View Full Version : Gear Selection: Old School vs. New School...
Kankujoe
09-20-2009, 16:36
I have been bicycling camping, tent camping. hiking, kayak/canoe camping (and yes, trailer/teardrop camping) for almost 50 years since I was a kid. Even with all this other experience I am new to hammock camping & lite weight backpacking. Most of my experience has been Old School when weight was rarely a major factor, you bought quality, rugged equipment that would take abuse and last, and you were not as concerned with going lite weight verses camping/exploring in comfort. Definately not going to the point of counting grams/ounces...
My heros have always been "Lewis & Clark" and their "Corps of Discovery." What a camping/backpacking/canoe trip! This expedition carried/moved tons of supplies & equipment on their 2-3 year camping trip.
Today it seems that most of the New School wisdom is to carry as little weight and stuff as possible. I can see some benefit to this mindset for long-distance - long-term adventures but what about comfort/utility during these adventures? Most of my adventures are by necessity "mini-adventures" since I have to maintain my employment & family life. If I lug something heavy it is usually only for a weekend and not six months or so.
So where is the trade-off? At what point is the New School really wisdom and the Old School not wisdom?
As an example, one of my favorite pursuits is cycling... it can get really ridiculous & expensive in a hurry... I've seen men like me (who carry 15-25 pounds in extra weight around our bellies) debate spending hundreds of dollars more on bicycles & equipment to shave off a few ounces or a pound. Seems rather foolish when you could/should drop a few pounds off your body instead of worrying about a few ounces on a bicycle... Of course this translates to almost all outdoor pursuits today...
So back to hammock camping... where's the trade off? Comfort vs. weight? I like my gadgets & gizmos... I like fiddling with things on the trail & in camp... I like a clean pair of socks & underwear... I'd prefer to have an axe or stout knife with me verses cutting firewood with toenail clippers...
I'd also like to hear the opinions & experience of those on this forum about this Old School vs. New School debate...
Lewis & Clark would have loved the light weight gear we have now.
I, too, grew up camping. On my first backpacking trip I carried over 40 lbs (and I was barely 100 lbs myself). Now I try to stay around 25lbs. That is enough to allow a few extras, but not so much that my back and shoulders scream. My hammock weighs a little more than my tarptent, but is much more comfortable. I don't have many gadgets or gizmos, and I don't take an "ax or stout knife", just a tiny little one. It's a careful balance.
warbonnetguy
09-20-2009, 17:04
alot of folks feel the same way, carry what you want or what you're comfortable carrying (comfort weight). with advances in technology, you can save weight without giving up the comforts. shelters are now lighter, not much tradeoff there. the same could be said about lots of camping items. you don't have to leave certain things behind, but if you want to buy new ones you have the option of getting much lighter versions that often have just as much utility if not more.
common backpacker packweights of today are easily 20 lbs. lighter than they were 15 years ago while carrying roughly the same type items, that's a big difference even if you are just hiking on the weekend. if you're canoe camping without portages, or car camping, weight may not even be an issue, but today's gear is often better in other ways as well, like better comfort, new features, etc...
tight-wad
09-20-2009, 17:23
I gave up on the ultralight philosophy when I decided that warm, dry camp clothes at the end of the day are a priority for me. Since then, I've tried to shave the weights of the things I take, but some things, like a couple of different maps and copies of guidebook pages for reading, will always be with me.
Amen brother about the extra weight around the belly button. When I realized that, according to the gov't definition, I was border line obese, I started to focus more on ME instead of what was on my back. I did manage to shed a "whole pack" of weight, and that makes so much more difference than shaving off the grams from your toothbrush and spoon....
I too have been relegated to taking "mini" trips most of the time and this makes the weight of what I carry even that much more important IMO.
One of the biggest reasons I hike is because I want to see things I can't see from the road (car camp site). The less (weight) I carry the more distance I can cover in a given amount of time, and when I only have one day out and one day back this makes a huge difference.
Food for thought: I've read somewhere (I would post a link if I remembered where) that a scout group once covered a certain distance in a certain time. They then cut they're pack weight in half and hiked for the same amout of time. Now I would have expected that the distance they covered would have doubled, but they reported covering THREE TIMES the amount of ground!
Needless to say this not only got me excited, but also got me looking to drop any unnecessary/redundant weight.
