Sleeping bags in hammock not getting proper appreciation [Archive] - Hammock Forums - Hammocks and hammock camping

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HappyCamper

12-20-2009, 10:10

Randy

12-20-2009, 10:18

Thats all I use in my hammocks, they work just fine with some sort of pad/insulation on the bottom side.

I have been able to do 19 degrees in my hammock with a sleeping bag and foam pad.

Yes, sleeping bags do not get enough credit.......

Randy

gargoyle

12-20-2009, 10:19

Sooo, does that mean you'll sell me your te-wa and mw4 for cheap? hmmm, huh, will ya?

I use my bag for now, but its too bulky to really pack around with. Comfort, warmth, are all there. But its a huge synthetic bag circa 1983, so you get the idea.

Shug

12-20-2009, 10:21

I agree ..... SB or TQ ...... they all work.
I agree that a TQ is not NEEDED ...... just like a UQ is not NEEDED ..... just fun and nice to have for we serious players of gear.
Not a matter of need ... it is a matter of want.
Shug

cooldays

12-20-2009, 10:24

I have to agree. I like tucking in a bag even a super light tiny one. like my 55 degree rei bag I use all the time. When the bag gets up over my shoulders to my neck and seals it makes a huge difference. It feels so goooooooood!

I will probably always use my bag that is almost just a bag liner even when I add a quilt to it for really cold nights.

Perkolady

12-20-2009, 10:32

I'd still use my bag if it gets below mid-teens. I just leave it zipped open like a quilt. :)

I agree, a TQ isn't something you really need.

Mustardman

12-20-2009, 10:33

I am a bag lover as well - if it's warm enough that I'm likely to need to vent, I can put the bag over top of me and use it like a quilt, and if it's pushing the temp limits of the bag, I can zip up inside, where I won't have to worry about drafts and I can use the hood.

And I don't care how much people praise the down hoods that velcro in place, there is NO WAY they are as warm as the 3 inches of loft surrounding everything but my nose and mouth when I've got the hood on my mummy bag cinched up.

For ultra cold weather, I don't ever see myself going to a top quilt. I might make one, for weight savings, for say 50+ degree weather, but when it's cold, give me a bag every time.

HappyCamper

12-20-2009, 10:45

Sooo, does that mean you'll sell me your te-wa and mw4 for cheap? hmmm, huh, will ya?

:laugh: what's the saying about prying out of my cold dead hands. I didn't clarify very well, just speaking about bags as topquilts. Love, love my underquilts!

And I do like the weight savings of topquilts, just sayin' if you are a newbie, you don't have to sell your bag immediately. Give the bag a try as topquilt.

oldgringo

12-20-2009, 10:47

I agree that once I get situated my mummy is the lap of luxury. I don't, however, enjoy cage fighting with the bag and zipper. I especially hate it @ 3am when I need to jump out/in quickly.

I just ordered a quilt.

G.L.P.

12-20-2009, 10:53

sleeping bag will work just fine as a top quilt ...but i like the packablity of a good down quilt

mbiraman

12-20-2009, 10:57

Mize

12-20-2009, 11:17

I have the full temperature range of light backpack bags from my ground dweller/sore back days and they work fine for me so far with a pad in the colder temps but I'm hoping there's an underquilt under the tree this year just to try something new and maybe eliminate the pad in colder temps ... I've been sleeping in a bag for so many years I don't see that I will eliminate them

lori

12-20-2009, 12:21

I went to quilts before I went to hammocks, because I hate sleeping bags with the burning passion of a raging claustrophobe. I don't mind tucking and re-tucking, or putting up with velcro, if it means I never have to fight with a zipper again. I also don't mind never going out in subzero weather because I hate being cold.

But that's just me.

trigger hurt

12-20-2009, 12:51

I use my snugpak 12*F sleeping bag all the time. It's warm and I've never really had any problems with it. The caveat is that I can't zip it up. I have to use it as a quilt. The footbox is sewn in, so I can get good and deep in there and my feet never come out.

