351]

Just an idea: If you are using small spectra from the hammock to the rings, tie a simple overhand knot in the spectra so the knot will be against the hole on the inside of the bag. Possibly tie another overhand knot in the spectra outside and as close to the hole as possible. Cover the inside and outside knots and hole with silicon caulk.

If you're going to use the bag for storage, it needs to be able to slide back and forth on the suspension. Otherwise the tension will probably rip the hole open, especially if there's any wind around.

[blackbishop351]

I want to make a roll top bag, much like the JRB compression sack, with a length of webbing that can be used in compressing the hammock when storedin the bag. My delima right now it some way to seal the hole in the rear of the sack so that it will be fairly water tight.

IMO there's no reason to seal a stuff sack. If you don't have a water resistant system already in place with the rest of your kit, your stuff is going to get wet regardless. JMO.

[headchange4u]

IMO there's no reason to seal a stuff sack. If you don't have a water resistant system already in place with the rest of your kit, your stuff is going to get wet regardless. JMO.

That's kinda my though on it also, but I would still like to find a way to kinda waterproof the hole just to calm my OCD mind.:rolleyes: :D .

I keep my hammock in it's own stuff sack and my tarp in snake skins, and then all of that is put inside a JRB compression sack so I guess that makes everything pretty water tight, but I know that hole is there and it bugs me.

[blackbishop351]

That's kinda my though on it also, but I would still like to find a way to kinda waterproof the hole just to calm my OCD mind.:rolleyes: :D .

I keep my hammock in it's own stuff sack and my tarp in snake skins, and then all of that is put inside a JRB compression sack so I guess that makes everything pretty water tight, but I know that hole is there and it bugs me.

Hmmm...unless your tarp is wet?

Do you not use a pack cover or liner or something too? I guess I'm just not that worried about my gear getting wet. Until recently, I've been using stuff sacks that weren't really water resistant in the least...and just a pack cover over that. I've only gotten my gear soaked once, and that was my own fault...btw try not to drop your pack in a deep creek (don't ask) :rolleyes:

[lvleph]

I am not sure how the bag is made, but I would have the bottom as two pieces sewn together in a flat fell or a french sem, except the portion for the hole. On the edge of the hole I would bar tack. This would make the hole seal off better than something that was just cut into the fabric. I need to make me a bishop sack this weekend, along with a gear hammock. I suppose I should make myself a MacCat clone (the other was for my wife).

[blackbishop351]

I am not sure how the bag is made, but I would have the bottom as two pieces sewn together in a flat fell or a french sem, except the portion for the hole. On the edge of the hole I would bar tack. This would make the hole seal off better than something that was just cut into the fabric. I need to make me a bishop sack this weekend, along with a gear hammock. I suppose I should make myself a MacCat clone (the other was for my wife).

I tried that, too - thanks to HE for that idea. The problem I had there was hole placement again - for storage, you want the hole in the very edge of the bottom, so that the support line runs right along the side of the bag when hung.

[headchange4u]

Hmmm...unless your tarp is wet?

Do you not use a pack cover or liner or something too? I guess I'm just not that worried about my gear getting wet. Until recently, I've been using stuff sacks that weren't really water resistant in the least...and just a pack cover over that. I've only gotten my gear soaked once, and that was my own fault...btw try not to drop your pack in a deep creek (don't ask) :rolleyes:

No I don't put wet tarps in my pack:rolleyes: :D . BTW, the second project after the BB sack will be no-see-um tarp skins.

Up until recently I used a pack liner like a garbage bags and a silnylon pack cover. I recently switch to a GG Latitude Vapor which is a panel loader not a top loader and the garbage bag liner does not work well with this type of pack. I also don't use a pack cover unless it's raining.

I am a little paranoid about my gear getting wet. I was once rock hopping across a stream, lost my balance, and fell straight backward in the water. Soaked everything in my pack (I wasn't using a liner at the time). Now I like everything to be at least a little bit waterproof for my piece of mind.

[blackbishop351]

No I don't put wet tarps in my pack:rolleyes: :D . BTW, the second project after the BB sack will be no-see-um tarp skins.

Up until recently I used a pack liner like a garbage bags and a silnylon pack cover. I recently switch to a GG Latitude Vapor which is a panel loader not a top loader and the garbage bag liner does not work well with this type of pack. I also don't use a pack cover unless it's raining.

I am a little paranoid about my gear getting wet. I was once rock hopping across a stream, lost my balance, and fell straight backward in the water. Soaked everything in my pack (I wasn't using a liner at the time). Now I like everything to be at least a little bit waterproof for my piece of mind.