Slopes :)
Roadtorque
09-20-2009, 17:47
I am one who definitely thinks a overweight gram weenie is ironic, and stupid. I always take comfort and luxury over weight. I figure if the pack is heavy I will just be in better shape when I get home. I tend to think being a gram weenie is more a hobby than a need. I think a lot of them find it a challenge to get their pack weights down. I'm probably wrong with that process but that's how I translate their actions. To me, being in the woods is all about having a good time and I'm going to pack what I want to have a good time. The other part for me is money, I just cant see spending a lot more money on a piece of gear that will fall apart faster just to save a pound. I like robust, long lasting gear
Ramblinrev
09-20-2009, 18:16
I grew up canoe camping with canvas tents and a 20 X 30 canvas tarp fly. Trust me when I say that from those olden days... I am a gram weenie. By modern standards I still buy quality gear that I don't have to baby. I fall enough that I don't want to have to worry about my pack ripping. But within those boundaries I like the modern stuff. And I love my hammock.
I grew up canoe camping with canvas tents and a 20 X 30 canvas tarp fly. Trust me when I say that from those olden days... I am a gram weenie. By modern standards I still buy quality gear that I don't have to baby. I fall enough that I don't want to have to worry about my pack ripping. But within those boundaries I like the modern stuff. And I love my hammock.
I'm with the Rev on this, but don't have the same need.
I refuse to pay mucho $$$ for gear that will probably not last until I get home and pay high prices simply to save a few oz.
By the same token I will pay mucho $$$ for high quality gear that will last long enough for me to bequeath to whomever wants it after I can no longer walk. If I can save a few oz in the bargain, then I'm willing to go even a few more $$$.
I'm finding more and more that I have to go the DIY route to get both the quality and durability I demand. My tool and sewing skills are not the equal of the professionals like The Jack's have sewing their tarps, but what my DIY gear lacks in finish and polish, it has in durability.
The UL and SUL trend is great and I'll certainly benefit where I can, but I feel it has also degraded the durability aspect.
Cannibal
09-20-2009, 19:31
I love the old school, but if the new school does the same thing at a third of the weight I see no reason to not update. It does depend a lot on the trip for some items, like a hatchet or stout knife. I'm just not going to carry them several hundred miles along established trails; plenty of breakable wood on the ground. If I was going to a very remote area, then sure that's another story. Deep winter camping, I carry much more weight because I often include something I can chop wood with if the need arises.
I could lose my pack weight twice around the belly and probably should while I still can. However, I don't see a reason to not save weight directly out of my pack if I can do so without making any unreasonable sacrifice. I don't tolerate not being comfortable.
BTW, that cutting firewood with toenail clippers line is still making me giggle. I gotta remember that one.:lol:
Honestly, I don't see why lightweight backpacking and comfort are mutually exclusive. Once I setup camp, I'm as comfortable now (carrying 15 pounds on my back) as I was carrying 45 pounds. My equipment is lighter now but I also found I carried a bunch of stuff I really didn't need or use. It took several years of experimentation and many trips to find the right combination for me. If a person is happy with the weight they are carrying, I don't think anyone is trying to convince them otherwise. HYOH.
Ultra-lightweight backpacking can also be a challenge. Just like someone might see how fast they can do a marathon or a thru-hike, a person might also want to push themselves to see how minimalistic they can hike a particular trail. If I were ever to do that, it would be for my own personal satisfaction that I could. I don't expect I'd be doing it on a regular basis. Comfort is still too important to me.
I love the old school...
BTW, that cutting firewood with toenail clippers line is still making me giggle. I gotta remember that one.:lol:
Don't forget that in "A Walk in the Woods", Katz deemed toenail clippers as a multi-purpose item. They doubled as bear protection! :laugh: I figure they're multi-purpose anyway - I use them not only for clippin' toenails... but also for fingernails. ;)
Count me a gram weenie. I pack titanium toenail clippers. :laugh:
Seriously though, I'm no weenie. To me it's about balance. The person sleeping on the ground under just a tarp or poncho has given up comfort for weight savings. I'd rather settle in on gear that doesn't burden me with unnecessary weight but still provides convenience and comfort.
For example, many aluminum cook sets off a nice balance between price and weight, tipping the scales less then steel but leaving more money in the wallet then Ti.
To each his own.
ikemouser
09-20-2009, 22:02
Speaking of titanium, i ben t my titanium stakes, does anyone know how to bend them back, maybe with heat + vice?
climberslacker
09-20-2009, 22:14
I am only a gram weenie because im a gear Wh*re and because, it is a challenge for me, and just like red hat, my first trip, when I was 12, and probably about 100 lbs, i probably had at least a 40 pound pack. I had to have an older scout help me put my stuff on. Now im helping kids out in my troop who go through the same process, and it is a process.
just my 2 pennies
-CS
... I'd rather settle in on gear that doesn't burden me with unnecessary weight but still provides convenience and comfort.
... and once a person starts to focus on this, they MIGHT become a gram weenie. :lol:
On a hitch hiking/walking trip of Europe in the '60's, I carried one of those old Kelty packs that about owned the American walking world in those days. Inside I carried a sports coat/slacks/leather shoes, dress shirt and tie, along with the normal stuff you need to live in hostels or camp, both of which I did. Carried a SVEA...which I still have and use. Guess that would be old school packing. I don't feel the need for a tie so often these days...