My only real issue with it is the synthetic insulation. It weighs 5lbs. That's almost the same weight as my entire shelter put together, minus the bag. Great if I'm dragging a pulk or if I had one of them fancy roller packs, but I don't.

I wish I could get some more down added to my top quilt and get the footbox sewn together.

slowhike

12-20-2009, 12:58

pizza

12-20-2009, 13:13

It's true both work. If you have a good bag there is no reason not to use it. If you have nothing or are in the market for new top insulation I think quilts are the way to go in hammocks. I much prefer top quilts to bags. Not only is it a bit easier not having to deal with zippers I like carrying less bulk and weight in my pack. Drafts really aren't an issue with top quilts either if you are using a good fitting underquilt that wraps up around the sides of you. I was skeptical of TQ's before I got my JRB Old Rag Mountain but after using it several nights now I am convinced that they work great.

tiptoe

12-20-2009, 13:14

I'm pretty happy with my ems bag on ccf pads in a hennessey backpacker asym. it's really not that big a deal to get into the bag and get comfy. Once I am, it's like being in a little draft-free nest.

Mustardman

12-20-2009, 13:19

I've seen several folks make the "if you've got a bag might as well use it" argument.

I want to be perfectly clear on where *I* stand on this one....

I prefer mummy bags for colder weather. Given a choice, I will zip up inside every time when it started getting really cold.

If it's 40 or 50, sure, a top quilt is fine, but if I'm below freezing, I want that cocoon wrapped around me and sealed up even if I roll onto my side or move my legs around.

lori

12-20-2009, 13:26

If it's 40 or 50, sure, a top quilt is fine, but if I'm below freezing, I want that cocoon wrapped around me and sealed up even if I roll onto my side or move my legs around.

I figured I would add what I consider cold - I'm comfortable into the low 20F range in the quilts. I start to add clothing at 50F around camp, and am generally a cold sleeper, but the 3 season JRB quilts only start to feel not-warm around 22-24F for me. I'd probably be actually cold around 20F... Since I sleep in a midweight base layer I would probably be able to extend the range of the quilts by layering up clothing with the quilts.

Pastorus

12-20-2009, 13:36

The patter of rain on my tarp woke me up this morning. My WM Megalite bag was a quilt all night. Crawling back into the hammock at 0630 after a chili nature stroll called for the zippered snuggle power of the bag.

The zipper doesn't bother me as a quilt and I like the option. I would switch to quilt in the summer if it saved a bunch of weight.

DuctTape

12-20-2009, 14:00

I use both SB's and TQ's when the situation warrants it. For me, this is not an either/or proposition, it is a when. I have learned to use my SB very well, it isn't difficult to get situated. For me, it is actually a bit easier than situating a TQ. The TQ is great for weight savings, or for supplementing the SB. this is where it really shines IMHO. I have 2 different SB's and a TQ, I use them all at different times and sometimes a SB/TQ in conjunction. As will most things it is about the system, not the individual item.

dT

Festus Hagen

12-20-2009, 14:41

Yeah, I only use SB's for the moment, and like them a lot. My Eureka Casper mummy bag can be a struggle to zip in, but if it's cold enough, I get it done :D

Camping last night on the AT I used a zero bag AND a DD (Snugpak) UQ and felt great in a breezy, snowy 19F. Using both a SB and UQ makes plenty of sense.

I do need better backpacking sleeping gear (The Casper is the only bag I have that is tolerable to pack and carry) but I may stick with sleeping bags except for UL summer stuff where I think a quilt would shine.

Gailainne

12-20-2009, 14:44

I still use sleeping bags, mostly because I have them already and I have a bag for all seasons, they are all down, and I use them as a quilt in warmer weather, and zip them up when it gets cooler, switching them out as the seasons change.

Plus I still do a lot of ground camping, a lot of Scotland has lost its forest, which is why I still have a exped down sleeping mat as well. Like the saying goes "Any fool can be uncomfortable camping" I like to be prepared :D

E.A.Y.

