ultralite sleep system?

[Diamond Diggs]

Hello, Hello

I am searching for the ultimate ultralite hanging system for my ATthru in march.

Qualities Looking for: Lightest available, comfortable, weatherproof

I currently carry a HH Deluxe, but I WILL be making another (lighter) hammock purchase.

Ultralite Items Needed:

Hammock: comfort/Bugnet(detachable-perm.)?

Tarp: Winter/3-Season/Summer/Sock ?

Insulation: UQ/Pad/TQ/Sock?


My goal is to keep my total winter pack down to 20# and summer pack down to 15#. Is it possible to have a winter sleep system under or at 3#?


I love to hear what you all have to say, and thanks again to Hooch for your advice and wealth of info you have already given me.

Diamond Diggs(a.k.a.-The Vagabond-onWB)

[Diamond Diggs]

evidently, this thread had some issues getting on the board and others being able to reply to it. I hope this fixes the problem.... look forward to all responses

[Just Jeff]

THE ultimate setup, huh? That's a pretty tall order. Especially b/c it will vary by opinion and exactly what YOUR priorities are. And what season you're hiking in, so your kit will probably vary while you're on the trail.

I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions...here's one example.

Warbonnet Blackbird hammock
OES MacCat Deluxe tarp
JRB Mt Washington 4 for top quilt
JRB Hood
Half-Underquilt (Te-Wa, Warbonnet Yeti Winter version, or JRB convertible MW)
Torso-length CCF pad for under your legs

In the summer, you'll scale back to a much thinner underquilt and top quilt, like a JRB Stealth.

Another approach:
Speer III
Speer PeaPod
Speer SnugFit
Speer Top Blanket
Speer 11x10 Cat Tarp

As it warms up, send home the SnugFit and just use the PeaPod and Top Blanket. As it warms up even more, send the PeaPod back home and just use the SnugFit and Top Blanket.

Even those have trade-off, though. If all you're looking for is light weight, you can't get any lighter than a couple of CCF pads. Stack them with a SPE for a bit of convenience. This is much bulkier than other options, of course.

So there really isn't an "ultimate" ultralight kit but I'm sure you can find something to fit your needs.

[Just Jeff]

You can get my with a smaller tarp if you use a hammock sock b/c the sock will protect your hammock (and toes!) from the wind. Waterproof ends will help in case rain blows in...one of mine has silnylon ends with a DWR main body. Then just send that home as the weather warms up.

[angrysparrow]

Another potential setup -

Hammock - Warbonnet Traveler
Tarp - OES MacCat Deluxe in SpinnUL
BugNet - Warbonnet Traveler Bug Net (bounce box this and use it only when bugs are out)
UQ - JRB MW3-C (Convertible UQ, send the unneeded foot section home when it warms up)
TQ - JRB No Sniveler

[Hooch]

Hey, welcome aboard! I'm glad you made it to HF with us. I was going to tell you what good advice you'd get here, but I see it's already started. :D Hope to see you in a couple weeks in Hot Springs.

[Diamond Diggs]

I was hoping that would work! That would potentially save quite a bit of weight dont you think?
A smaller diagonal silnylon rain fly (only two stakes), and a ultra lite weather sock to block wind and side blowing rain/snow?

Is there any new material out there yet that is lighter than silnylon and just as durable?

[Just Jeff]

Yeah - that would a great setup for most of the trail. You think it would get him thru the smokies in winter though?

Could always augment with a 1/2" CCF pad just for a few weeks, though. Would be much cheaper than the systems I listed, too.

[Diamond Diggs]

Hey, welcome aboard! I'm glad you made it to HF with us. I was going to tell you what good advice you'd get here, but I see it's already started. :D Hope to see you in a couple weeks in Hot Springs.

For Sure x2! Really good advice, and I am looking forward to Hot Springs!

[angrysparrow]

Is there any new material out there yet that is lighter than silnylon and just as durable?

For tarps, Spinnaker (SpinnUL) is lighter. OES (http://www.outdoorequipmentsupplier.com/) makes them to order.

[angrysparrow]

Yeah - that would a great setup for most of the trail. You think it would get him thru the smokies in winter though?

Could always augment with a 1/2" CCF pad just for a few weeks, though. Would be much cheaper than the systems I listed, too.

