View Full Version : under quilt - KickAss
hacktorious
06-03-2007, 11:52
Anyone in here have a KickAss Quilt? I am interested in getting an under quilt for my HH and am considering this one.
I like the idea of synthetic materials for the bottom because I use a small rain fly , which creates a little more potential to get wet. I also like the cool camo color.
I currently have a JRB nest, but like using it as an over quilt. Cost is my other concern. I don't want to spend a ton of $ on a down quilt, or the time to make one.
However, I don't like the extra weight do to the synthetic materials. I guess you have to choose your battles.
angrysparrow
06-03-2007, 12:08
Anyone in here have a KickAss Quilt? I am interested in getting an under quilt for my HH and am considering this one.
I've got one on order, but it's not here yet... does that count? :)
There are quite a few people here on the forum who have them. BlackBishop351 has taken over manufacturing them, and I'm sure he'll chime in to answer whatever questions you have. He seems to prefer that they be called 'Potomac' quilts instead of KAQ, though. KAQ was the business name of the previous proprieter.
hacktorious
06-03-2007, 12:51
OK, I changed the subject to Potomac.....lol
Is the only way to order via phone?
blackbishop351
06-03-2007, 12:54
OK, I changed the subject to Potomac.....lol
Is the only way to order via phone?
Sorry about the delayed response, man...
Feel free to send me a PM for questions or ordering. Thanks for the terminology correction, too! :p
The info Patrick has on his site:
http://www.kickassquilts.com
is accurate - I'm using his exact design. I'll also have my own site up soon, hopefully within the week.
headchange4u
06-03-2007, 14:36
I don't personally own one but several members here have them and I have heard nothing but good things about them.
Just Jeff
06-03-2007, 19:16
I have one - you can read my thoughts on it here (http://www.tothewoods.net/GearTestKAQ.html). Great product.
southmark
06-03-2007, 20:25
I have one also. It is a great product. I really like the way it fastens to and fits (like a glove) my HH ULB.
hacktorious
06-03-2007, 20:31
I have one - you can read my thoughts on it here (http://www.tothewoods.net/GearTestKAQ.html). Great product.
Thanks for the info.
I decided to get one; I think I will get it in gray.
Thanks.
mr. dribbles
06-04-2007, 09:05
Mine kept me warm into the low 20 degrees. Probably the best combination of weight, warmth and cost. Like other aspects of hanging, though, takes a few times to get the adjustments just right. When it's right, it's sweet.
Mine EASILY keeps me warm to 29. The somewhat high number is in part due to my still using a 20+ year old 30degree (new, that was being generous) sleeping bag as an overquilt. I am more than thrilled with my Patomic & recomend it highly.
hacktorious
06-04-2007, 17:59
I agree that it is the best combination. I did a lot of searching too. It works out perfect for me.
How does it work for a non-HH user? The web site says "I am currently working on a design that will allow full use of the cold mode with Speer or other non-ridgeline hammocks. Check back soon for pictures and results." Not sure what that means...
blackbishop351
06-05-2007, 01:04
I've been using one of Patrick's on my homemade Speer-type for a while now and it works great.
Doctari uses his on his Skeeter Beater (cheap top loader) and likes it. See earlier post for his exact words.
Doctari uses his on his Skeeter Beater (cheap top loader) and likes it. See earlier post for his exact words.
Yea, it works well. As it's made for a asym hammock, it is 'Lopsided" but it works so I do;nt worry about it. The patomic is (just like the HH) for ment ot be layed in L to R, I am not comfortable laying that direction, I lay R to L, I stay warm as posted above.
It IS heavier than HE's down underquilt & the no sniveller, but the price is right & at Traildays ABOUT 1/4 of it got SOAKED, (I think from capillary action from touching my tarp) on Thursday night, yet I stayed warm once I wrung it & my sleeping bag out.
Be sure to read & follow the directions, AND: PRACTICE AT HOME before your first trip. I didn't before my first trip, nearly froze, & adjusting an unfamiliar piece of gear, at night, with no light, is nearly impossible. I managed, but please: Learn from my mistake. I can now adjust everything in total darkness, but thats cause I learned from MY mistake & practiced practiced practiced once I got home :D
hacktorious
06-05-2007, 10:33
For me it would end up being less weight than a JRB quilt with a JRB weather shield. I ordered a small and it weighs 24oz. The JRB quilt is 20oz. and the weather shield is 9.2 oz. So it is slightly more weight at 29.2 oz.