12-20-2009, 14:50

When I replaced my ancient Snow Lion poly bag, I sought out a (down) sleeping bag that had an almost full length zipper, since at the time I was exploring tarp tents and sleeping (on the ground) under a quilt.
Now that I hammock, I find that I like having an "unescapable" foot box to tuck my feet into. And I don't mind carrying some extra ounces for the greater coverage a sleeping bag gives me. I never use the zipper since I, like lori, dislike the claustrophobic feeling of a bag.

Carolinahammockhanger

12-20-2009, 14:59

Simple for me. Sleeping bags can be used for all types of camping and crashing at friends, underquilts only for hammocks. And I already had em.

BillyBob58

12-20-2009, 15:41

How many bag users out there think sleeping bags are not getting the proper appreciation on HF? Newbies get the impression that they just can't use them at all. That they have to immediately sell their bags and have a top quilt. While I do admit in a bottom loader they can be a bit of a pain. But in a top loader during cold, cold temps, I appreciate that I'm not constantly tucking and fighting icy drafts when I move around which is quite a bit. Yeah, it takes a little shifting to get the zipper up but then I'm good to go. Is it because I have a full zipper on my bag that I don't think it's such a big deal to always have a quilt?

I know I'm probably in minority, but certainly I'm not the only bag believer on this forum. :confused:

No, you are definitely not the only bag advocate. I have long argued that when it comes down to pushing a quilt to it's limits, that a bag( especially mummy bag) of equal top thickness- or maybe less thickness- will be noticeably warmer when used as a bag.

But the dif may not be so noticeable if using a quilt designed as such from the get go, as opposed to using a mummy bag quilt style. Especially if the quilt has some sort of neck closure system to allow it to "seal" around the shoulders. And in addition, if the quilt is wide enough for the individual.

Now I realize many folks feel that a mummy bag used as a quilt will be even warmer. Because you won't waste insulation under your body, and it will some how add to what is on top where you need it. OK, if that's how it works for them, but that simply has not been my experience. More than once I have been cold trying to use my 62" wide mummy bag as a quilt, at temps well above it's lowest rating. Only to become toasty warm when getting inside and zipping up.

I think it's all about drafts and head neck protection. There really are no drafts inside a sleeping bag with hood and neck collar. Under even a wide quilt, you must make sure all is tucked just right. And then if there is any movement while asleep possibly opening up a draft area, you wake up cold. Every time you roll over you have to make sure that skill is done correctly! ;) That's right, rolling over becomes a skill! I find that when I use a quilt, I am always concentrating on getting things tucked correctly and keeping them that way. I don't really have to think about that once I am in a bag.

As I recently stated on another thread, I think one reason the Pea Pod has worked so well for most folks is because it is just a big sleeping bag, one where the bottom insulation is not flattened by body weight. As long as you deal with the hammock maybe lifting the pod off your body, there are no draft issues, unless you want a draft on purpose.

But having said all of that, there is still much to be said for a quilt and I go that route almost always. IF the quilt is wide(and long) enough for your body size and IF you have head protection equal to a mummy bag and IF the quilt can be closed around your neck and shoulders, well then I think it can be really close or equal warmth to a bag of same thickness. The only thing is you still have to deal with is loosing heat to a draft when you move, and that is a learned trick. But, if you take care of the above and are warm, then the quilt is just so much more convenient to use inside a hammock. Especially for beginners, it took me a while to learn how to get in my bag in a hammock! :scared:

One other thing with a quilt is to make sure your under and side insulation overlaps with the top on the sides/edges. Like the way the MWUQ wraps around my sides, particularly with the BMBH. That might be a little more important with a quilt than with a bag which is already well wrapped around your sides even after you move some.

But if a person can manage to get inside their bag in a hammock, and that effort does not bother them much ( another learned skill), then I see only one reason to go with a quilt. The same reason a ground dweller would: weight. If that is not that important to a person, and you can get in your bag easily enough for you, then save your money and use your bag. Use it quilt style or bag style when really cold. :D

BillyBob58

12-20-2009, 15:48

And I don't care how much people praise the down hoods that velcro in place, there is NO WAY they are as warm as the 3 inches of loft surrounding everything but my nose and mouth when I've got the hood on my mummy bag cinched up......