Kankujoe
09-20-2009, 23:45
Thanks for all the replies... I'm really more in the middle about weight vs. comfort continuum... to me, its more about having good, stout, quality gear... and believe me, my gear closet (actually most of my garage & basement) is full of enough equipment to outfit a small army...
For any given "adventure" my equipment choices are based on my mode of transportation... ie. hiking, bicycling, kayaking, car, trailer etc... each mode has a different mix of equipment choices & combinations... but I am by no means a "gram weenie" & nor do I carry everything including the kitchen sink. I opt to buy some of my equipment for it's wear value, I also like multiuse equipment to a point but not if it is a compromise for it's intended use.
I probably carry way too much stuff but I like to live & travel by the old scout motto "be prepared."
MedicineMan
09-21-2009, 00:35
just think, most of the ultralightweight phenom came from hiking on GROOMED trails and from point to piont to point to point. Like the AT, the PCT and others. On these trails gear can be babied way up to a point.
Lewis/Clarke probably did a lot more bushwacking which would kill todays gramweenie gear.
I've embraced one thing from the past ==wool, even though Smartwool is probably modernized wool.
As far as weight I've gone the gamut and am actually carrying the heaviest pack now in over 36 years...3.2 pounds for the pack alone. I've decided it's not so much the weight of the pack but what I put in it.
I do my share of bushwhacking/bushcrafting too but then it's a totally different goal and gear choice. The breathable Mountain Hardware gets subbed out with an Empire Canvas Works Long Field Coat; the GG pack gets subbed out with a Snugpak Sleaka and even more rudimentary gear than what I'd use on the groomed trails but gear that is to be used to craft/build and for a place I plan to stay at for a while.
The hammock can and is used in both of these worlds but for a long term bushcraft experience I realize the lightweight hammocks for backpacking are quite ephemeral :)
Kankujoe
09-21-2009, 00:46
just think, most of the ultralightweight phenom came from hiking on GROOMED trails and from point to piont to point to point. Like the AT, the PCT and others. On these trails gear can be babied way up to a point.
Lewis/Clarke probably did a lot more bushwacking which would kill todays gramweenie gear.
I've embraced one thing from the past ==wool, even though Smartwool is probably modernized wool.
As far as weight I've gone the gamut and am actually carrying the heaviest pack now in over 36 years...3.2 pounds for the pack alone. I've decided it's not so much the weight of the pack but what I put in it.
I do my share of bushwhacking/bushcrafting too but then it's a totally different goal and gear choice. The breathable Mountain Hardware gets subbed out with an Empire Canvas Works Long Field Coat; the GG pack gets subbed out with a Snugpak Sleaka and even more rudimentary gear than what I'd use on the groomed trails but gear that is to be used to craft/build and for a place I plan to stay at for a while.
The hammock can and is used in both of these worlds but for a long term bushcraft experience I realize the lightweight hammocks for backpacking are quite ephemeral :)
You've made a very important observation....
But now the question... Which gear should be bulletproof regardless of weight & Which gear can be lite weight without compromising function/comfort?
TinaLouise
09-21-2009, 08:14
You've made a very important observation....
But now the question... Which gear should be bulletproof regardless of weight & Which gear can be lite weight without compromising function/comfort?
very good question!!
I went through those thoughts and choices when I changed from tarp-tent (about a pound and a half) to hammocks (clark w/tarp probably close to 4 pounds) and when I went from a GG vapor ki pack (2 pounds) to an Aarn pack (close to 4 pounds).
My clark and the aarn pack are both more bulletproof than the tarp-tent and the GG pack. Plus they almost double my weight that I carry. But what I've found in the field actually carrying them and using the hammock is that I'm way happier with the weight on my back and in the mornings I'm pain free!! I'm still testing everything that goes inside my pack, if it doesn't get used on a trip, desicions have to be made on the next trip of if I really need to carry that item. To me, bulletproof means an item is gonna work everytime I use it. I use the pack and some kind of sleeping system on every trip and I don't want them to fail. I also use a pepsi can stove, it's not bulletproof in that it can be crushed. So I take pains to make sure it's protected. But in using it, it's never not worked, so sort of bulletproof (crushable but works all the time & very light wieght). Compromises have to be addressed in whatever gear you carry. And you need to know what kind of issues you personally have. For example, I like my hammock to be more bulletproof, I just tend to feel "safer" in it and that tends to cause me to fall asleep, well at the speed of a bullet!!:rolleyes: Is it just my "perception" of safety, well maybe?? Every person has to make the choices of what they will carry, what to them has to be bulletproof and what they could live without if it were to fail. This is my main reason for do so much testing with my hammock & quilts.
