View Full Version : Dutchware Suspension + New Hanger thoughts
Hi all, first time ever considering a camping hammock. I don't really want to spend as much as it would cost to get a blackbird setup so I was looking at dutchware hammocks.
The suspension options for the dutchware hammocks seem pretty expensive at basically the same price as the hammocks themselves... are these fairly standard prices for what you're getting or should I be looking elsewhere for those components?
With the hammock + suspension + a fronkey bugnet and a rain tarp prices all adding up i kinda feel like I might as well buy a hennessy hammock or a blackbird and have a hassle-free all-in-one purchase.
Thoughts?
I originally purchased a HH Hyperlite Asym Zip hammock. It served me well for the approximately 18 months I had it, but decided it was time to upgrade some things because the "hassle-free all-in-one" hammock I got wasn't quite cutting it anymore.
I'm happy with the hammock itself, but I've since added a Hammock Gear Incubator, a Hammock Gear Burrow, a Warbonnet Superfly (tarp), Kammok Python Straps (tree savers), and am about to purchase two continuous loops and two whoopie slings with whoopie hooks from Dutch Ware Gear.
So, while I initially purchased the "hassle-free all-in-one" hammock from HH, I still made changes. I guess that's something you might want to keep in mind...the "hassle-free all-in-one" version doesn't mean you won't want to make changes to it as you learn about other options and after you get some hangs under your belt. It took me about a year and a half of hanging to decide there were some things I could do to make my hanging life easier and it was worth the time and money to do so.
DanglingModifier
04-29-2015, 00:16
Here are a couple thoughts:
Dutch's prices are generally quite competitive. If you price out what it would take to make most of the suspension components yourself out of raw materials (sewing tree straps, splicing whoopie slings and/or continuous loops) you'll find he doesn't charge much for the finished product. Splicing and sewing can be fun, and if you like the idea of making some of your own gear I encourage you to try it. At the end of the day you'll probably agree that it's only worth doing for the enjoyment and learning, not for the few dollars you might have saved on your suspension. Don't forget you'll want a ridgeline for the hammock as well. That's extra, but a stock component for the HH or Blackbird.
The stock Hennessy tarp turns out to be insufficient for just about anyone's needs. Add the money for the upgrade to their hex tarp at a minimum to what you're considering. The Hennessy suspension is outdated and cumbersome. Add the cost of switching that out to something that is easier to work with if you want apples to apples against the competitors. Lastly, lots of people find the HH to be less comfortable than other vendor offerings. YMMV on that. You'll have a hassle-free purchase, but I doubt you'll have entirely hassle free use of what you purchase.
On to the Blackbird... it doesn't come with a tarp. You'll need to add that to your purchase. It's a reasonably hassle-free purchase, and likely a better experience then you'll have with a HH but you'll pay more on day one.
The main benefit to going Dutch is that you will have a very modular system where you can easily swap out parts. Turns out you don't like the stretch of Argon? Sell the hammock for a $15 loss (postage inclusive) and buy one made of a different material. Everything else can stay the same.
Background: I own hammocks from all three vendors.
Sintax77
04-29-2015, 10:29
P Chang and DanglingModifier pretty much described exactly what I went through as well. I was originally overwhelmed by all the options too. Even the thought of picking out a separate tarp and learning how to rig it was apparently a bit scary to me at the time, so I tapped out and bought a Hennessy Expedition instead. Don't get me wrong, coming from a tent, the transition was a game changer, and I used my Hennessy with stock tarp for almost 2 years or so, but eventually I upgraded the tarp to the larger Hex model, put heavy as lead Python straps on it to escape the cumbersome stock suspension, and shortly after just went and bought a Dream Hammock Darien with cinch buckles which literally saved me like 3 pounds compared to my original setup, haha.
The plan was to pass my Hennessy on to my wife to use, but you know what I ended up doing? I just recently bought her an 11 foot purple NylonD hammock from Dutch (I had previously experimented with some 10 foot loungers, so I was already hooked). The modular systems are just so customizable and fun - it's hard to resist once you get some knowledge. We still use the Hennessy Hex tarp for her, which I love, so I'm getting my money's worth out of that. The HH Expedition though? I'm actually not even sure which drawer I put it in at this point. And again, it's not a bad hammock by any means. But that's just how things ended up.
I think the main factor for me was not getting very deep into these forums when first buying and using a hammock for quite some time. Once I did, my perspective changed pretty quickly. The fact that you're already posting and asking questions before even buying a hammock leads me to believe that you might end up with a similar story in a year or two. Just a guess :)
Dead Man
04-29-2015, 11:18
This is a completely unscientific statement and only supported by what I read here on the forum on a daily basis. The person that walks into the hammock world and make their initial purchase and stay completely with that purchase and makes no changes, whether that be tarp, suspension type or even the hammock itself, is a rarity. Yeti or Sasquatch rare.
One thought not presented thus far for you, and I may have missed it in the reading of the other posts, is the DIY route. This may not be an option for you because of time constraints or perceived, on your part, lack of ability, however it is a relatively less expensive way to go.