If it is really cold, and I am using my quilt, I use a separate Marmot sleeping bag hood..... Whooobuddy! It is several inches thick and cinches down to a blow hole. I have had adding that to my quilt make a huge difference, even though I was already using a fleece hat covered with the light Polarguard hood on my jacket.

BillyBob58

12-20-2009, 15:57

pizza

12-20-2009, 17:44

I've seen several folks make the "if you've got a bag might as well use it" argument.
Really, I think I was the only one that commented similar to that and it wasn't meant as an "argument" at all.

I want to be perfectly clear on where *I* stand on this one....
I think you were perfectly clear in your original post but thanks for telling us again though.

BillyBob58

12-20-2009, 17:47

http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/2/2/9/img_2338_thumb.jpg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=8039&c=13)

But seriously, on the subject of bags pros and cons vs quilts, and on the subject of drafts, there is this approach, the above laying on my back with head out, in this next on my side with a breathing hole:
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/2/2/9/img_2333_thumb.jpg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=8040&c=13)

Obviously with head out of the pod, a hood or stout hat/balaclava would be needed, and would also be needed to prevent Velcro from scratching your face. I most often don't need a hood if completely in the pod with small breathing holes.

sir_n0thing

12-20-2009, 17:49

I am a bag user simply because that's all I have... That said, I do like the comfy, wrapped up feeling of being in my bag with the hood up. It's a nice cozy feeling. I'm one of those guys who likes feeling rapped up, the concept of shoulder-squeeze in a gathered end hammock doesn't bother me and I don't feel claustrophobic at all. Yeah, it's a bit of a wrangle to get zipped in to the bag inside a hammock, but it's not THAT bad. It's an extra 30 seconds of fooling around.
I'd like to try a top quilt some day to compare the two for myself. Shug always looks all happy in that black monster he's got himself! ;)

Mustardman

12-20-2009, 18:02

Really, I think I was the only one that commented similar to that and it wasn't meant as an "argument" at all.

This isn't the first time we've had this discussion around here ;)

gRaFFiX

12-20-2009, 19:09

TiredFeet

12-20-2009, 19:25

I have nothing against bags, but mummy bags and I just do NOT agree with each other.

When I was young, a mummy bag didn't bother me. Used nothing but an Army surplus bag - it was all my Dad would afford.

For some reason, the last 10 years or so, just the thought of my arms trapped inside a mummy bag and searching for the zipper is enough to make me never want to see another mummy bag. It still mystifies me why the change. I am not now nor was then claustrophobic ( I love this built-in spell checker :lol:).

Rectangular don't bother me.

So, sleeping bags are okay, I just prefer quilts.

opie

12-20-2009, 20:43

I believe Big Agnes makes all of their summer SB's with no bottom insulation; just a thin layer of ripstop. They claim it cuts weight and eliminates drafts that ultralite TQ's sometimes have. They have also shown that the insulation in all sleeping bags are compressed, similar to hammocks, against a sleeping pad, and therefore, it is unecessary to add it to the bag.

Scroll down to the first "description" (http://www.rei.com/product/763890)
This is an example of one of their bags.

Not exactly sure what the weight savings/comfort/warmth of their bags are as I've done no research, but I had considered them at one point after finding out about hammocking and the need for an UQ.

Not sure what value anyone will get from this, but I just thought I'd share.

BA makes their bags with a sleeve to slide a pad in. For the reason you stated that the insulation just gets compressed... So they made the underside a sleeve so you wont roll off the pad.

I have 2 of the Buffalo Park bags. Zipped together with a fleece liner, they were good down to 32 with me only wearing skivvies. Im a warm sleeper though.