Gotcha...I guess what I'm getting at is that the hole isn't going to make the sack any less waterproof than a drawstring closure. But if you're wanting a rolled closure, I can understand wanting more protection for the hole. Have fun figuring that out - I haven't come up with anything yet :p

[Coffee]

BB, did you just tell someone to add waterproofing to their setup? I thought water idn't concern you?:eek:

[lvleph]

You could try putting the bag sideways so that the opening of the bag is at the opening of the panel. I am sure you probably thought of this but...

[Coffee]

You could try putting the bag sideways so that the opening of the bag is at the opening of the panel. I am sure you probably thought of this but...

My issue with that design is it would involve putting a third hole in it. You would need 1 small hole for the support, 1 large hole opposite that to stuff the hammock in, and one large one on the side for storage options. Plus to me it sounds more difficult to use and make.

[lvleph]

Sorry I was referring to using a pack liner still for your paneled backpack.

[Coffee]

Sorry I was referring to using a pack liner still for your paneled backpack.

Ahh.

If it helps anyone. I put my sil BB sack into a seatosummit bag. I made it just smaller. That is all the waterproofing I do for it with my gearskin. I should add my ccp covers almost all of the contents to help with water and abrasion protection.

[headchange4u]

lVleph,

The thought of a side opening pack liner has crossed my mind. I would require a water proof zipper I think.....:rolleyes: :D

BB,

I have actually come up with a design on the BB sack that would pretty much make it water tight, or at least water resistant enough to keep the hammock dry unless it's submerged for a long time. I have been thinking about it since I got back from Hot Springs.

I have a sketch at home and I will post a pic tonight. I am going to try and make one this weekend. It would be fairly complicated to sew But I pretty sure it will work out.

[lvleph]

Fill it with air and submerge it and lets see how it fares. I would be interested in the results.

[headchange4u]

Fill it with air and submerge it and lets see how it fares. I would be interested in the results.

The pack liner or the BB sack?:confused:

If you are talking about the BB, submersion in a bathtub will be how it's tested. I will make my prototype from some really cool black fabric I picked at WM $1 bin not long ago.

[Drop]

A roll top with a tunnelled seam for the support line should allow for a BB type sack that can be waterproof.

If the tunnel opened at the base of the sack you might need to invert the sack when the hammock is hung but if the tunnel opened a few inches from the top it should hang nicely from the support lines giving a useful space for bits and bobs.

Because the line exits at the roll top end the folding should prove watertight whether the line is outside or not.

Sound feasible?

[headchange4u]

Here's my idea for my BB Sack:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/BBSack014.jpg


It's a combination of ideas from 3 different sacks: JRB compression sack (http://jacksrbetter.com/index_files/Products%20List_files/Stuff%20Sack.htm), the BB sack (http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearBlackbishopSack.html), and my GG Rock Solid (http://www.granitegear.com/products/packing_systems/factory_seam_sealed/drylite_rock_solid/index.html) sack I use for my WM sleeping bag.

It consists of the addition of a waterproof end cap (silynylon probably) and a BB sack with a roll top closure. The webbing on the roll top would pass through the buckles on the end cap and you would be able to seal the end where the hole for the suspension sack is located. It would also cover the straps that would be stored in the noseeum netting pouch. Areas of stress will be reinforced with grosgrain.

The only other option that I would add is a storage pockect inside the main BB sack that would be large enough to hold one of my zip on top covers.

The end cap should do the trick on keeping water out of the suspension hole and it would add the ability to be able to compress everything down some. Like I said, I don't think it's going to help if the sack is under water for a long time, but it should protect it from a dip in the creek.:p ;)

Opinions?

[blackbishop351]

I think you'd probably want the end pocket attached to the end cap, not the sack itself. That way you're keeping wet straps/cord separate from your dry hammock. The velcro for the end pocket isn't really necessary either, IMO. I thought about adding some, but it seems to work fine without. Other than that, it looks good. Have fun sewing it, though :p Way more complicated than I'd want to mess with...but I don't really worry about water that much like I said.

[Coffee]

That is a decent design. It would have to be a good seal on the bottom to keep water from coming into the support hole.

Something to keep in mind is that you are going to have to seam seal all of your exposed seams and stitches. If not the water would leak through.

[headchange4u]

I would definatly have to seal all the seams. I had thought about painting a perimeter of seal sealer around the suspension hole so when the end cap is sinched down it would act as sort of a gasket around the hole.

I had thought about wet webbing. I don't really want any webbing or line trailing out from under the end cap. It would just create a channel for water to get in. I could address this by moving the noseeum storage pouch on to the side of the sack, out from under the end cap. I would take the webbing off my ring buckles and put it on the outside of the bag to dry.