TinaLouise
my clark weight also included an UQ, I guess my tarp-tent weight could also be upped if I added my treking poles and a hu-mong-gusly thick sleeping pad that I had to have just to be able to sleep in it!!!
Lewis/Clarke probably did a lot more bushwacking which would kill todays gramweenie gear.
Now admittedly, I've not done anything close to Lewis/Clarke. But I do think today's gear is surprisingly robust. I bushwhack a lot in the Superstition wilderness east of Phoenix. Just about every plant in the desert has stickers. I trudge through catclaw, scrub oak, manzanita, etc. After a day of hiking, my arms and legs will look like I've been whipped with a cat-o-ninetails, but my backpack survives just fine. I'll take my 70denier ripstop GG pack instead of the 30denier. But that's the only thing I do different. I've thought about getting the 210denier GG Gorilla for additionaly margin ... but even then, it's only a 1.5pound backpack.
If a person feels better about using heavier, more conventional gear, I'm not going to try to talk them out of it. HYOH.
Is it just my "perception" of safety, well maybe??
I think this is a good point. A number things I do is based on "perception". I prefer a hammock with a bugnet instead of one without (even though it would save me a few ounces). My "perception" is I feel safer (I know, I know laugh on ... ). Perception is reality.
But now the question... Which gear should be bulletproof regardless of weight & Which gear can be lite weight without compromising function/comfort?
My response would be: The more protected the gear, the less "bulletproof" it needs to be. The backpack is the most exposed. I think it needs to be bulletproof (to the wearer's definition). My titanium pot is in my pack and by golly, it's titanium ... so I don't need to think about it. I wouldn't want a mylar tarp but 210denier nylon would be overkill (IMO). I guess the definition of "bulletproof" for a hammock would depend on how & where a person uses them. If I were constantly having to go to the ground, my definition might change.
I'm still experimenting with water filtration devices. I've had my sweetwater break in the field (twice), my frontier pro clog, chemicals are slow but reliable, boiling water is reliable but uses up fuel and takes time .... I'm playing with a Seripen now. So far, so good. But who knows what I'll be using next year ... trying to find the best compromise between function and comfort (in my case, comfort = weight).
Good thread.
Kankujoe
09-21-2009, 14:05
This is a great thread with great responses!!
It's great to hear from the people out there doing the adventures... what works, what doesn't and why...
It's easy getting caught in "the next best thing," I'd like to know what has done well over time and is still doing well...
Some great responses!:)
For me, it's not an issue of Old School vs. New School. I have certain criteria I follow when selecting and using gear, but it is a delicate balancing act. Here's the "prioritized factors" I follow when selecting and using gear (in no particular order)...
1.) packability
2.) versatility
3.) reliability
4.) convenience
5.) weight
When selecting a piece of gear, it gets evaluated on each of these points. I don't use a set particular order, since different activities have different priorities. Most of my time spent outdoors is either kayaking or day hiking...two different activities with different needs. Kayaking affords me the ability to pack a bit heavier than if I were actually carrying the gear on my back, so the priority order would change accordingly. When day hiking, my priority needs change a bit and I go lighter. Sometimes, time-tested gear that's bombproof is what I need. Other times, it's "New School", cobweb-thin and light-as-a-feather stuff that I haul around.
I first discovered these principals from an article found here (http://roguepaddler.com/thinfish.htm). It's a good read. Mainly geared towards paddling, but like I said you can change the order of the priorities to suit your particular hobbies and/or personal requirements. (Yes, I'm the one who contributed my picture/breakdown of my summer loadout found at the bottom of the article. My set-up is a bit different now, though.)
My response would be: The more protected the gear, the less "bulletproof" it needs to be. The backpack is the most exposed. I think it needs to be bulletproof (to the wearer's definition).
Well there are 2 things that are the most exposed: Backpack and clothes (I include shoes with the clothes).
It's kind of scary to think of emerging from the woods in your birthday suit (or close to it) simply because all of your clothes were so badly ripped that they were no longer usable.
The backpack survived so maybe it would be possible to rig it to wear it. :lol:
I still remember the silnylon poncho that kept me drenched with sweat and I was really glad when it was so badly shredded that it let in a cooling breeze. Felt better getting wet from the rain than the sweat. I think it lasted all of 2 hours.
It's kind of scary to think of emerging from the woods in your birthday suit (or close to it) simply because all of your clothes were so badly ripped that they were no longer usable.
That's why I wear this:
Pastorus
09-21-2009, 20:13
This really is a great thread, and I like how Dan protects his birthday suit.