Just Jeff

12-20-2009, 21:18

I still use a sleeping bag sometimes...usually when I'm outfitting a few folks for a trip. I like to use the SD Wicked Fast, sometimes with the JRB Nest over top for colder weather. I love the hood on the Wicked Fast, and I think a sleeping bag hood helps share heat between body and head.

I don't find it hard to get inside the bag any more...just a technique to get down. Spend about as much time situating the bag as I do situating the quilt. A couple of times I had to look for the zipper during the night, b/c it's all the way on the side. That's why I was looking at the Nanutak center zip bag for a while. Ended up testing the MWUQ4 instead of buying that bag, though...love the MWUQ4 as well.

Re: the Big Agnes bags, I had one for Joker when he was younger. It's a good idea, even though they use heavy materials so the final weights are higher than comparable bags from other (generally more expensive) manufacturers. And it solves the "staying on the pad in a hammock" problem. The only real critique I could offer for BA bags is that a thick or wide pad in the sleeve can pull the edges of the bag away from the body, creating an air gap down the sides of the body. Draft tubes inside the bag at the pad/sleeve intersection may help.

oldgringo

12-21-2009, 00:03

I have a BA...works okay, but I'm finding that I really don't like pads. Also, since only half of the bag is insulated, its awfully skimpy when used in the quilt mode.

srestrepo

12-21-2009, 02:00

i love my mummy in the hammock!!
http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/3/6/5/5/bulls_bridge_006_thumb.jpg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=8021&c=member&orderby=title&direction=ASC&imageuser=3655&cutoffdate=-1)

pgibson

12-21-2009, 05:47

I think both have a place in the hammock or other wise. But one or two thoughts on the quilt issue. First off, sleeping bags can be readily had for 30 bucks on up, sky is the limit, but they start out very cheap from any place as basic of camping gear as what Walmart has. Quilts though start off at $200 or so....right? For some it's just simple economics. Lots of us love our quilts and spend a lot of time touting the benefits in a hammock, we have had a hundred conversations about that so I will skip it here. But there are pluses for sure. On the other hand lots of folks that want to get into hammocking are looking at the list we set before them and I am sure (cause I was) get overwhelmed. It is more than just grabbing a hammock and heading out to the woods, there are dozens of hammocks to chose from, even more options for tarps, suspensions, pads, quilts, guyline, stakes, carabiners, dutch clips, beaks, toggles, 1000 abbreviations to rap you head around -UCRHHDDWBBBJRBUQYMMVENOOESAHEBBOBMBHSPEIXTQ2QBB58 and the list goes on. Before getting into hanging I had a full set of top of the line groundling gear, actually several sets. I was actually working on selling off some of that gear as it was starting to get a bit dated. Then hammocking came up and well there just was not much in the budget to get a hole new system so I had to start slow and build up. One of the big things was a new bag, I had planned to buy a nice new light bag this spring, almost did a couple times. But then I got interested in using a hammock and well the Top quilt lust grabbed me and I pulled a 180 from what I had been planning and saved some more, and with some luck made a dealer price match and got a decent deal on a Golite. But like I said lots of folks just don't have a couple hundred dollars for a top quilt, and like Happy Camper brought up here we tend to...push is not the right word...but talk a lot about top quilts and less about bags. So many folks think that is the way to go. I like mine for sure and I know a lot of others do as well but there seems like there is not much on the market for a budget limited person for quilts.

So lets say Hypothetically speaking, there were an option in the ?125?-?150?-?175? range - maybe down, maybe 600-700 fill rather than 800-900 would more people be able to get into a quilt? Would it be beneficial to the hammock/backpacking community or would it just piss off a bunch of great vendors that make some excellent gear? Just thinking out loud here, not saying a $150 top quilt is a reality this week or next, just exploring the bag to TQ thinking.

