View Full Version : MMG is losing weight!
MacEntyre
04-01-2016, 20:39
Just made a Shamu, a Baby Orca and a Top Blanket using 0.66 Momentum10 nylon taffeta.
All were made with Climashield APEX (TM) 2.2 which is good to freezing or below, depending on how hot you sleep.
The Shamu had a finished weight of 10.4 oz.
The Baby Orca had a finished weight of 7 oz.
The Top Blanket had a finished weight of 12 oz.
A 3' wide Torso Length Top Blanket had a finished weight of 6 oz.
A pillow made from scraps weighed 3.5 oz.
Stuff sacks for each of the items above came in at 0.3 oz each.
I decided to make all insulation products in future using 0.66 Momentum10 nylon taffeta on the inside, and 1.0 Robic on the outside, so that they will not be ruined when you encounter thorns, etc. I'll also make them, by request, with 0.66 Momentum10 throughout.
Hammock socks will be made using 1.0 Robic. Insulated Hammock Socks will use 0.66 Momentum10 on the inside.
For now, prices will not be affected by these changes. (The Permanent Father's Day Sale continues!)
I hope to get the web site updated real soon!
PapaSmurf
04-01-2016, 20:49
A good friend is bringing some of these fine products over to the workshop for a quick show & tell. I'm really looking forward to seeing the latest Molly Mac Gear. :thumbup1:
TFC Rick
04-01-2016, 21:32
MacEntyre I thought the lower the number of Climashield the less the insulation value? I don't have much experience with it though. Could you provide a little education for me on your material?
Thanks in advance.
MacEntyre
04-01-2016, 21:40
Climashield Apex 2.2 means it's nominally 2.2 oz per yard.
It's about 3/8" to 1/2" loft.
I don't like to use higher loft Climashield insulation because then it becomes hard to pack.
We find that it works very well above freezing. Folks that sleep warm can use it just below freezing.
Folks that need more insulation can request that we double it.
It works very well when you supplement... put a Top Blanket inside a Shamu, for instance.
Then you can get well below freezing.
P.S. For deep cold, I use vintage down (Speer Snugfit & PeaPod) with MMG canvas hammock sock.
never mind...you just answered me question
MacEntyre
04-02-2016, 05:21
I'm also going to use 1.1 SilPoly for Gear Boxes.
SwinginIt
04-02-2016, 06:21
Are the weights you listed for all momentum 10 or is it with the robic 1.0 outer?
MacEntyre
04-02-2016, 06:38
Haven't made any using 1.0 Robic outer layer yet...
figure it will add about an ounce to each of the weights in the OP (which are Momentum10 only).
Nice, Looking forward to seeing the latest offerings.
How about some pictures to satisfy my interest in the short term?
Inquiring minds want to know :lol:
MacEntyre
04-02-2016, 13:40
Pictures really don't convey the gossamer feel to the Momentum10 fabric.
Momentum10 Baby Orca
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l257/MacEntyre/MMG%20Products/Momentum10%20Baby%20Orca_zpsnm6p2qmf.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/MacEntyre/media/MMG%20Products/Momentum10%20Baby%20Orca_zpsnm6p2qmf.jpg.html)
Momentum10 Torso Length 3' wide Top Blanket
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l257/MacEntyre/MMG%20Products/Momentum10%20TorsoLen%20TQ_zpslf5wzpbm.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/MacEntyre/media/MMG%20Products/Momentum10%20TorsoLen%20TQ_zpslf5wzpbm.jpg.html)
Countrybois
04-02-2016, 15:26
I don't think a normal person will get anywhere near freezing with a single layer of 2.2 Apex.... Doubled maybe......
MacEntyre
04-02-2016, 16:36
My daughter and I have done it on a regular basis... I guess that reinforces your point, eh? ;)
I'm not saying that's a "rating" at all... freezing is a limit, in my view.
Some will reach it in comfort, and some will not.
Besides, no one has to figure out what will work for normal people, or abnormal people.
You only have to figure out what will work for yourself. :)
Tacblades
04-02-2016, 17:27
I need a minimum of 5oz per sq yard to get to freezing, sometimes 7.5oz per sq yrd for apex
SilvrSurfr
04-02-2016, 19:22
Interesting that RBTR rates the Climashield APEX 2.5 at 50* F, yet 2.2 Climashield is listed here as capable of doing 32* F.
2.5 oz - 50* F
3.6 oz - 40* F
5.0 oz - 30* F
7.5 oz - 10* F
http://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/climashield-apex-2-5-oz-sq-yd
Somebody's either a really warm sleeper, or really cold. Hard to tell!
sunsetkayaker
04-02-2016, 19:35
[QUOTE=MacEntyre;1609087]Pictures really don't convey the gossamer feel to the Momentum10 fabric.