I have to say that I am so disappointed. I had my toenails surgically removed just so I didn't have to bring toenail clippers and now I find out that you can cut wood with them.:mad:
Well, back to the OP's question ...
There are only a couple of things I will not skimp on, no matter what the weight.
1) A good night's sleep. I probably spent the most money and tried the greatest number of sleeping pads and combination of pads to achieve this in a tent. Thank heaven for this forum, now I get a great night's sleep, with little change in my base weight. I can honestly say I sleep as well on a backpacking trip as I do at home (since I sleep in a hammock at home).
2) Warmth. This is an item where weight and item selection is not mutually exclusive. In terms of weight to warmth ratio, down is the best. I use down quilts, I bring along a down vest, I have a down JRB hood. I do not like being cold! I will add weight if I need to in order to be warm. I'm all set to spring for warmer UQ if my experimentation this winter suggest I need one. I'm fortunate I live in an area where moisture is of little concern. If rain is in the forecast, I pack accordingly ... then it won't rain for sure.
3) Evening entertainment. Since I normally hike solo, the evening can be kind of boring. So I bring my iTouch & earplugs (5oz) so I can watch a movie, listen to music, read a book or play bejeweled.
I go for lightweight in about every other category ... at least by my definition. For instance I don't cook in a Heineken can (yet). I don't mind eating from a ziplock. I use an alcohol stove. I have a cold breakfast with coffee (to save fuel weight). My "emergency" kit is 4oz. If I have a camp fire, I'll break sticks instead of bring my toenail clippers. Everyone's list of must have's will probably be different.
Hawk-eye
09-21-2009, 21:07
Of course I'm an old fart ... but I can remember switching from a canvas pup tent to a canvas miner's tent to save weight! Then switching to a canvas tarp to get even lighter. I also remember my last canvas frame pack ... while it's nice to think back on ... wouldn't want to go backwards. That stuff is heavy! And when it rains ... it's heavier!
Did I mention I love my HH and will only go to ground if forced too? ;) Light weight tent or not!
MedicineMan
09-21-2009, 22:44
bullet proof? nothing you can buy; a stout bushcraft knife like the Skookum Bushtool is bullet proof until you break it! but the ability to make a knife.....
and a bushwacking test for a pack is falling down a scree slope with the pack on, riding the pack with your body weight until you stop...typical run ins with chola or banging against limbs is not a test for instant durability but is for long term...and that is the next question eh? how many times can it withstand the abuse.
It's all about playing the odds. I'm careful, avoid slamming the pack down, cautious about where I hang....and one mouse hops in the pack for a ride at a brief shelter stop :)
I have been bicycling camping, tent camping. hiking, kayak/canoe camping (and yes, trailer/teardrop camping) for almost 50 years since I was a kid. Even with all this other experience I am new to hammock camping & lite weight backpacking. Most of my experience has been Old School when weight was rarely a major factor, you bought quality, rugged equipment that would take abuse and last, and you were not as concerned with going lite weight verses camping/exploring in comfort. Definately not going to the point of counting grams/ounces...
My heros have always been "Lewis & Clark" and their "Corps of Discovery." What a camping/backpacking/canoe trip! This expedition carried/moved tons of supplies & equipment on their 2-3 year camping trip.
Today it seems that most of the New School wisdom is to carry as little weight and stuff as possible. I can see some benefit to this mindset for long-distance - long-term adventures but what about comfort/utility during these adventures? Most of my adventures are by necessity "mini-adventures" since I have to maintain my employment & family life. If I lug something heavy it is usually only for a weekend and not six months or so.
So where is the trade-off? At what point is the New School really wisdom and the Old School not wisdom?
As an example, one of my favorite pursuits is cycling... it can get really ridiculous & expensive in a hurry... I've seen men like me (who carry 15-25 pounds in extra weight around our bellies) debate spending hundreds of dollars more on bicycles & equipment to shave off a few ounces or a pound. Seems rather foolish when you could/should drop a few pounds off your body instead of worrying about a few ounces on a bicycle... Of course this translates to almost all outdoor pursuits today...
So back to hammock camping... where's the trade off? Comfort vs. weight? I like my gadgets & gizmos... I like fiddling with things on the trail & in camp... I like a clean pair of socks & underwear... I'd prefer to have an axe or stout knife with me verses cutting firewood with toenail clippers...
I'd also like to hear the opinions & experience of those on this forum about this Old School vs. New School debate...
For me I shed pack weight in one way to add fun stuff. My pack seems to always weigh in around 30 lbs. If it is a short trip I load up on the fun stuff.
I do a lot of traveling for work and have a couple big fun trips in the works. For me it's about simplicity. The less stuff I have, the less I have to keep track of, the less I have to carry around, the more moble I am. Everything becomes easier. It's way easier to 2 bags I can carry easily up stairs and across town, than 4 or 5 that I need to make multiple trips. Not really camping related, but the same theory.
