My Clark in the cold....tests!

[cooldays]

So I thought I'd post my experiences with colder weather in my clark so far. First test hovering about 50 deg F. to about 48 or49.

No under quilt. No Pad. In my synthetic 5lb 20 year old bag completely mistreated by washing machines constant compression for decades wearing only sweatpants and tee shirt. I was warm bag zipped.

Trial 2

Put one inch (hardly any) open cell foam in the pockets, unzip the bag and use as top quilt......not warm enough for me had to zip up the bag about 3 am but still only wearing tee and sweats.

Trial 3 45 degrees even in my bag without an underquilt I hit the limit....cut off without quilt is 50 degrees for my old sleeping bag and light clothes.

2 inch down underquilt added, full length. 45 degrees outside. I expected to be ohh so toasty and tried to use just that and my almost worthless 55 degree bag and airplane super light fleece blanket in my tee shirt and sweats. There were lots of cold spots on my back at 45 degrees and I clearly was disappointed in the UQ. I wanted to be toasty like everyone else posted. I think I did not have it adjusted well, however and think there is some learning curve with our equipment.

Final test 40 degrees
same UQ. maybe adjusted better?
synthetic bag zipped
Added clothes....socks, walmart compression dry black long underclothes under sweats and light mock turtle neck and hat
Ohhhh so toasty. I bet this can get me much colder at this set up and will try again as it gets colder. Still could comfortably add a fleece for example.

So it seems the following. Maybe there is a way to make the pockets work on a clark but i have to figure it out if so.
50 degrees is my cut off without a quilt and with a good bag
Using an UQ takes practice and small adjustments make a big difference cinching and moving it around.
Extra clothes layers make a huge difference, probably as much as an UQ or good bag.

Any suggestions anyone?

[NickJ]

Was it windy? If so was the direction causing wind to get between the UQ and the hammock base?

I think that the more air-trapping "stuff" that can be put in the pockets the better. I bought the z liner and it seems to work pretty well, though I havent had it really low down yet, temperature wise. I would try a z liner, or make the pads yourself, wouldnt be difficult and you could fill them with down rather than the synth stuff which is in them. In fact, I might replace the synth stuff with down.

[cooldays]

Nope, No wind that night.

I think I just need to learn to use the UQ better. I will test one night the pockets filled with clothes of some sort... Wouldn't it be great if you really did not need an UQ?!

Does anyone else have any experience with the Pockets filled for insulation? How much did you fill and how cold did you get without an UQ?

[sir_n0thing]

Getting your underquilt situated properly will most definitely make a HUGE difference, as will using the proper clothing. I find that good socks and a beanie or other head covering are a MUST in temps below 45. Other than that I seem to have had better luck with LESS clothing in some cases. Maybe with too many layers of insulation on my body I was unable to warm up the underquilt? Who knows...more experimentation is needed to verify anything.

[TinaLouise]

I can't add anything about insulation in the clark pockets because my tropical clark has the pockets divided and closer to the head & foot ends w/a large gap between. I therefore don't use them for insulation, only for my gear.
I use UQ's. BUT... I've noticed that on nights that I don't eat or I don't eat enough... that I'm colder than on nights that I do. Weird huh?? If I can, I like to at least drink something hot before retiring for the night.
Keep experimenting with your under quilts!!

[Triptease]

I had my 250 out in the Shenandoah's a couple of weekends ago. I had the Z-liner installed and used a GoLite Ultra 20 quilt down to about 42 and was completely toasty the entire night and could have gotten down much farther. Only clothes I wore were some Cabelas silk weight long underwear, Acorn fleece socks and a fleece ear warmer... I slept almost 13 straight hours and probably would have longer if nature hadn't called!!

[cooldays]

is the z liner essentially 6 different pads for 6 pockets? since the seams are all through are there cold spots? Is there more to it than what goes in the pockets? Maybe this means my little open cell foam was really just not enough?

[Triptease]

is the z liner essentially 6 different pads for 6 pockets? since the seams are all through are there cold spots? Is there more to it than what goes in the pockets? Maybe this means my little open cell foam was really just not enough?

Yep. The Clark-produced Z-liner (http://junglehammock.com/models/zliner/index.php)also has a "lightbulb" piece that velcros to the footend of the hammock. In total it is 26oz (Clark's estimate). Rather than reinstalling every time I set the hammock up, I have purchased a Large Granite Gear Air Compressor sack that I stuff the entire hammock, plus Z-liner into and then compress down. It is still very burly inside my pack (taking up probably close to 1/3 to 1/2 of my total pack space, but once that is there, there isn't really much else that needs to be added. It has been so warm for me thus far, that I don't need to carry additional ccf pads, extra quilts, extra underlayers, car windshield reflectors etc. so all-in-all, even though the total system weighs a bit more, I actually end up carrying less.

Also, I personally have not noticed any cold spots from where the liners intersect. Others might have different experiences. I would say that my only complaint with the Z-liner would be that the lightbulb piece tends to come un-velcroed at night from all the thrashing that I do when I'm sleeping (and I do A LOT of thrashing) which leads to cold spots, but it's usually fixed by curling up or sticking my feet back into my bag footbox, or when I go answer the call of nature, I'll fix it right quick.