Paul

drewboy

12-21-2009, 07:56

When getting newbies into hammocking, I almost always recommend that they use their SB in quilt mode initially and focus their purchases on other more essential items. Their dollars are better spent on a bottom quilt in terms of having a good initial hanging experience. Eventually as the hook gets set they will end up having three of everything, including top quilts, just like the other sick people around here. :-)

bear bag hanger

12-21-2009, 08:00

"maybe 600-700 fill rather than 800-900"

My experience is that you may as well go to synthetic fill as opposed to 600-700 fill down. The 800+ fill down seems to work pretty good and keep things light.

Another question - I was looking around for a bag that has a non-fill bottom with a pocket for a pad. I remember a couple years ago most sleeping bag suppliers had a model capable of this, but at this time they don't seem to be available anymore. I'm guessing they didn't sell enough to keep them, but I'd sort of like to experiment with something like that now. Any idea where I can find one now?

HappyCamper

12-21-2009, 08:07

When getting newbies into hammocking, I almost always recommend that they use their SB in quilt mode initially and focus their purchases on other more essential items.

Yep, that's the take-away I'd like new people to get from this thread. Hammocking can be pricy and an addiction IF you want it to be. But you can take your time and use much of your tent camping gear to begin with. You may find that you don't have to buy as much stuff as you first thought. There's lots of options.

JerryW

12-21-2009, 09:04

Another question - I was looking around for a bag that has a non-fill bottom with a pocket for a pad. I remember a couple years ago most sleeping bag suppliers had a model capable of this, but at this time they don't seem to be available anymore. I'm guessing they didn't sell enough to keep them, but I'd sort of like to experiment with something like that now. Any idea where I can find one now?

I think Big Agnes (http://www.bigagnes.com/) is one of the only companies doing this. All of their bags are made this way.

Jerry

Just Jeff

12-21-2009, 09:31

Yep, that's the take-away I'd like new people to get from this thread. Hammocking can be pricy and an addiction IF you want it to be. But you can take your time and use much of your tent camping gear to begin with. You may find that you don't have to buy as much stuff as you first thought. There's lots of options.

SGT Rock on hikinghq.net had a challenge to create an entire lightweight backpacking kit, including hammock and insulation, for under $300. Several very workable solutions came out of it, and most of the gear was normal stuff that any camper would already have.

I think he even had a $200 challenge after that.

Just like normal camping...it can be as expensive and complicated as you want it to be. Otherwise, all you need is insulation on top and bottom, and protection from the weather.

12-21-2009, 09:49

What a great thread! Many well reasoned contributions.
I'm seriously thinking of modifying my down sleeping bag - making it narrower and removing the zipper - because I now use it only as a quilt, but I recall zipping it up at temps below freezing when I first started hanging. I've learned how to use it, I guess. One drawback is the placement of the hood; it's off to the side when the bag is opened out to make a quilt. I usually put a down vest over my right shoulder (the side away from the hood) to prevent drafts on my neck and shoulder. It seems to stay in place okay.
However, I made a lightweight synthetic TQ with a hood, and it works so well that I'll eventually make a winter version (which should be significantly lighter than my sleeping bag, even after planned modifications. How does a TQ with a hood work? Simple - the hood is attached only at the edges, so there is a slit across the quilt at the level of my neck. I pull the quilt up and put my head through the slit, so the quilt is on top of me up to my chin and the hood is below my head. For the summer quilt, the hood is just a flap with a rounded top edge. I can tighten the drawstring to form a hood or just fold it under to use it as a pillow. For the winter quilt, I'll also fold the edges back 4 or 5 inches and sew them to form pockets that will fit over my shoulders. The hood will attach where the pockets end.

Mrprez

12-21-2009, 09:53

Rat

12-21-2009, 09:59

With the exception of my Segmented Pad Extender, everything I use in my hammock I used on the ground. For that matter, I could have gotten away with just buying a hammock as I already had a tarp (or two) as well. I have a 15° bag, down on top, synthetic on the bottom, mummy. Above freezing I use it as a quilt, below I use it as a bag.

Back in the day I tried to build a few different quilt/pods (anyone remember Frankenpod?), but until I stop spending money on other things and buy an underquilt I will use my sleeping bags.