That's what I was thinking. Especially if there was already a partial pad or sit pad in the mix from a pack's framesheet. I think it could be made to work through the early spring, especially supplemented with any already carried clothing.

[Just Jeff]

SpinnTex is pretty promising. Some folks are saying Cuben Fiber is turning out to be not quite strong enough for a tarp...too susceptible to falling branches poking holes. Others seem to be happy with it...your call.

JRB 8x8 tarp and MacCat Micro are the two I'd look at. Or ask Brian at www.outdoorequipmentsupplier.com if he's still making the 5x8 ones...it's a little better coverage than the stock Hennessy.

But keep in mind that one some rainy days you may be spending a lot of time under these tarps. And March nights are still pretty long...that's not gonna be the most comfortable thing under a tiny tarp.

[Diamond Diggs]

Yeah - You think it would get him thru the smokies in winter though?

Diamond D. is a her not a him (if your were speaking of me, that is).

Seems like a wind proof sock is a pretty clever, potentially warmer way to go in the winter season being that you would have a complete 360d barrier?

[Hooch]

Diamond D. is a her not a him. I was gonna say the same thing. :D



Seems like a wind proof sock is a pretty clever, potentially warmer way to go in the winter season being that you would have a complete 360d barrier?I've got a hammock sock, courtesy of an HF member. It worked very well last year at our annual winter hang at Mt. Rogers and on a section hike when it got pretty cold and we ended up with several inches of snow.

One down side to hammock socks is that they're very prone to condensation. But they'll give you an extra 7-10 degrees in your hammock.

[gnome]

one has to consider cuben fiber if you are really serious about weight. tarp, hammock, pack,(pack can be water almost proof, eliminating pac covers etc.) stuff sacks. Cuben and down can get below some scary numbers! gnome

[ikemouser]

Check out nunatak quilts, crazy light as well, jrbs are good. I am in your exact situation too. I am looking to thru AT but need tq/uq too. I recommend you get a warbonnet hammock, just my 2 cents. I am thinking about JRBs or nunataks for my quilt options, i already have a yeti for my summer stuff, and a big agnes pitch pine 40 bag for summer as well.

Are you getting 2 tq/uqs, one for warm part, one for cold part of the trail? I mean are you gonna ship out your warm gear for cold gear when you hit the right area?

[Just Jeff]

Diamond D. is a her not a him (if your were speaking of me, that is).

DOH!! Couldn't quite tell from your avatar... :jj: Apologies.

I like hammock socks and usually have one in winter. Or at least Joker (my 10-y/o son) usually has mine.

[Doctari]

I love my hammock sock, adds easily 15 degrees to any set up you have! Mine is a little heavy at 15.5 Oz, but as it adds so much to the temp rating, & I count it as adding 7.75 Oz to my top insulation & 7.75 Oz to the bottom. Well worth the weight cost IMHO. PLUS, if you go with a smaller tarp, it adds just a little weather protection at minimal weight cost.
Mine is mostly ripstop nylon, if/when I make a new one I'll be making the bottom of sil, I figure to save at least 1 or 2 Oz.

[Diamond Diggs]

Awesome! This has given me a few really good ideas for a potentially awesome ultralite winter sleep kit. Im gonna do a little more research on some of the suggestions you all have mentioned and get back with you on it for your opinions.

Any more ideas? Let em' roll!

Thanks Bunches.

[Wentworth]

I think the insulated down hammock idea that JustJeff, Risk and I have made would have to be just about the lightest thing out there.

[BillyBob58]

I was hoping that would work! That would potentially save quite a bit of weight dont you think?
A smaller diagonal silnylon rain fly (only two stakes), and a ultra lite weather sock to block wind and side blowing rain/snow?

Is there any new material out there yet that is lighter than silnylon and just as durable?
That is the idea with the HH Super Shelter. The sil-nyl under cover definitely helps make up for any deficiencies in the small tarp. In fact, the argument could be made that it makes up for any lack of coverage ( only as far as keeping wind/rain off of the hammock) better than all but the very largest of hammocks or hammock huts could do.

But storm coverage while in the hammock is not the only consideration. For example, having a roomy place for one or more persons to gather, cooks, play cards, etc. during a multi-day storm is also a consideration for some folks. A big tarp wins hands down for that.