That does raise question of the webbing on the other end. Doesn't the webbing on the other end just go inside the BB sack with the hammock or do you put both piece of webbing in the noseeum pouch?

[blackbishop351]

I had thought about wet webbing. I don't really want any webbing or line trailing out from under the end cap. It would just create a channel for water to get in. I could address this by moving the noseeum storage pouch on to the side of the sack, out from under the end cap. I would take the webbing off my ring buckles and put it on the outside of the bag to dry.

That's what I was trying to say, I think :p


That does raise question of the webbing on the other end. Doesn't the webbing on the other end just go inside the BB sack with the hammock or do you put both piece of webbing in the noseeum pouch?

It's an either/or thing. It's more convenient to leave the webbing attached, so you'd do that whenver it's dry. When wet, just remove the webbing from the buckles and put it in the end pocket with the other strap.

[tight-wad]

Wow - a lot of discussion taking this much further than my simple question!

Somebody wanted a pix. Kinda pitiful looking, but remember this is just a design concept banged out in a couple of hours with scrap material. (The width of the fabric was 28" not 20" as in my first posting.)

I agree the draw sting on the bottom isn't completely necessary.

re: waterproof - that thought never crossed my mind. I do want it to be water repellent so that I can pull the hammock out to set it up under the tarp on a rainy day. I use a pack cover as a first line of defense, and then various sized zip lock bags on the inside.

[Coffee]

I think with it designed right it would shed rain. I do not think it would work against total submersion or prolonged downpours. That is why it is my second layer of protection behind my sea to summit bag.

[rptinker]

Here's my idea for my BB Sack:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/headchange4u/BBSack014.jpg


It's a combination of ideas from 3 different sacks: JRB compression sack (http://jacksrbetter.com/index_files/Products%20List_files/Stuff%20Sack.htm), the BB sack (http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearBlackbishopSack.html), and my GG Rock Solid (http://www.granitegear.com/products/packing_systems/factory_seam_sealed/drylite_rock_solid/index.html) sack I use for my WM sleeping bag.

It consists of the addition of a waterproof end cap (silynylon probably) and a BB sack with a roll top closure. The webbing on the roll top would pass through the buckles on the end cap and you would be able to seal the end where the hole for the suspension sack is located. It would also cover the straps that would be stored in the noseeum netting pouch. Areas of stress will be reinforced with grosgrain.

The only other option that I would add is a storage pockect inside the main BB sack that would be large enough to hold one of my zip on top covers.

The end cap should do the trick on keeping water out of the suspension hole and it would add the ability to be able to compress everything down some. Like I said, I don't think it's going to help if the sack is under water for a long time, but it should protect it from a dip in the creek.:p ;)

Opinions?

I already made three BB sacks and each one an improvment over the other (thanks to BB and JJ) but the one you described is the most innovative so far! Hmm, i think i still have some extra waterproof tafetta and webbing lying around somewhere...;)

[headchange4u]

Okay it's sad but I have been thinking about wet webbing all night. I think I have come up with a solution that will work for me.

My thought on this is that even if I moved the noseeum pocket to the outside of the BB sack so that it would not interfere with the the end cap I still have a bundle of wet webbing that will get stuffed inside my pack with the BB sack.

What I think I'm going to do is leave the noseeum pocket on the end of the BB sack. I am going to make a separate, small noseeum stuff sack that can be clipped on the outside of my pack so if I have wet webbing I can hang it outside the pack so it will have a chance to dry and will not get other things inside my pack wet. If the webbing is dry I will simply leave it in the BB sack for storage.

[blackbishop351]

Okay it's sad but I have been thinking about wet webbing all night. I think I have come up with a solution that will work for me.

My thought on this is that even if I moved the noseeum pocket to the outside of the BB sack so that it would not interfere with the the end cap I still have a bundle of wet webbing that will get stuffed inside my pack with the BB sack.

What I think I'm going to do is leave the noseeum pocket on the end of the BB sack. I am going to make a separate, small noseeum stuff sack that can be clipped on the outside of my pack so if I have wet webbing I can hang it outside the pack so it will have a chance to dry and will not get other things inside my pack wet. If the webbing is dry I will simply leave it in the BB sack for storage.

Lol...you're starting to sound as obsessive as me :p

That would work. I don't really have that issue with my gearskin clone; the end of the sack is pretty much open to the air anyway. Even with a "normal" pack, I think you'd probably be fine assuming all your other stuff is in sil too. But I understand your water phobia :p