I feel the weather shield is necessary for the JRB because I have a small fly. However, I don't think the weather shield is necessary for the Potomac.
Peter_pan
06-05-2007, 13:21
For me it would end up being less weight than a JRB quilt with a JRB weather shield. I ordered a small and it weighs 24oz. The JRB quilt is 20oz. and the weather shield is 9.2 oz. So it is slightly more weight at 29.2 oz.
I feel the weather shield is necessary for the JRB because I have a small fly. However, I don't think the weather shield is necessary for the Potomac.
Hacktorious,
Your logic escapes me here....Why do you feel a WS is need for one UQ and not another UQ, which is the same size, given that they would both be used under the same small tarp.... Rain risk is the same to both UQ with a given tarp.
Best form of increased protection is to spend 2-7 oz for a larger tarp regardless of UQ....
Pan
hacktorious
06-05-2007, 14:16
Hacktorious,
Your logic escapes me here....Why do you feel a WS is need for one UQ and not another UQ, which is the same size, given that they would both be used under the same small tarp.... Rain risk is the same to both UQ with a given tarp.
Best form of increased protection is to spend 2-7 oz for a larger tarp regardless of UQ....
Pan
One quilt is synthetic and the other is down. Down doesn't work very well it gets wet. The synthetic stuff seems to keep me just as warm wet, or dry.
The chances of the quilt getting soaked are very slim anyways, even under my small fly, but I don't want to risk it with down. I feel much more comfortable taking a risk with synthetic, than with down.
I don't think a larger fly is necessary. I have been completely satisfied with my standard HH fly.
Peter_pan
06-05-2007, 16:07
One quilt is synthetic and the other is down. Down doesn't work very well it gets wet. The synthetic stuff seems to keep me just as warm wet, or dry.
The chances of the quilt getting soaked are very slim anyways, even under my small fly, but I don't want to risk it with down. I feel much more comfortable taking a risk with synthetic, than with down.
I don't think a larger fly is necessary. I have been completely satisfied with my standard HH fly.
Hacktorious,
I understand your issue but still don't buy the argument for the WS in your comparision.... The DWR finish of both the synthetic and down UQ will keep light drizzle, splash, etc at bay on either model....
Staying dry regardless of insulation is important in every case.... a wet synthetic that degrades ONLY 15-30 percent when wet, when you are at the design limits, say 30 degrees will still be a less than fun night... it will actually be sleepless in all likelyhood, if that degraded.... It is fine to think of synthetic as better when wet.... But it is best to not get either wet and planning to take risks on weather protection is not smart.... Bottom line is they both should have an adequate tarp for protection.... And if you want to compare the two for weight do so on the basis of the quilts alone, the WS is not required and adequate additional tarpage which is a far better way to reduce any wet risks, is available for as little as two additional oz over a stock fly.
As an extra note.... I bet that almost everyone who has experianced a wet sleeping bag (of any type) has experianced it in a tent that was either poorly sited or had a leaky top that resulted in a bathub bottom filling and the bag soaking , wicking from the low spot (normally the foot end, as the head is sited uphill by most)..... These are not normal risks in a hammock....
Normal risks in a hammock begin with inadequate to marginal tarps . These risks are exaccerbated by poor site selection where side wind become a factor.
Pan
hacktorious
06-05-2007, 16:26
Hacktorious,
I understand your issue but still don't buy the argument for the WS in your comparision.... The DWR finish of both the synthetic and down UQ will keep light drizzle, splash, etc at bay on either model....
Staying dry regardless of insulation is important in every case.... a wet synthetic that degrades ONLY 15-30 percent when wet, when you are at the design limits, say 30 degrees will still be a less than fun night... it will actually be sleepless in all likelyhood, if that degraded.... It is fine to think of synthetic as better when wet.... But it is best to not get either wet and planning to take risks on weather protection is not smart.... Bottom line is they both should have an adequate tarp for protection.... And if you want to compare the two for weight do so on the basis of the quilts alone, the WS is not required and adequate additional tarpage which is a far better way to reduce any wet risks, is available for as little as two additional oz over a stock fly.