[Diamond Diggs]

yeah, this makes a lot more sense to me, personally, for weight concerns being the most important factor under saftey and adequate comfort. I intend on hanging near and around shelters most of the time and figure any "hang out" time can be done at the shelter, and I personally am a bit hesitant about the idea of cooking and eating around the area I inted to sleep. Is this not a notable concern?

I like the idea of a weathershield sock and smaller diag. tarp - for weight saving and perhaps even warmer temps inside the hammock - opposed to the use of a much larger, heavier winter-tarp that requires more tent stakes.


I think the insulated down hammock idea that JustJeff, Risk and I have made would have to be just about the lightest thing out there.

What exactly is this insulated down hammock idea?

[Just Jeff]

http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearDownHammock2.html

Definitely the lightest cold weather setup I've found, if you're comfortable sewing thru your hammock. I haven't had any problems with mine, other than the hammock stretching and the undercover not...so in effect it has lost loft right under my butt.

[gardenville]

Hello, Hello

I am searching for the ultimate ultralite hanging system for my ATthru in march.

Ultralite Items Needed:
========================================
Hammock: comfort/Bugnet(detachable-perm.)?*********[CUBEN]

Tarp: Winter/3-Season/Summer/Sock ?***************[Cuben]

Insulation: UQ/Pad/TQ/Sock?**************[Climashield XP and CUBEN]
========================================

My goal is to keep my total winter pack down to 20# and summer pack down to 15#. Is it possible to have a winter sleep system under or at 3#?

Diamond Diggs(a.k.a.-The Vagabond-onWB)

Hi Diamond D, interesting name, I have a cat named Diamond. I thought it was a girl and when I took it to be fixed they told me it was a boy. Didn't see any reason to change its name. It is a very sweet cat.

If you want the lightest set of sleep gear you want to go with Cuben Fiber. If you expected to buy new stuff you can buy the Cuben and maybe make it all yourself. That is the off-set for the cost of the Cuben. Another way to look at it is that Cuben isn't more than about 25% more than other good material and it will be so much lighter you may not believe the finished weight.

This is a link to my Cuben Hammock Thread located here at the Hammock Forum:

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=693

[Red Hat]

I don't think that any of the complete systems mentioned make it at under 3 lbs, as per his original request. Of course a tent, bag, and pad would normally weigh in at around 5-6 lbs at least. So my hammock system (Blackbird, Yeti, OES spinn standard tarp, and WMbag) is comparable.

[Peter_pan]

A sock and a small tarp is not lighter than a reasonable tarp.... Maybe so in summer when you send the sock home...

If light is a true requirement you'll need to swap items afte Mt Roger and back again in NH... Ie build a winter and summer set up or you will suboptimize one or the other....

Pan

[warbonnetguy]

A sock and a small tarp is not lighter than a reasonable tarp.... Maybe so in summer when you send the sock home...

If light is a true requirement you'll need to swap items afte Mt Roger and back again in NH... Ie build a winter and summer set up or you will suboptimize one or the other....

Pan

yeah, if i was going ultralight i'd consider ditching the sock, might be useful in the coldest parts, but even then it's still probably unnesecary. a decent tarp in the colder weather and then downsize that in the warmer months.

you're absolute lightest... ccf pad as bottom insulation would (i'm thinking) be lighter than a down hammock most likely, and you could easily switch out to thinner one when it warms up, just depends on how set you are about going as light as you can vs. going for convenience and comfort. down would certainly be more comfy for the duration, but probably not lighter.

[warbonnetguy]

http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearDownHammock2.html

Definitely the lightest cold weather setup I've found, if you're comfortable sewing thru your hammock. I haven't had any problems with mine, other than the hammock stretching and the undercover not...so in effect it has lost loft right under my butt.


how much weight did it add to the hammock for the outer shell + down? i would have thought ccf would be lighter. of course the comfort has to be figured in too

[Diamond Diggs]

yeah, if i was going ultralight i'd consider ditching the sock, might be useful in the coldest parts, but even then it's still probably unnesecary. a decent tarp in the colder weather and then downsize that in the warmer months.

yeah, maybe I should reconsider this, although i cant get away from the thought that a sock would be more effecient in keeping out the weather(rain,snow,wind) then just a larger tarp alone (even when bringing tarp down to ground level)??? Seems it would take less material to make a weather sock, then it would for a winter tarp that can be tied down to ground to block out the weather?