In the interest of full disclosure, I sleep in a HH but I have changed the suspension method, had a modification done on the zipper bugnet. I initially upgraded to a larger tarp but have since purchased and used several different varieties of tarps.
The Dutch avenue is a sound and safe way to enter the hammock world for most everyone, but I would dare say, yea even predict, that with use and time, you too will adjust, tweek or outright change the setup you get from Dutch out of necessity, interest or the sheer fun fiddle factor that is inherent in hammock camping.
Once you go hammock the odds are highly favorable you won't go back. Not a stone cold lock but pretty close. The key is to make some experienced friends that will walk with you through the process and you won't regret the choices you make along the way. :shades:
Ragabash
04-29-2015, 11:36
It's true, I started out with a HH Explorer. Don't get me wrong, it's quality construction and I'm sure lots of people are happy with it, but I found it lacking in so many ways. I didn't have another couple of hundred to spend, so I started replacing it piece by piece using cheap and simple DIY. I now have a great setup that's lighter, fits not just me but camping style better, is more comfortable because it's made just for me and my tastes, and was about 1/4 the cost. Maybe half, I didn't keep track.
Any time you buy an off-the-shelf system, it will be something that's made to attract the largest number of consumers, and isn't necessarily going to be perfect for any of them.
That being said, I've ordered quite a bit from Dutch, and I've never been unhappy with anything. I've only ordered it for DIY purposes, though. I don't have any experience with his suspension systems.
NJHiker85
04-29-2015, 11:37
As a fellow noob to the hammock world, I read a lot. Probably two months of lurking this site and the ultimatehang.com before I made my purchase. I'm glad I did.
Originally I was going to go for a tricked out Thunderbird from Dream hammocks. I may get one someday, but I went with a 11 ft. Dutch NylonD.
I blinged out with Dutch clips and Whoopie hooks. You don't need to at all. You can do it later, just get some long (15ft.) pair of tree straps and hang with a marlin spike. I do love my my dutch clips though.
The beauty of hanging your hammock with marlin spike (or a slippery sheet bend) with the tree straps, is you can hang between pretty close trees, just a little father apart then your ridgeline. I do this when the whoopie hooks are just too long.
If you get the hammock and whatever suspension from Dutch, don't forget a ridgeline. Dutch sells one cheap with brummel lops on both ends.
Go with Dutch, you won't be disappointed. He ships super fast
Madman4049
04-29-2015, 13:20
Haha some of the comments in this thread remind me of me. Started with back problems, ordered a HH Exped A-Sym, used it for a while, ordered the bubble pad and hex fly, used that for a while. Got sick of it cause it was never that comfortable but still better than the hard ground. Now I got me all kinds of titanium bling, high speed high tech ropes made of magic, and tarps so light and thin I can see through them. And it's all around half the weight and pack size of the HH setup.
Dutch's stuff is da bomb and really makes setup exciting and fun at the end of a long day hiking when I'm worn out. It's so simple and light it's a blast to put up. I used to use knots for everything and can't remember the last time I tied a knot on the trail it's awesome.
WalksIn2Trees
04-29-2015, 14:12
I've been hanging with a $40 hammock from Sports Authority which I complement with a tarp from walmart, and some brown tule from Jo Ann Fabrics that I've sewn into an enclosed bugnet (my time to do without which is seriously limited now with the warm weather (finally) here today) in all I probably have $150-200 in just the hammock system (2 hammocks, one for me, one for my gear; the tule; the tarp; straps for hanging and to give the bottom hem of my bugnetting some weight and strength; cammo paracord, for ridgeline and tie-outs; Bungees; stakes; etc. The straps I use are actually 2-inch nylon belts that my job is nice enough to unknowingly "donate". The clips broke quickly under the stress, but I am resourceful.
WalksIn2Trees
04-29-2015, 14:23
Oh, and I have been hanging almost continuously, a 3.75 season hanger, for the last 3 years since I started, and doing it with almost no spare cash. Feel free to pick my brain.
jamaulwall
04-29-2015, 14:36
I started out with an ENO hammock and Atlas straps, a blue Walmart Tarp, and an old closed cell foam pad I had on hand. It was a far from perfect set up but it got me off the ground and was cheap enough for me to test and see if I liked camping in a hammock. I've since purchased several other hammocks of different brands, I think I have 6 in all, and my favorite of them all is my 11' Dutch PolyD hammock. I sleep best in that hammock without shoulder squeeze or calf ridges. Dutch's gear really is competively priced and high quality. The whoopie sling suspension can be found cheaper elsewhere but not with the whoopie hooks which are incredibly handy IMHO. When I first switched over to whoopies I purchased this full kit from arrowhead equipment (http://www.arrowhead-equipment.com/store/p371/Marlin_Spike_Whoopie_Kit.html)and used the marlin spike hitch. This was a little cheaper, but I ended up getting some whoopie hooks from Dutch somewhere along the line and much prefer that setup. I still use a marlin spike hitch on occasion when trees get to close but most of the time the whoopie hook wins out.