Triggerhpy
09-22-2009, 00:38
Yep I'm an old fart too. I have issues with gear failure. I don't like down because of the extra care to keep it dry and the storage. I can't use lil' wood stoves because of the fire danger (SoCal) alky and white gas are almost as bad. Water is harder to find so we have to carry extra (6 llitres for San G ) I've left my tent at home with the maglite. Traded the Lg sierra cup for an Orikaso cup. So there is a place for light weight gear in my pack.
I will keep looking for new/better light weight gear that fits my needs/budget.
UL works for some people but not for me.
pegleg56
09-22-2009, 05:53
This is a great thread with lots of ideas and information. Reading this brings to mind the old adage ... " the lighter my pack the more I enjoy hiking, the heavier my pack the more I enjoy camping".
If you can hike all day with a 40 - 50# pack and enjoy yourself, go for it. I hike with a nephew that can do this, and I hate him. I used to be able to do this, but with age and physical conditioning being what it is now, there is no way. As a lot of posts have stated, the gear today serves the same purpose as the gear of yesterday, only much lighter and sometimes multi-purpose. I hike to enjoy myself and my surroundings, and I couldn't do that with a 50# pack. So if I can find a piece of gear that provides the comfort and utility, and weighs less then what I am currently carrying, I'm going for it.
As for hammocking, this was a comfort decission for me. My tarptent weighs less then my hammock and tarp, but is not anywhere close to being as comfortable. And a good (excuse me ...."great") nights sleep is worth the extra ounces in my pack. It also provides a comfortable place to sit, and just looks cool.
So, getting back to the question of "Old School vs. New School" ...... it's not that we have lost anything in the way of the experience, but that the new and lighter products are enabling us to enjoy it more and maybe longer. I hope to be on the trail into my seventies and possibly eighties.
So, getting back to the question of "Old School vs. New School" ...... it's not that we have lost anything in the way of the experience, but that the new and lighter products are enabling us to enjoy it more and maybe longer. I hope to be on the trail into my seventies and possibly eighties.
UL has given me that same hope ... to hike at least into my seventies. I enyoy the "hiking" much more now.
I choose my gear based on a realistic view of what may happen to me out in the wilderness, not a worst case scenario. I'm sure there's always a slight chance that I'll regret it, but I'm willing to take that chance.
In 10 years what we do now willl be considered old school. We are just ahead of I time for being retro.
Cannibal
09-22-2009, 09:27
In 10 years what we do now willl be considered old school. We are just ahead of I time for being retro.
Ah man! What's the average cost to save an ounce these days, like $70 or something? In the future, are grams gonna cost a Benjamin or a grand? I don't like the sound of this 'retro' thing. Best to leave that to disco. :scared::scared::scared:
Ah man! What's the average cost to save an ounce these days, like $70 or something? In the future, are grams gonna cost a Benjamin or a grand? I don't like the sound of this 'retro' thing. Best to leave that to disco. :scared::scared::scared:
And how I love to dance.:shades:
Perkolady
09-22-2009, 14:07
For me, I think age and experience play a great part in my gear 'evolution'.
I started with the old-school stuff, and youth allowed me to carry it without too much notice. A lot has changed in 30 years though. :)
As I replace gear, I admit I pay particular attention to the weight, yet I also want function to be there.
I figure if I can find something that serves the same function for a little less weight, why not try it out?
On the other hand, I carry more clothing than many people. I get cold easily and I'm not cutting corners by wearing a thong or some such thing! :laugh:
I LIKE my insulated mug and my pillow and other things that cause me to be exempt from the UL club.
I think one important thing to consider is how hard we are on our gear. While some can get along just fine with a 'delicate' pack for example, many people do better with more durable gear that weighs accordingly.
Either way, we each have to carry our own loads, and what ultimately matters is that we have what we need and want to enjoy our trip.
Kankujoe
09-26-2009, 20:07
Some great responses!:)
For me, it's not an issue of Old School vs. New School. I have certain criteria I follow when selecting and using gear, but it is a delicate balancing act. Here's the "prioritized factors" I follow when selecting and using gear (in no particular order)...
1.) packability
2.) versatility
3.) reliability
4.) convenience
5.) weight
I first discovered these principals from an article found here (http://roguepaddler.com/thinfish.htm). It's a good read. Mainly geared towards paddling, but like I said you can change the order of the priorities to suit your particular hobbies and/or personal requirements. (Yes, I'm the one who contributed my picture/breakdown of my summer loadout found at the bottom of the article. My set-up is a bit different now, though.)