[warbonnetguy]

i think a med/small tarp+sock will be more fabric/heavier than a large winter tarp with no sock. i have no numbers to go by though, so you miight want to do the math yourself and see what the actual weights might be.

[MacEntyre]

You could solve this dilemma with one dual purpose item, such as a poncho. Isn't it easier to use a poncho as a sock, instead of a tarp?

- MacEntyre

[Captn]

One question for you.

How much is a good nights sleep worth?

People tend to focus on cost of gear when you're taking a long hike .... amortized by the nights spent outdoors, gear is actually cheap ... some gear may be a bit more per night, but not by much. $50 bucks divided by 40 nights is just a bit over a buck a day. So once cost is set aside, what is your top value?

Weight or comfort?

If it's weight, then optimize with that in mind. If comfort is more of a value, or of a equal value to you, then optimize with that in mind.

[koaloha05]

Not sure how cold your evenings and nights are. But if cold and sleeping with a top quilt pack a jacket with a hood. Cozy warm camp coat, keep the chill off when stop for rests while hiking and added insulation while you sleep. May be able to reduce the weight of your top quilt. Personal preference is bit pricey, but factoring in quality of build, function and fit plus it doubles for normal daily cold day wear worth the $$s. Montebell UL Thermawrap parka.

[MacEntyre]

Sounds like the choices in ultra light sleep systems favor the hot sleepers.

:mellow:

[koaloha05]

... personally am a bit hesitant about the idea of cooking and eating around the area I inted to sleep. Is this not a notable concern?...

Too many bears up here. Make a point if cooking a meal to eat relatively early and hike a bit before setting up camp. I'm a bit bear paranoid after an incident a number of years ago on SHT. So I guess it's bit dependent on your comfort level and the reality of what critters are possible camp visitors.

[Ronnwell]

For a lightweight kit balanced that has versatility (i.e. go-to-ground capability) and less bulk, here's my "Big 3" that I've arrived at for long-distance hiking:

"Colder" set-up:
ULA Circuit - 32 oz
Speer IIIA w/o bugnet - 18 oz
OES Ultra SpinnUL w/ guy lines/stakes - 13 oz
JRB Rocky Mountain No-snivler as TQ - 26 oz
JRB Stealth as UQ - 17 oz
Short Therm-a-rest Neoair - 9 oz
JRB Modified Dri-Ducks Poncho - weight not counted b/c its multi-use

--- Total = 115 oz / 7.19 lbs

This set-up will get me down to the teens (I'm a cold sleeper) when supplemented with additional clothing (I always bring a silk top/bottoms to sleep in). I toss my backpack in the hammock and put it under my feet. This hasn't happened, but if it gets too cold, I figure I can always go-to-ground and should be fine with two quilts laid on me. I'm toying with the idea of getting a 3-season 2/3 UQ which will save a few more ounces.

"Warmer" set-up
ULA Circuit - 32 oz
Speer IIIA w/ bugnet - 22 oz
OES Ultra SpinnUL w/ guy lines/stakes - 13 oz
JRB Stealth as TQ - 17 oz
Short Therm-a-rest Neoair - 9 oz
JRB Modified Dri-Ducks Poncho - weight not counted b/c its multi-use

--- Total = 93 oz / 5.81 lbs

This set-up works down to the 40's and is appropriate on the east coast from May to September.

Anyhow, more food for thought. Its not the "lightest" set-up out there, but like I said, I wanted a system that enables me to go-to-ground in a pinch and is less bulky (that's why I don't use the blue foam pads).

[Ronnwell]

Too many bears up here. Make a point if cooking a meal to eat relatively early and hike a bit before setting up camp. I'm a bit bear paranoid after an incident a number of years ago on SHT. So I guess it's bit dependent on your comfort level and the reality of what critters are possible camp visitors.

That's my approach: I usually have a rest/cook break around 2pm or 3pm and then hike for a few more hours. Cooking where you sleep is begging for trouble, ha.