Momentum10 Baby Orca
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l257/MacEntyre/MMG%20Products/Momentum10%20Baby%20Orca_zpsnm6p2qmf.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/MacEntyre/media/MMG%20Products/Momentum10%20Baby%20Orca_zpsnm6p2qmf.jpg.html)
For a minute there I saw a whale tale on the right of this photo and thought you quilted a whale on your Orca. When I looked for the head, the picture came into focus and I realized it was just a black outside and white inside. I guess the whale quilt would have added extra weight, but the thought was cool.
MacEntyre
04-02-2016, 20:11
The variability between Temp Ratings and people's comfort levels is why lotsa folks are reluctant to do any ratings at all.
I don't think it would be inappropriate to call Klipspringer (formerly Thing1) and me outliers, but we have used Baby Orcas and Top Blankets made with CS 2.2 to freezing many times. Of course, we weren't sleeping in our skivvies. I don't recommend it, but there are others who have told me they were comfortable in the low 40s with 'em.
I would not limit CS Apex 2.2 to 50*F... that's silly!
But it's not winter gear. When temps get to freezing on a regular basis, or stay there for most of the night, I switch to down!
Whatever temp is your limit, your Shamu, Baby Orca and Top Blanket are going to be pretty light weight...
TFC Rick
04-02-2016, 21:57
Interesting that RBTR rates the Climashield APEX 2.5 at 50* F, yet 2.2 Climashield is listed here as capable of doing 32* F.
2.5 oz - 50* F
3.6 oz - 40* F
5.0 oz - 30* F
7.5 oz - 10* F
http://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/climashield-apex-2-5-oz-sq-yd
Somebody's either a really warm sleeper, or really cold. Hard to tell!
This is what I was going off of as well. I was very chilly with a 3.6 in ~30 degrees. No way 2.5 would have got me there.
MacEntyre
04-03-2016, 05:49
So, if'n ya know yer a cold sleeper, ask for our Custom MMG Climashield APEX (TM) 4.4... ;)
it has twice the amount of insulation as APEX 2.2, and
according to that chart, it will get ya to 30*F...
And it only costs a wee bit more!
Since the coverings are so light now, there's not much weight added when you double the insulation.
Temp ratings are pretty subjective for most folks. What works for some may not work for all.
In the case of a sleep system, no 2.2 probably would not be enough all by itself, and I think that is what the ratings are based on.
With the outer cover and inner lining both of those trap air from moving also.
I have used single layers down to 32 with other clothing, a hat, and jacket on and been pretty comfortable.
Would I go out knowing the low was projected to be below or at 32 for the whole weekend, NO. But if it did hit that for a night or 2, I would not worry.
It also makes quite a difference if you have been out for a week or so and adapted to the temps, much less insulation is needed after a time outdoors.
These are so light though that in summer weather when you really are going light are worth a look for sure.
I have a set of Hammock Gear 50 degree down quilts that I use in the summer, after 2 weeks on the trail it is no problem to push them to 35 or so, full frosty night, in New Hampshire, and a few others at elevation when I was on the AT.
I've used mine for several nights since getting it in the beginning of March. The first night out, it got down to 33*. I was wearing long John pants and a polyester hoodie. I was using both the shamu (full length under quilt) and the MMG top blanket. I did wake up a couple times feeling a bit of a chill, but an adjustment to the quilts put me back to sleep. To be perfectly honest, at that temperature, I would prefer a bit more insulation, but definitely wouldn't need double. And I could do it with just the Apex 2.2. The next couple nights were in the upper 40's. I slept those in t-shirt and gym shorts with no issue whatsoever.
Based on what I've seen around here, as well as my own testing, I'd say I'm about average - not a warm sleeper but not a cold sleeper. And I'd say the MMG quilts are easily 40* gear. I would personally be willing to carry them exclusively down to freezing, as long as I have relatively warm sleeping clothes. I'm getting the ratings given for the material on other sites are based on that being the only available insulation.
Just my .02. Can't beat the weight, packed size, or the price. I'm very happy with my Molly Mac Gear!
MacEntyre
04-12-2016, 20:37
I used 1.0 Robic to make a Molly Mac Gear Hammock Sock today for a young fellow who will spend the summer in Alaska...
it finished at exactly 10.0 oz!
A 1.4 silnylon Woodland Camo Gear Box comes in a 9 oz... camo is printed on heavier 1.4 nylon, and the ink adds a lot of weight.
A 1.1 silnylon black Gear Box comes in at about 5 oz, depending on what kind of string is used.
But a 1.1 Silpoly Gear Box, with the coreless parachute cord I have on hand, finishes at exactly 4.0 oz!
The 1.0 Robic Hammock Sock and the 1.1 Silpoly Gear Box together packed to about the same size as one of the old Hammock Socks made using 1.1 ripstop nylon.