Thanks for posting the info & link to roguepaddler.com!!! Lots of good info that I can use for my kayaking adventures & adapt to my bicycle adventures...
sir_n0thing
09-26-2009, 21:59
To me, being in the woods is all about having a good time and I'm going to pack what I want to have a good time.
Amen, brother!
Any attempt to save weight for me at this point simply boils down to trying to alleviate a bit of stress on my back injury. Beyond that however, I'll take what I feel I want or need to be comfy and enjoying myself out in the woods! :D
sir_n0thing
Like pegleg56 said
" the lighter my pack the more I enjoy hiking, the heavier my pack the more I enjoy camping".
riverkeeper
09-27-2009, 03:01
New School is Really Really Old School.
If you do not believe this, you haven't made contact with:
Nessmuk's Woodcraft from the 1870's-80's,
Walt Whitman's late 1800's travels,
Earl Shaffer's first thru trip in 1948, Walking With Spring,
and Grandma Gatewood of the 1950's to 60's.
Wiki and Amazon suggested.
oldgringo
09-27-2009, 06:38
As I sit here making a mental list of the things that are important to me...things I'm unwilling to compromise on...it's clear that I'm a poor candidate for induction into the society of gram weenies.
For instance, there's coffee, and I don't mean some pallid freeze-dried approximation of realdeal perked coffee. The pot goes with me. Always. Ditto the mug. A bit of whiskey to sweeten the brew ain't no bad thing, either.;)
Gotta be warm. And dry. Gotta sleep well. I love the fact that with a hammock, I'm only a couple of minutes from a nap.:)
OTOH, I can run for awhile w/o much in the way of food, and it doesn't seem to bother me much.
Sorry for the ramble...it's a recent thang...olde phartes will be olde phartes, doncha know?
MacEntyre
09-27-2009, 07:19
A one cup coffee press weighing 6.5 oz;
Several coffee doses individually wrapped in the corner of a baggie and cut off;
A cup of your choice.
These things don't weigh much. Coffee is necessary, like warm, dry, and sleep. It's an American camping tradition from the 1800s.
- MacEntyre
Hawk-eye
09-27-2009, 07:34
... A bit of whiskey to sweeten the brew ain't no bad thing, either.;)
hmmm ... I've always found that Bailey's makes a wonderful coffee creamer! I'm just saying ... one old fart to another ;)
TinaLouise
09-27-2009, 07:38
now if they could just make a dehydrated version of Bailey's, I'd be set!!!
Hawk-eye
09-27-2009, 08:00
now if they could just make a dehydrated version of Bailey's, I'd be set!!!
But ... some things are worth a few ounces! You know ... in case of snake bite! ;)
gcalhoun
09-27-2009, 08:45
One thing good about getting older, you learn to get your priorities straight.
Everclear ... it's multi-purpose.
- it's an alcohol stove fuel
- it's a disinfectant
- it's a beverage (maybe debatable :scared:)
Coffee is necessary, like warm, dry, and sleep. ...
Indeed!!!
Ya know, cowboy coffee ain't half bad if'n ya don't mind filtering a few grounds with yer teeth!
oldgringo
09-27-2009, 09:09
Indeed!!!
Ya know, cowboy coffee ain't half bad if'n ya don't mind filtering a few grounds with yer teeth!
You know, I think those little Folgers singles show promise. The idea is a champ, if only Folgers weren't such bloody awful coffee.
Hawk-eye
09-27-2009, 09:09
Everclear ... it's multi-purpose.
- it's an alcohol stove fuel
- it's a disinfectant
- it's a beverage (maybe debatable :scared:)
Actually it's my fuel of choice for my alky stoves ... expensive but after reading the additives in the other options ... it's worth it to me not to breath them.
Beverage though ... nawh ... last time I used it for that was college and a party that made PJ and I don't remember much after getting there!
Oh and I graduated college back in 77!
MacEntyre
09-27-2009, 09:15
You know, I think those little Folgers singles show promise.
I have experimented with them extensively, and can report that the best procedure is:
wet the bag with piping hot water before pouring
make sure you pour piping hot water into the cup, right from the boiling pot
do not allow it to sit for more than 2 minutes; I remove the bag after 1 minute
Then, you will be pleasantly surprised at that cup of Folgers coffee.
- MacEntyre
You know, I think those little Folgers singles show promise. The idea is a champ, if only Folgers weren't such bloody awful coffee.
I hear you. :) But I'm more a junkie than a coffee snob. I buy whatever dark roast is on sale. :scared: Folgers 'Black Silk' at the moment.:laugh:
I did the cowboy coffee thing one morning when I awoke to a power outage. My daughter loved it, and that was with Folgers. :boggle:
I heard of one approach that I believe was attributed to the Mexican community -- you use cotton cloth (a sock?) to make the equivalent of a reusable teabag. Now that I think of it, I may give that a try after I finish this present cup. :D
For me ...... Medaglia D'oro instant espresso. We call it "poop coffee" cause after a cup ...... well ...... off ye' go. Black, dark and strong ... the coffee that is.