[guySmiley]

This is what I've settled on (for now) for my PCT thru:

OES Deluxe Tarp - 11.8 oz
Speer Snugfit - 29 oz
Speer Hammock - 17 oz
Golite Ultra 20 quilt - 19 oz
Warbonnet bugnet - 7.4 oz
Z-Rest sleeping pad - 10 oz

I don't intend on mailing anything home at all. I just don't want to deal with the logistics of it. If my Snugfit is too warm I'll just vent it (undo the velcro on the sides.).

That comes out to just over 5 pounds which is hardly ultralight. It's reasonably light, considering it's a complete system which also allows me to sleep on the ground. My base weight for my pack is around 19 pounds. My gearlist (http://postholer.com/journal/viewGearlist.php?sid=d0bd7e4a238c98eae334514fdb206 aea&event_id=535) as it is so far.

I'm thinking that I may replace the Golite quilt with a Jacks R Better quilt. The weight difference is something like an 1 oz. and the JRB quilt will be filled as advertised.

My rational for accepting the weight penalty of bringing a hammock vs. just sleeping under a tarp on the ground is that although I'll carry a little extra weight, I'll have higher quality recovery time than I would sleeping on the ground.

I don't know this from experience, having never been on the AT, but I suspect that you could completely do away with the notion of sleeping on the ground on the AT. I've never heard of there being a shortage of trees there. Someone more informed may correct me on that.

[Captn]

This is what I've settled on (for now) for my PCT thru:

OES Deluxe Tarp - 11.8 oz
Speer Snugfit - 29 oz
Speer Hammock - 17 oz
Golite Ultra 20 quilt - 19 oz
Warbonnet bugnet - 7.4 oz
Z-Rest sleeping pad - 10 oz

I don't intend on mailing anything home at all. I just don't want to deal with the logistics of it. If my Snugfit is too warm I'll just vent it (undo the velcro on the sides.).

That comes out to just over 5 pounds which is hardly ultralight. It's reasonably light, considering it's a complete system which also allows me to sleep on the ground. My base weight for my pack is around 19 pounds. My gearlist (http://postholer.com/journal/viewGearlist.php?sid=d0bd7e4a238c98eae334514fdb206 aea&event_id=535).

I'm thinking that I may replace the Golite quilt with a Jacks R Better quilt. The weight difference is something like an 1 oz. and the JRB quilt will be filled as advertised.

My rational for accepting the weight penalty of bringing a hammock vs. just sleeping under a tarp on the ground is that although I'll carry a little extra weight, I'll have higher quality recovery time than I would sleeping on the ground.

I don't know this from experience, having never been on the AT, but I suspect that you could completely do away with the notion of sleeping on the ground on the AT. I've never heard of there being a shortage of trees there. Someone more informed my correct me on that.

I've only done the Georgia Section and a piece of NC, but I can tell you that those sections have NO shortage of trees ....

[Ronnwell]

This is what I've settled on (for now) for my PCT thru:

OES Deluxe Tarp - 11.8 oz
Speer Snugfit - 29 oz
Speer Hammock - 17 oz
Golite Ultra 20 quilt - 19 oz
Warbonnet bugnet - 7.4 oz
Z-Rest sleeping pad - 10 oz

I don't intend on mailing anything home at all. I just don't want to deal with the logistics of it. If my Snugfit is too warm I'll just vent it (undo the velcro on the sides.).

That comes out to just over 5 pounds which is hardly ultralight. It's reasonably light, considering it's a complete system which also allows me to sleep on the ground. My base weight for my pack is around 19 pounds. My gearlist (http://postholer.com/journal/viewGearlist.php?sid=d0bd7e4a238c98eae334514fdb206 aea&event_id=535) as it is so far.

I'm thinking that I may replace the Golite quilt with a Jacks R Better quilt. The weight difference is something like an 1 oz. and the JRB quilt will be filled as advertised.

My rational for accepting the weight penalty of bringing a hammock vs. just sleeping under a tarp on the ground is that although I'll carry a little extra weight, I'll have higher quality recovery time than I would sleeping on the ground.

I don't know this from experience, having never been on the AT, but I suspect that you could completely do away with the notion of sleeping on the ground on the AT. I've never heard of there being a shortage of trees there. Someone more informed may correct me on that.