As an extra note.... I bet that almost everyone who has experianced a wet sleeping bag (of any type) has experianced it in a tent that was either poorly sited or had a leaky top that resulted in a bathub bottom filling and the bag soaking , wicking from the low spot (normally the foot end, as the head is sited uphill by most)..... These are not normal risks in a hammock....
Normal risks in a hammock begin with inadequate to marginal tarps . These risks are exaccerbated by poor site selection where side wind become a factor.
Pan
Your probably correct. I have not heard many stories of people getting soaked in a hammock. Now that I think of it, I cannot recall any.....lol I do feel pretty confident in the new HH rain fly's, which are now 30% larger than they used to be.
So far I have not had any issues in the rain. Take a look (http://new.photos.yahoo.com/slideshow?view=album&c=hacktorious&albumID=576460762323653104&phdone=http%3A%2F%2Fnew.photos.yahoo.com%2Fhacktor ious%2Falbum%2F576460762323653104) at my tarp and see what you think. It has pretty good coverage. Unless the rain is coming from underneath the hammock, I think I am safe.
Your correct in saying site location is a major factor.
Peter_pan
06-05-2007, 16:42
Your probably correct. I have not heard many stories of people getting soaked in a hammock. Now that I think of it, I cannot recall any.....lol I do feel pretty confident in the new HH rain fly's, which are now 30% larger than they used to be.
So far I have not had any issues in the rain. Take a look (http://new.photos.yahoo.com/slideshow?view=album&c=hacktorious&albumID=576460762323653104&phdone=http%3A%2F%2Fnew.photos.yahoo.com%2Fhacktor ious%2Falbum%2F576460762323653104) at my tarp and see what you think. It has pretty good coverage. Unless the rain is coming from underneath the hammock, I think I am safe.
Your correct in saying site location is a major factor.
Hacktorious,
The new top is certainly an improvement.... more symetrical than in the past....still no true ridge line(seam) hence the forming troughs in the pictures... remember all silnyl is only waterproof to 1-3 psi, which is pretty low.
With good site selection and a low steep storm pitch, to the trees, you will probably be just fine....
Pan
hacktorious
06-05-2007, 16:45
Hacktorious,
The new top is certainly an improvement.... more symetrical than in the past....still no true ridge line(seam) hence the forming troughs in the pictures... remember all silnyl is only waterproof to 1-3 psi, which is pretty low.
With good site selection and a low steep storm pitch, to the trees, you will probably be just fine....
Pan
hmmmm........ Does anyone know what the average psi for rain storm's in the US is?
slowhike
06-05-2007, 21:46
speaking of down vs synthetic when wet, there was an interesting article on the backpackinglight.com site a while back.
according to their tests, there wasn't as much difference between the two in loft/ insulation when wet as thought.
and there wasn't nearly the difference in drying times (returning to original loft) as most people believe.
according to BPL.com, at least part of our deeply ingrained thinking about that subject has been pounded in by those that sell synthetic insulated products.
just food for thought. ...tim
gstepclassical
06-06-2007, 06:20
I don't know about the average psi encountered during a storm but I have constructed two BlackCat silnylon tarps now and have exposed them to some pretty good downpours. They have kept me bone dry. I think what Pan said about steep pitch is right on the mark. I have also built two Potomacs, one with two layers of insulation and one with three for my wife. They seem to work well down to about thirty degrees for us. I think you will be pleased with it. It does take some time to learn how to adjust it for varying temps so practice before you take it out for real. I have pictures of all in my gallery.
NCPatrick
06-06-2007, 07:52
according to BPL.com, at least part of our deeply ingrained thinking about that subject has been pounded in by those that sell synthetic insulated products.
just food for thought. ...tim
:rolleyes:
I hear that down is best from the down item salespeople, I hear that synthetic works really well from the synthetic item salespeople. There's obviously and certainly room in the market for both. The two types of insulation don't even compete with each other much for the same demographics price-wise. If anyone started selling really inexpensive down underquilts (assuming that would even be possible), or if there were some huge improvements regarding the bulk factor of synthetic insulation, then you'd start seeing battles for market share, but not yet. Until then I think people are content to continue to use what works best for them in their price comfort range. (Or just make their own.)
