Pertex

[wisenber]

I know, I know! I always seem to be obsessed with keeping both me and my gear warm and dry.

I was wondering if anyone has experimented with Pertex for a hammock sock. I've got a windshirt and an insulated shirt made out of the stuff, and the fabric qualities seem pretty good. It's not waterproof, but it is "shower proof". It seems to be pretty light ( I think the weights range from .9oz/yd to 1.3 oz/yd).
It's also got a capillary action between the inner and out threads of the fabric that are suppose to wick. It also packs down REALLY small.

Basically, I'm looking for a sock that will repel fog and mist and stop some wind while breathing and wicking the condensation away. Those qualities would free me up for some multi-day hikes in conditions where field drying might not be possible.

Just looking for some input...

[east_stingray]

I use a GoLite ultra 20 as a TQ, which has pertex endurance at the head and foot baffles. I've noticed that in the morning the pertex baffles are absolutely soaked on the outside, so it must do a really good job of repelling water... I never noticed dampness near my head before, so that means it was soaking into my sleep system.

[wisenber]

I've noticed that the capillary action works pretty well on my windshirt and my insulated shirt, but that is with my body heat driving it out. I usually hang my hammock socks over my ridgeline. I was wondering if the capillary effect would still happen with the heat source (me) being further from the fabric.

Pertex seems to be great for sleeping bags and garments, that's why I was thinking about trying it for a hammock sock or pod.

The next question would be, where does one buy it? The only place I've found so far is in the UK.
http://www.profabrics.co.uk/snap_sub_product_search.php?search=true&category=Fabrics%3E%3EPertex&termsx=Fabrics%3E%3EPertex

[Mule]

For the qualities you are looking for, I think the JRB poncho and weather cover kit are very nice. Breathable and light.

[wisenber]

I've got a Weathershield2 and a converted DriDucks. The Weathershield2 seems to trap too much moisture inside on the sil panels. The DriDucks material has all of the qualities, except it takes two of them to make a pod (which I currently use), and that is going to make my winter kit bulkier than what I want. Two DriDucks ponchos snapped together over a ridgleline does work over my peapod, it's just more bulk and weight than I want. I could probably live with the few extra ounces, but they are like two cantaloupes in volume. While I might admire that in a woman, I'd just assume skip that with my pack.

[warbonnetguy]

don't think anyone sells pertex retail in the usa.

[wisenber]

It looks like about $6/meter plus shipping at the UK website. If the shipping is not outrageous, it might not be bad.

Any thoughts on using it for a pod/sock Brandon?
If I order a Yeti, I'd like to keep it dry. :)

[warbonnetguy]

price isn't too bad, you'd pay 6$/yd for reg 1.1dwr here.

talk to them, they might be able to ship it for 20$ or so, if you get enough it would probably be worth it.

[Heber]

Ron at Mountain Laurel Designs says on his "fabric mojo" page that his experience is that Momentum (which you can get from thru-hiker) is as good or better than Pertex. My windshirt is made of momentum and it's great stuff.

[warbonnetguy]

i've seen both, haven't done any tests, but the pertex "looks" like it's probably more water resistent. a little bit crinkly. i was impressed by it. the momentum seems just like a softer smoother 1.1 ripstop with a good dwr. i liked the "feel" of the pertex better for the outer shell of a quilt or something. the stuff i saw was the pertex golite has on their tq.

[nigelp]

I have used pertex for a hammock sock and many of my hammocks are also made from pertex. It is good as a hammock sock and a nice material to work with being less slippery than some nylons.

While we struggle to get some material in the UK, pertex is not one of them. There is a seller on the UK Ebay who has it at a good price and may ship to the states. With a favourable exchange rate I think you could likely buy a small UK village at the moment!!

Nigel

[LuckyJim]

Nigel,

The sock looks good and a great addition for wet UK conditions.