Have you already purchased all of the gear or is this a wishlist? The only thing I would think about is a 2/3 3-season underquilt in the place of the Snugfit. 1) You'll save a pound and I don't think you'll sacrifice much in terms of warmth for low temps you'll face. I have zero PCT experience, but it seems from the journals that I have read and from threads on whiteblaze and such that 10's is the lowest you'll encounter. I would definitely research it though. I don't know if carrying that extra pound for 2000+ miles is worth the <5 nights you might need serious cold-weather gear. 2) You'll free up some space in your pack. Food is going to take up a lot of pack space (moreso on the PCT than the AT b/c of longer distances between resupply). Not sure if you have your pack picked out, but a bigger pack equals more weight.

Any way, just my two cents. I'm sure people who have completed one of the long trails will chime in. In any case, best of luck to you!!

[dejoha]

Depending on how tall you are--and your hammock comfort/needs level--you could get away with a smaller hammock and save a lot of weight.

Yet Another Gear List

Hammock - GT Nano 7 (http://www.grandtrunkgoods.com//ProdDetails.aspx?prodId=34) - 8 oz (includes suspension)
Tarp - OES MacCat Standard (http://www.outdoorequipmentsupplier.com/products.html) - 10 oz
2/3 UQ - Te-Wa (≈13 oz); Yeti (≈13 oz); Crowsnest (≈18 oz) - avg 15 oz
TQ - GoLite Ultra 20 (http://www.golite.com/Product/ProdDetail.aspx?p=SS7500&mc=181&t=&lat=) - 19 oz
Pad - Pack frame, sit/knee/ground pad (http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/nightlight_torso.html) - 4 oz
Bug Net - (summer only) AGG Equinox Mantis Sleep Net (http://www.antigravitygear.com/proddetail.php?prod=UBG300&cat=73) - 5 oz

TOTAL - ≈61 oz (≈3.8 lbs)

I am 5'10" and love the Nano. Yes, larger hammocks offer a flatter lay, but I've been enjoying my time in the hammock and it is my first choice when I'm going light. YMMV.

If you want extra insulation for cold nights, you might try some Reflectix. I've been testing a few feet of the wide Reflectix, shaped like a trapezoid to fit well in the hammock, and it has provided great warmth--especially in my shoulders--without a lot of weight and moderate bulk for packing.

[lazarus]

Depending on how tall you are--and your hammock comfort/needs level--you could get away with a smaller hammock and save a lot of weight.

Yet Another Gear List

Hammock - GT Nano 7 (http://www.grandtrunkgoods.com//ProdDetails.aspx?prodId=34) - 8 oz (includes suspension)
Tarp - OES MacCat Standard (http://www.outdoorequipmentsupplier.com/products.html) - 10 oz
2/3 UQ - Te-Wa (≈13 oz); Yeti (≈13 oz); Crowsnest (≈18 oz) - avg 15 oz
TQ - GoLite Ultra 20 (http://www.golite.com/Product/ProdDetail.aspx?p=SS7500&mc=181&t=&lat=) - 19 oz
Pad - Pack frame, sit/knee/ground pad (http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/nightlight_torso.html) - 4 oz
Bug Net - (summer only) AGG Equinox Mantis Sleep Net (http://www.antigravitygear.com/proddetail.php?prod=UBG300&cat=73) - 5 oz

TOTAL - ≈61 oz (≈3.8 lbs)

I am 5'10" and love the Nano. Yes, larger hammocks offer a flatter lay, but I've been enjoying my time in the hammock and it is my first choice when I'm going light. YMMV.

If you want extra insulation for cold nights, you might try some Reflectix. I've been testing a few feet of the wide Reflectix, shaped like a trapezoid to fit well in the hammock, and it has provided great warmth--especially in my shoulders--without a lot of weight and moderate bulk for packing.

how well does that bug net work in your hammock? i was wondering if it would be better than a head net...

[bfulton]

Depending on how tall you are--and your hammock comfort/needs level--you could get away with a smaller hammock and save a lot of weight.