I put a strong dose in a baggie with twist tie and I have my super-strong serving ready to go. Cannot go without it!
Super Strength Shug
oldgringo
09-27-2009, 10:38
I have experimented with them extensively, and can report that the best procedure is:
wet the bag with piping hot water before pouring
make sure you pour piping hot water into the cup, right from the boiling pot
do not allow it to sit for more than 2 minutes; I remove the bag after 1 minute
Then, you will be pleasantly surprised at that cup of Folgers coffee.
- MacEntyre
I'm off to town, in a bit. I'll pick some up, and try your method.
Frawg, I'm not sure if I'm a snob...certainly my Scotch-Irish blood doesn't allow for $2/cup coffee. What I do like is coffee and chicory from the Cafe du Monde in NOLA. I order it by the case, ~$5/can.
MacEntyre
09-27-2009, 12:02
I've been pleased with Don Pablo from Cosco.
- MacEntyre
I use a single serving plastic yogurt cup as a drip coffee maker. Punch small hole in bottom, put cut down filter in, grounds, set on top of two sticks on top of cup. Light, reliable, and free.
TinaLouise
09-28-2009, 08:57
I like my hot cup of french press coffee in the morning!! Like someone else mentioned, it get's me going!!! Still, I'm always looking for other ideas rather than having to pack my french press!! Soooo, my last trip I tried something called "On the Go" by GF International. It's instant coffee and each pkg makes about a 6oz cup. Wasn't bad!! And really fast, just boiled water with my pepsi can stove & pot, poured water into my coffee cup and used the rest for my oatmeal. This coffee is like a dessert though, if you want your coffee black, this is not the one to use.
jesusfreak
09-28-2009, 09:20
i agree with you, if the mountain men did it with moccasins then i think we could do it with the nice hiking boots we have today haha.
I think one important thing to consider is how hard we are on our gear. While some can get along just fine with a 'delicate' pack for example, many people do better with more durable gear that weighs accordingly.
Either way, we each have to carry our own loads, and what ultimately matters is that we have what we need and want to enjoy our trip.
I tend to agree with Perkolady; IMHO it is really all about what you need and want to enjoy your trip.
Like some others on this forum, I have been backpacking for over 45 years. During that time I have always tried to keep my pack as light as possible while maintaining the rugged dependability that I like to have in my gear. Even though I grew up in the old school, I really like the new gear. Much of it is very dependable as well as being light weight. Part of the fun of backpacking for me is trying to fine tune my gear from trip to trip. Regarding the personal gear choices that are so often discussed on the HF, whether it is packing an ax, over sized knife, pistol, coffee press, an i pod, or a good pillow; I believe that "if you are capable of carrying it, and it works for you, go ahead and pack it".
FWIW, I also think that any progress that a person can make to improve their overall weight and personal fitness can have tremendous benefits on the trail. That taken in combination with some lightweight gear choices could help keep some of us old timers backpacking a few years longer than might otherwise have been possible.
flipflop
06-12-2012, 00:34
My Grandpa climbed Mountains in corduroys with a wood and steel pick/axe, using natural fiber ropes, thick wool sweaters, and canvas tents with his old army stove/canteens and matches. (Probably not too spectacular to anyone here, but when I was 18 I could not believe it....frankly I am still amazed)
He laughed at me and thought all my "fancy" gear was ridiculous. He did end up changing his mind about some things after we did a hike or two. "With all that stuff someone really could get themselves somewhere they aren't prepared to handle"
If he was still in the hiking mood these days he'd be blown away all the tricks and skills we can learn and share with each-other without bumping into eachother on the trail. I think that was really the only way he got to learn new tricks.
I know he'd think simple things you cannot buy like: good people, ability to tie 100 knots (and know when to use which), sew by hand, start a fire with the bare essentials, first aid, and the ability to know when to stop, setup, camp and call it day were the most important thing you could ever bring with you.
"Be able to use the bare essentials, but take the fancier stuff as you can to focus on enjoying it more. If you rely on the stuff too much maybe you have different priorities than you should."
A good balance is key, and to each their own. I'd rather rely on myself than my gear, but we all know it shouldn't be 100% one way or the other. Experience tells the story better, and I imagine I'll spend the rest of my life getting my story down :)
EDIT: sorry didn't realize how old this thread was...
I for one am glad you pulled this forward. I had not read it...found it very interesting.
I have enjoyed reading it also. Brings many ideas to mind. :)