I've thought before that a Winter Blackbird option would be great with a pertex or momentum top, in place of (as opposed to - in addition to) the no-see-um. Perhaps with just a small mesh panel for additional venting/breathability. A sock is great but does make the weight of the netting redundant when the weather's too cold for the bugs.

Whaddya think Warbonnet-guy? Would that be a custom option you would consider making up?

[wisenber]

I have used pertex for a hammock sock and many of my hammocks are also made from pertex. It is good as a hammock sock and a nice material to work with being less slippery than some nylons.

While we struggle to get some material in the UK, pertex is not one of them. There is a seller on the UK Ebay who has it at a good price and may ship to the states. With a favourable exchange rate I think you could likely buy a small UK village at the moment!!

Nigel

Nigel,

Thanks for the info! That was exactly what I was looking for. I just sent an email to the vendor on Ebay-UK to see if he might have Quantum as well (and to see if he ships to the US).
The exchange rate comment would be accurate if the US Dollar was not in a fevered race to the bottom with your Sterling.

[wisenber]

If anyone is interested, I put up a potential "group buy" for Pertex in the 4sale section.

[Dutch]

What does it weigh a yard?

[wisenber]

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11795

MicroLite is 1.3/yd, Quantum is 0.9/yd

http://www.pertex.com/#

The link has the fabric info, but you do have to wait for the flash to load.:thumbdown:

[clearskyblue]

I have completed an underquilt entirely in pertex and half way thru an overquilt.It has come out far,far better than I had anticipated.I have to put this largely down to the quality of the material its really nice to work with.Definately my choice for quilts and as my countryman Nigel rightly says its available to us here in the UK.90% of materials /items used and discussed on HF are simply not known or stocked here in England heck I even struggle to get goosey down.

I have wondered if using it for a hammock sock would be a wise move?It has all the properties being light,wind proof water repellant yet highly breathable .I would say go for it and if it does not work for you in the capacity you want it to you can always reclaim the piece and turn it into another item such as a quilt.It looks beautiful when in its finished form.

[headchange4u]

Pertex is a very nice material, but I don't know how well it would work for a sock. From my experience a sock needs to be made from a HIGHLY breathable material or you could run into condensation problems. I've had issue when using fabrics with only a light DWR coating. My favorite material for a sock is 1.1oz untreated ripstop. I've never used Pertex so such an application So I may be wrong.

[wisenber]

Pertex is a very nice material, but I don't know how well it would work for a sock. From my experience a sock needs to be made from a HIGHLY breathable material or you could run into condensation problems. I've had issue when using fabrics with only a light DWR coating. My favorite material for a sock is 1.1oz untreated ripstop. I've never used Pertex so such an application So I may be wrong.

From what I've read about Pertex MircoLight and Quantum, they achieve their windproof and water resistant properties by using two different width yarns in the weave while using a very tight weave. The two widths of yarn or thread are used to produce a capillary action from the smaller diameter (lower surface area) inside to the larger diameter (higher surface area) outside. The higher volume outside then promotes drying more quickly. That would be the wicking/drying component.

The tight weave is also used to make the fabric windproof while still allowing air to escape. I believe the size of the weave is also contribute to the water repellent abilities.

The main uses for the fabric are for windshirts (some less than three ounces) and sleeping bags. The main benefits versus fabrics with similar properties is weight and packability.

For me, I'd like for my sock to be water repellent (to keep off fog, mist and splash), wind resistant ( to raise the temperature rating of my system), breathable ( to permit respiration/condensation to escape), and wicking ( to allow moisture from perspiration/respiration/condensation to move to the outside of the fabric).

My DriDucks ponchos meet all of those requirements, but they fall short in a couple of areas. The DriDucks fabric is not very durable, and the DriDucks fabric does not compress very well.

[Gailainne]

I have a couple of pertex/down sleeping bags, they are very air tight, in fact they can be a serious pain in the rear to get back into their stuff sacks, but it does make them very warm.