Yet Another Gear List

Hammock - GT Nano 7 (http://www.grandtrunkgoods.com//ProdDetails.aspx?prodId=34) - 8 oz (includes suspension)
Tarp - OES MacCat Standard (http://www.outdoorequipmentsupplier.com/products.html) - 10 oz
2/3 UQ - Te-Wa (≈13 oz); Yeti (≈13 oz); Crowsnest (≈18 oz) - avg 15 oz
TQ - GoLite Ultra 20 (http://www.golite.com/Product/ProdDetail.aspx?p=SS7500&mc=181&t=&lat=) - 19 oz
Pad - Pack frame, sit/knee/ground pad (http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/nightlight_torso.html) - 4 oz
Bug Net - (summer only) AGG Equinox Mantis Sleep Net (http://www.antigravitygear.com/proddetail.php?prod=UBG300&cat=73) - 5 oz

TOTAL - ≈61 oz (≈3.8 lbs)

I am 5'10" and love the Nano. Yes, larger hammocks offer a flatter lay, but I've been enjoying my time in the hammock and it is my first choice when I'm going light. YMMV.

If you want extra insulation for cold nights, you might try some Reflectix. I've been testing a few feet of the wide Reflectix, shaped like a trapezoid to fit well in the hammock, and it has provided great warmth--especially in my shoulders--without a lot of weight and moderate bulk for packing.

If weight is of concern I would recommend a good headnet over a full bug net. I guess it depends on where you're at geographically, but my headnet http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ultralight_headnet.html is the best headnet I've used in both the daytime (hiking) and nighttime (sleeping).

[dejoha]

how well does that bug net work in your hammock? i was wondering if it would be better than a head net...

It works well if you have a ridgeline, which keeps the net off your head. You can also use the stake-out points to wrap a line around the back of the hammock, which helps suspend the net around your shoulders. It's certainly a minimal solution, but a step up from a head net.

I don't like wearing hats to bed, which seems to be the best way to use a head net while sleeping. I guess you could use this as head net too. Cool--I just thought of another use: hammock net, ground net, and hiking head net!

[guySmiley]

All the stuff I've got listed are already paid for.
Hey, you've got the same amount of experience on the PCT as I do!

I hear what you're saying about the Snugfit, and I've put a lot of thought into it and decided that as long as I'm still under 20#, I'm not going to cut that particular corner. If my pack weight gets any higher than that, I'll start making some tough decisions, but the Snugfit would probably be one of the last things I'd make a compromise on.



Have you already purchased all of the gear or is this a wishlist? The only thing I would think about is a 2/3 3-season underquilt in the place of the Snugfit. 1) You'll save a pound and I don't think you'll sacrifice much in terms of warmth for low temps you'll face. I have zero PCT experience, but it seems from the journals that I have read and from threads on whiteblaze and such that 10's is the lowest you'll encounter. I would definitely research it though. I don't know if carrying that extra pound for 2000+ miles is worth the <5 nights you might need serious cold-weather gear. 2) You'll free up some space in your pack. Food is going to take up a lot of pack space (moreso on the PCT than the AT b/c of longer distances between resupply). Not sure if you have your pack picked out, but a bigger pack equals more weight.

Any way, just my two cents. I'm sure people who have completed one of the long trails will chime in. In any case, best of luck to you!!

[Ronnwell]

It works well if you have a ridgeline, which keeps the net off your head. You can also use the stake-out points to wrap a line around the back of the hammock, which helps suspend the net around your shoulders. It's certainly a minimal solution, but a step up from a head net.

I don't like wearing hats to bed, which seems to be the best way to use a head net while sleeping. I guess you could use this as head net too. Cool--I just thought of another use: hammock net, ground net, and hiking head net!

If you run a line from the stake out points around the hammock, do you have any gaps? Out of curiosity, have you run lines under yourself? I wonder how that impact comfort.

I'm not a huge fan of the Speer bugnet so I'm on the lookout for a lightweight bugnet solution. I agree with your point about wearing a hat for the headnet. I may go with Warbonnet's travel net (http://www.warbonnetoutdoors.net/travel_h.htm). Its 3 ozs heavier, but I like that its fully enclosed. I'll take a 3oz weight penalty for the peace of mind that a spider isn't setting up shop in my hammy.

[Ronnwell]

All the stuff I've got listed are already paid for.
Hey, you've got the same amount of experience on the PCT as I do!