[lonetracker]

i have had my clark for 3 years now,and have probably spent 35 to 40 nights in it that were below 30 deg.down to 10deg.i fill the pockets with sweaters,socks flannels,whatever.i never get cold,cold feet occasionally,but then i put my socks on.i have never noticed cold spots.this fill the pocket method does work.i never heard of an underquilt until a few months ago.i dont beleive they are necessary if you have the pockets,unless you are saving some weight for a backpack trip (takes a lot of sweaters to fill those pockets) or are sleeping really cold say below o.i normally hang close to my truck so i bring plenty of stuff to a,well stuff in my pockets.
hang warm,and do what you think you got to to stay warm.being cold could ruin a good nights hang.

[cooldays]

Its been raining about 24 to 36 hours (with me not in it...) Seems simple but...the tarp works. The drip rings don't seem to be letting water in the hammock but then again they don't seem to be wet either with the standard suspension that clark has.

This may not seem like a big deal but I tried to sleep in my Eagles nest single under a tarp in the rain and got so annoyed by the water dripping slowly down my back from the suspension lines last fallthat I had to go to the tent.... how sad.

Now I am starting to feel more comfortable with what it (and thus I) can do.

[cavediver2]

Cooldays I read your post and can't help but think that not only are you having problems with your sleeping system but I also noticed that you were not really wearing clothing to keep you warm. Even though sweats can feel warm they do nothing for the body to keep it warm. Most people will tell you that Cotton will freeze and even kill you depending on the givin situation. Start looking a man made fibers like polypropylene as such.

You did say that you did put some bottom insulation under your bag that is a good start. Some will say that filling the pockets full of things will help you stay warmer and in fact it's better than nothing in the pockets.

As someone else said eating before bed is not a good thing to do at home because you really do not burn of the food but when it's cold out and you in the elements eating can help you stay warmer. Your body goes into overdrive trying to burn off what you just ate and help make you warmer.

There are all kinds of way to get you down to a lower temperature but you have to do some home work and snoop around these forums not all thing you read here will work for you but there are so many people on this forum that will help in anyway they can and you can learn allot from them.

keep up the testing as you will soon find you spot that you like the most and works the best for you.
I remember the first Clark I owned all the trials that i went through with mine i tested in my back yard for days on end before i knew what I could do with my clark and my setup. I have since did -7 on several occasions in mine but not with out freezing my tail end off and running back into the house in a last ditch effort to get warm.

good luck on your test

[cooldays]

Thanks! I'll keep trying to find the safe/comfort zone. There is no question that hammocks seem "simple" but that is deceptive in the cold.

The Latest test:

25 degrees and I was warm. It just wasn't a super light setup. The Clark weather shield at ths temperature was a HUGE difference on vs off!! Makes me wonder what people do without it.

I think I can be more efficient now if I can figure how to get the UQ to conform better. The problem was at that temperature I was not too good tying small knots trying to adjust my UQ to the adjustable tie out tabs i had just bought. All the ones I had placed seemed to have untie during the night somehow

and the shock cord was too loose by itself to keep it tight against the bottom of the hammock, when I just used the shock cord tied to the hammock suspension. Part of this is because the shock cord slid so much on the hammock suspension line if I tied it inside the drip rings. If you tie it outside them your UQ will become the new "drip ring". Seems like it would be nice to have something that is like a hammock for the bottom of the hammock that you can attach to the hammock and place your underquilts pads in that will also keep it dry. (My UQ had ice on it in the am at the foot end)

Still.... I was warm all night

2 pairs of socks
conforming polyester long long johns
cotton sweats and poly mock turtle
cheapo cap

My worthless 55 degree rei bag as a bag liner
my 20 year old synthetic abused bag

[Triptease]

Cooldays I read your post and can't help but think that not only are you having problems with your sleeping system but I also noticed that you were not really wearing clothing to keep you warm.

I completely agree with you. According to cooldays last post, his most recent setup at 25* consisted of cotton sweats and a setup with a 55* bag and a 20 yr old abused synthetic bag. I don't know what his intention to use this setup is (i.e. backpacking, car camping, kayaking, etc.) but it would seem to me to be a very inefficient system. A 55* bag in 25* isn't cutting it, especially if the other synthetic bag is as used and abused as claimed. That synthetic insulation probably long ago lost most of its insulative properties. As such, he would be relying mostly on the 55* to provide most of the insulation, which would be even further negated by the cotton sweatpants as you mentioned. Some simple upgrades in these areas would GREATLY increase the insulation and warmth. For example, I slept outside last night at 25* and had only silkweight polypro underwear, Acorn fleece socks, a microfleece hat and my Golite Ultra 20 and was very toasty with warmth to spare.

Right now is a perfect time to upgrade since a lot of manufacturers and outfitters will be having massive end-of-year sales in the next several weeks. I know REI typically has theirs not long after Christmas and you can find some scorching deals then.

[cavediver2]

The Clark weather shield at ths temperature was a HUGE difference on vs off!! Makes me wonder what people do without it.


I know for a fact that it add's at least 8-10 degree's more warmth being on but remember to leave a small hole at the top so that you get rid of the condensation inside. about a 1-2 inch hole with the zipper pulls should stop that.

[NickJ]

In my view wool thermals are far better than man made. they stay warm when wet, and don't smell either. I use a brand called woolpower, and also have icebreaker, and a brand called chocolate fish.

The addition of wool (200 weight) long johns and a top takes your -10 sleeping bag down to easily -25. Add thicker wool into the mix and you're pretty much set for anything assuming you're not exposed to wind (and youre certainly not in an nx-250 with a UQ or z-liner)