I have just bought some pertex that I plan on using to make a winter u/quilt with the down from the recent group buy, along with a cover plus a sock for my Blackbird, I'm looking forward to trying them out this winter.

I believe that the machines/patent has been sold to the Chinese, like a lot of other things, but there are equivalents out there.

Cheers

Stephen

[wisenber]

I believe that the machines/patent has been sold to the Chinese, like a lot of other things, but there are equivalents out there.



According to a BPL article in 2006, Mitsui of Japan bought them out when they went bankrupt. That is the same company that manufactures eVent.

[vitamaltz]

Gailainne, would you recommend a small strip of DWR on an otherwise all-Pertex quilt to help it deflate easier? A few of us have made quilts with sidewalls lately. I'm thinking maybe if everything but the sidewall (same height as the loft) was Pertex, you'd get much of the benefit as well as better packability.

[wisenber]

Gailainne, would you recommend a small strip of DWR on an otherwise all-Pertex quilt to help it deflate easier? A few of us have made quilts with sidewalls lately. I'm thinking maybe if everything but the sidewall (same height as the loft) was Pertex, you'd get much of the benefit as well as better packability.

I'd be curious about which type of Pertex was used. There are about half a dozen types with varying weight/breathability/water resistance. Go Lite and Feathered Friends uses the Endurance and Quantum combined.

[Gailainne]

Gailainne, would you recommend a small strip of DWR on an otherwise all-Pertex quilt to help it deflate easier? A few of us have made quilts with sidewalls lately. I'm thinking maybe if everything but the sidewall (same height as the loft) was Pertex, you'd get much of the benefit as well as better packability.

I may have slighty :D exagerated how difficult it is to pack, it does feel like it has a mind of its own sometimes though.

The Rab bag I have is Pertex Quantum Endurance according to the blurb, the Alpkit bag has a fabric called Toray, this is what they replaced Pertex with, which is the one thats quite air tight.

I bought 2 types of pertex, Pertex 4 which was the lightest they had in stock, and for the sock and cover I bought some pertex liner, dont have any details on it, apart from it was cheap, and it has the same properties as pertex.

Cheers

Stephen

[NickJ]

the problem with pertex (and in fact any breathable material) is that in fine, wet mist, it just cant breathe. it relies on small particles of water being able to either escape or be "wicked" from one side to the other. if you cover the outside in a fine mist, it just stops working.

if you have a goretex jacket for example, you ll notice that the inside gets damp when youre working hard in very fine rain (and heavy rain too). same principle going on.

i would suggest using silnylon for a sock, but making sure that you had adjustable vent holes at each end to ensure a throughput of air to stop any condensation. plus, its light and packs down to almost nothing.

[wisenber]

the problem with pertex (and in fact any breathable material) is that in fine, wet mist, it just cant breathe. it relies on small particles of water being able to either escape or be "wicked" from one side to the other. if you cover the outside in a fine mist, it just stops working.

if you have a goretex jacket for example, you ll notice that the inside gets damp when youre working hard in very fine rain (and heavy rain too). same principle going on.

i would suggest using silnylon for a sock, but making sure that you had adjustable vent holes at each end to ensure a throughput of air to stop any condensation. plus, its light and packs down to almost nothing.

That is true to an extent with breathable fabrics. However, the wicking/breathing part is also driven by the temperature difference on the inside versus the outside. When the temperature on the inside is warmer, it drives the moisture to the cooler side. This is evident when you sleep with wet socks under your goretex at night. In the morning, the socks will be dry. It is your body heat that drives the vapor through the membrane. Silnylon on the other hand has no such potential to move vapor from a higher temperature gradient to a lower one. The moisture on the inside of the goretex is perspiration not rain. Your perspiration output has exceeded the ability of the membrane to let the moisture vapor escape. Pertex is far less water resistant than goretex, but the volume of moisture it will allow to escape exceeds goretex. That's why pertex is used for a windshirt versus a rain shell.