I hear what you're saying about the Snugfit, and I've put a lot of thought into it and decided that as long as I'm still under 20#, I'm not going to cut that particular corner. If my pack weight gets any higher than that, I'll start making some tough decisions, but the Snugfit would probably be one of the last things I'd make a compromise on.

Good stuff Guy. There's a lot to be said about what works for you and what you're comfortable with. Looking forward to hear how everything works out.

[guySmiley]

I have the traveller bugnet, and I have no complaints. The only thing I can see that can really be improved with it is the zipper. If it was a big U shape descending from and then returning to the top, it could be flipped over the ridgeline. That would make it slightly easier to get in, and to do tasks without getting out of the hammock. Of course that would increase the weight, so I'm not certain that it would be an improvement that is worth having.

[dejoha]

Its 3 ozs heavier, but I like that its fully enclosed. I'll take a 3oz weight penalty for the peace of mind that a spider isn't setting up shop in my hammy.

I'll submit a photo soon showing the bug net hanging from a ridgeline, but it may be a while for me to get out -- it just snowed a few feet here in Flagstaff!

I made a fully enclosed bug net last year out of a Mombasa Outback Travel Net - Single, from REI (http://www.rei.com/product/729006). I just cut the top of and sewed it into a tube with a cinch draw cord on each end. Worked great for $12.

The only time I've had bug problems was when I left my hammock set up for over a week in my back yard: tons of earwigs making a nest in my tree hugger straps, spiders making webs in between the guy lines, and other crawlers investigating the fabric folds. I've never had a problem with bugs when I set up and take down each day.

[Ronnwell]

I'll submit a photo soon showing the bug net hanging from a ridgeline, but it may be a while for me to get out -- it just snowed a few feet here in Flagstaff!

I made a fully enclosed bug net last year out of a Mombasa Outback Travel Net - Single, from REI (http://www.rei.com/product/729006). I just cut the top of and sewed it into a tube with a cinch draw cord on each end. Worked great for $12.

The only time I've had bug problems was when I left my hammock set up for over a week in my back yard: tons of earwigs making a nest in my tree hugger straps, spiders making webs in between the guy lines, and other crawlers investigating the fabric folds. I've never had a problem with bugs when I set up and take down each day.

I like it! Thanks for posting that.

[sandykayak]

Why have a bugnet that doesn't keep out no see 'ums?

<<Please note: this net does not keep biting midges (no-see-ums) out>>


That said, I have a Treklight double and several yards of no see 'um mesh in black. Can anyone point me to dimensions for making a bugnet? Point taken from the poster who said a U-shaped zipper would allow for the flap to be flipped over.

sandy in miami

[guySmiley]

Which bugnet are you referring to that doesn't keep out noseeum's?

[sandykayak]

Sorry, I was replying to the previous post by dehoja:

<<I made a fully enclosed bug net last year out of a Mombasa Outback Travel Net - Single, from REI. I just cut the top of and sewed it into a tube with a cinch draw cord on each end. Worked great for $12.>

It's not no see 'um.

BTW, I "found" the whole section on the forums about bugnets. Lots of options and suggestions.

sandy in miami

[dejoha]

Sorry, I was replying to the previous post by dehoja:

<<I made a fully enclosed bug net last year out of a Mombasa Outback Travel Net - Single, from REI. I just cut the top of and sewed it into a tube with a cinch draw cord on each end. Worked great for $12.>

It's not no see 'um.

YMMV. I've never had a problem with no-see-ums, but some areas are worse than others.

[idester]

Cuben will certainly help you drop weight. I've got my WBBB, a cuben tarp, a cuben UQ and a cuben TQ. This will take me to 20 without down clothes, even lower if I'm wearing a down jacket. I've got a custom cuben tarp on order that will have 'wings' that I can use to close off each end for nasty weather. Can't wait to get it!

[Just Jeff]

You wear a down jacket inside a vapor barrier? Seems like it would get wet from body moisture. Have you tried weighing it before bed, then first thing in the morning to see how much moisture it has collected overnight?

[sandykayak]

Has anyone tried Gossamer Gear's wide thinlight pad in a double hammock?

Approx 8 oz. Not sure how much it insulates in really cold weather.

http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/thinlight.html?id=oakUFpx9:75.74.71.36