Anyway, I've gotten a little long winded but my point is that Dutch's gear is popular for a reason. It provides a lot of convenience at really competitive prices. For the items you get, it's tough to beat his prices unless you DIY. I'd highly recommend the Dutch setup you described for any beginner. I love the modularity and convenience it provides. Ultimately, everyone goes through their own journey to figure out what works best for them. You have to start somewhere, and going Dutch is a great place to start but whatever you choose you'll likely tinker and adjust your setup to suit your needs as time goes on. So don't worry too much about getting the "perfect" setup out of the gate. Just get something to get you off the ground!
The Whoopie Hook suspension is fantastic. I just ordered another set with the Double Hammock Whoopie Hook for hanging with my daughter. We both have an Eno Junglenest. I've gone the route of DIY for my tarp and underquilts though. This is addicting on so many levels.
I'm a pretty new hammocker, but I already own several options. Dutch, Warbonnet, etc. After a week on the AT, I found that I did not like the whoopie suspension at all. Before you buy, check your options. This guy does a pretty good job of explaining why I don't like the whoopies and some alternatives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ88JeVkyrY&list=WL&index=42
I'm now using kevlar huggers from Dutch, and muletape straps from antigravitygear. Very light, quick, flexible and fuss free. (http://www.antigravitygear.com/shop/shelters-accessories/antigravitygear-muletape-suspension-straps)
jamaulwall
04-30-2015, 10:39
I'm a pretty new hammocker, but I already own several options. Dutch, Warbonnet, etc. After a week on the AT, I found that I did not like the whoopie suspension at all. Before you buy, check your options. This guy does a pretty good job of explaining why I don't like the whoopies and some alternatives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ88JeVkyrY&list=WL&index=42
I'm now using kevlar huggers from Dutch, and muletape straps from antigravitygear. Very light, quick, flexible and fuss free. (http://www.antigravitygear.com/shop/shelters-accessories/antigravitygear-muletape-suspension-straps)
You are correct that the whoopie suspension isn't for everyone. I personally like it for my uses but I do more summer backpacking than winter camping. I'd look into some other cinch buckle system for cold winter camps as it would be easier to adjust with cold hands. Dutch's new kevlar straps may be the best of both worlds... Anyway, I wanted to share my take on a couple of the points from this video. First, it's true that whoopies can only be shortened so much but I've found that I can get around that easily enough with soft shackles and dogbones which I always carry with me anyway since they are handy for many things around camp and weigh next to nothing. I can always find a stick to use as the toggle in a marlin spike hitch and some combination of dogbone, soft shackle, etc. always takes up the extra length in the suspension in the rare event it is needed. I find that if the trees are too close for my whoopies, they are also too close to make my tarp work well so I look for other trees that are spaced a little further apart.
I have 8" continuous loops on all my hammocks so that gives me a lot of flexibility with my suspension system. I can hang right off the loops or add a dogbone, whoopie sling, etc. to make things work. That's why I love to use whoopie hooks with my whoopie slings. It works for me. Plus, the whoopie hook provides a natural water break/drip point to keep the rain out of my hammock. YMMV
A word of caution on using knots on Amsteel as suggested in the video. Knots really degrade the strength of Amsteel, which is why they are typically spliced rather than knotted. Sure it can and likely will hold you for many uses with knots but at some point you are probably going to end up falling on your back on the cold, hard ground. If you want knots, stick with the antigravity gear mule tape and becket hitch system. I'm not saying anyone is planning on using knots in amsteel but since the posted video suggests it I thought I'd bring it up.
It really comes down to personal preference and you can't know what you like until you try a few things out. Decide what is most important to you, ease of use, weight, bulk, cost, etc. and make your decision from there. Best of luck.
Great perspective and advice. Thank you!
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and experiences. After doing some more research and reading the responses here I decided to go with dutch. Before I finalize the purchase does this look about right?
http://i.imgur.com/IhuopyP.png
I haven't decided which tarp yet, but it'll probably be an HH hex fly
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and experiences. After doing some more research and reading the responses here I decided to go with dutch. Before I finalize the purchase does this look about right?
http://i.imgur.com/IhuopyP.png
I haven't decided which tarp yet, but it'll probably be an HH hex fly
Looks like a good start! You will love that setup.
2 quick things I noticed:
1. If you are going with an 11' hammock, I would def go with an 11' net instead of the 10' you have selected.
2. The nylon d comes with a double sided stuff sack already. It's always nice to have an extra stuff sack though!
Ah thanks for that, I didni't know that about the hammocks and I totally missed that about the bugnet hehe
I love the Dutch stuff - and I feel like you can really dial in your hammocking experience by taking a few trips and seeing what it is that bugs you (yes, pun intended.) For me, I idn;t want to be dealing with knots to adjust tarp constantly, so I went with Dutch Fleaz. And Dutch's Kevlar straps are lighter and are more visible so I don't get hung up in them in the overnight hours (gosh, what would I be doing wandering around the campsite after dark?) Anyway, I say take a few trips and see where the sticking points are and then go after those areas to make thing easier. Big thumbs up for the Dutch Wasp by the way, they made adjusting and getting the tarp over me in rain a lot easier and faster.
GreenT