Sorry for the ramble. I'd better go get more coffee.
slowhike
06-06-2007, 10:38
:rolleyes:
I hear that down is best from the down item salespeople, I hear that synthetic works really well from the synthetic item salespeople. There's obviously and certainly room in the market for both. The two types of insulation don't even compete with each other much for the same demographics price-wise. If anyone started selling really inexpensive down underquilts (assuming that would even be possible), or if there were some huge improvements regarding the bulk factor of synthetic insulation, then you'd start seeing battles for market share, but not yet. Until then I think people are content to continue to use what works best for them in their price comfort range. (Or just make their own.)
Sorry for the ramble. I'd better go get more coffee.
the thing about the BPL.com article is that (as best i can remember) all the insulated clothing & quilts they sell are synthetic insulated, yet their test results seem to be calling the common thoughts on wet synthetic vs down a greatly exaggerated misconception. ...tim
NCPatrick
06-06-2007, 10:40
I would think that down might clump when wet, whereas synthetic wouldn't. But since I haven't actually seen any test results (has anyone?), the jury is still out on that. But ok. I guess I need a membership to BPL (maybe for Christmas).
slowhike
06-06-2007, 10:45
I would think that down might clump when wet, whereas synthetic wouldn't. But since I haven't actually seen any test results (has anyone?), the jury is still out on that. But ok. I guess I need a membership to BPL (maybe for Christmas).
i think you'll feel like you got your $25 worth;)
blackbishop351
06-06-2007, 10:49
I've read a fair bit on the BPL forums...I'm not terribly impressed. Seems like a lot of guys on soapboxes who try to support their inflexible opinions with dubious evidence. That's just a general observation, not necessarily pertaining to what Tim's talking about. JMO.
I posted this once on WB. But I think that when we look back at what we are using now in 10 years, we will get a good laugh.
I think that by then synethic insulation will pass down in terms of bulk and weight. That seems to be the trend with man made products.
But then again without advances like that, there would be nothing to reminence about when we get together and talk about the old days.
speaking of down vs synthetic when wet, there was an interesting article on the backpackinglight.com site a while back.
according to their tests, there wasn't as much difference between the two in loft/ insulation when wet as thought.
and there wasn't nearly the difference in drying times (returning to original loft) as most people believe.
according to BPL.com, at least part of our deeply ingrained thinking about that subject has been pounded in by those that sell synthetic insulated products.
just food for thought. ...tim
Yeah - I read that article also - be very careful in using that test to compare down and synthetic.
They used light clothing - vests - a LOT of surface area to insulation filled volume. That allowed both to dry quickly. A whole lot different than a quilt. A quilt will have a lot less surface area to insulation filled volume for drying than the vest did. Neither vest had much insulation to begin with.
They conducted the tests in AZ or NM (cannot remember which exactly right now). ANYTHING dries quickly in the southwest US. I've lived on both coasts for many years and there is a BIG difference in the climates. BPL editors and writers, live, work and hike and have an affinity for the left coast and their reporting reflects that. I moved from Philadelphia to LA (well just north west of LA actually) once. Bought a new refigerator. The new refrigerator had a little heater just outside the door gasket. When turned on, the heater caused any condensation to quickly evaporate and prevented rust. Having moved from the humid right coast to the very dry left coast and having lived on the very dry left coast for many years previously, I immediately turned the heater off since it was essentially useless in the DRY southwest. Needed a repair on the refrigerator a few weeks later. The repairman, in leaving, turned the heater on and told myself and my wife that we should leave the heater on, it costs a little more in electricity, but sometimes the humidity gets really bad, all the way up to 45% relative humidity. We just nodded and when he had left, we immediately turned it back off - AFTER we could stop rolling on the floor and laughing so hard. 45% relative humidity - if the humidity in Philadelphia ever got DOWN to 45% we were having a drought and it felt like heaven. So the moral of the story is if you live in a dry climate, you are not going to be concerned with drying a quilt, down OR synthetic. If you live on the right coast, you have to be concerned.
slowhike
06-06-2007, 19:33
teedee, you're right it was a very limited test. it would be interesting (& more practical) to see the same kind of testing w/ more insulation & wetter conditions.