I think, in the spirit of the original post, that bags don't get the same face time as underquilts and topquilts simply because they are not constantly being redesigned by many different people. There is no doubt that insulation has been the greatest challenge for hammockers, and the challenge has been met admirably. I mean, we used to sleep on windshield reflectors for crying out loud!

Dreaming of quilts but using bags because they work. Someday tho...

Mrprez

12-21-2009, 10:04

Ahhh, those were the days!

tlbj6142

12-21-2009, 10:18

Newbies get the impression that they just can't use them at all. That they have to immediately sell their bags and have a top quilt. The same could be said for Whoopie slings. Any noob reading this board for the first time would get quite a few "impressions" that are entirely incorrect. But, that's life on a hobbyist forum filled with frenzied posters.

FWIW, I made my own down quilt years ago and love it. I also own a WM MityLite and a BA ??? (too lazy to look up the name now). None of them have hoods. I use one, or a combination of, a bpl cocoon balaclava, a thin polypro balaclava, thin polypro hat, slightly thicker wool balaclava and/or a windstopper balaclava depending on expected temps.

oldgringo

12-21-2009, 10:24

It's all about the frenzied pursuit of The Next New Thing. Mea culpa, btw.

Rilmoigan

12-21-2009, 11:05

I have a military surplus modular sleep system (20-degree bag, 0-degree bag, vapor-barrier/cover) which I use with different bags as a TQ, depending on the weather. I did realize on the Bull's Bridge trip this weekend that the bag cover actually keeps the bag from working well in conjuction with a standard TQ, so I'm eliminating that from the setup.

That said, the combination of the 0-degree bag (in quilt-mode), Old Rag Mtn TQ and the Winter Nest UQ got me through a Maine snowstorm in great comfort, for what's worth to y'all.

I'm going to try using just a silk bag liner and the JRB quilt combo to see how that works as well.

12-21-2009, 12:02

How does a TQ with a hood work? Simple - the hood is attached only at the edges, so there is a slit across the quilt at the level of my neck. I pull the quilt up and put my head through the slit, so the quilt is on top of me up to my chin and the hood is below my head. For the summer quilt, the hood is just a flap with a rounded top edge. I can tighten the drawstring to form a hood or just fold it under to use it as a pillow.

That's a clever idea! No problems waking up and feeling choked?

Not so far. The slit is almost the full width of the TQ. Remember, I've only used this in the summer, so most of the time the hood is just a pillow. But there was one night in July when the temp was around 40, and I was very glad I had a hood.

HappyCamper

12-21-2009, 12:29

I think, in the spirit of the original post, that bags don't get the same face time as underquilts and topquilts simply because they are not constantly being redesigned by many different people.

Excellent point. We have so many DIYers here there is always something new being discussed, esp quilts. Even on this thread, ie WVHammockmaker. :D

WVHammockmaker, you gotta start a thread about your DIY quilt and post some pictures, preferably with you in the quilt and hood. Sounds very interesting indeed.

Just Jeff

12-22-2009, 07:23

Moving this thread to the new Top Insulation forum...b/c that why we created the forum! :jj:

oldgringo

12-22-2009, 07:34

Thank you!:)

CajunHiker

12-22-2009, 10:58

I've got a BA Yampa and an Exped 7 Short. I decided to go with this setup due to most of my camping is with the scouts and I needed to be able to go to g (g2g) when necessary. Fortunately, I haven't had to do that yet.

Things that I've found using this setup.
1) Relatively easy to get in the bag & zip up (left zipper).
2) Due to the stiffness of the Exped, it's difficult to cinch up the top opening.
3) When pad is fully inflated, provides ample warmth underneath but can create cold spots along the sides where bag & pad meet.

I've been using a Walmart fleece that seems to help with the cold spots.

What I need now, it to get a hood that will cinch up and also provide coverage for my shoulders. Well, what I really need is BA's latest down mummy but I can't afford that right now.

Highstrung

12-23-2009, 06:32

Does anyone else put their pad inside their sleeping bag? I use a HH BUL with a Mountain Hardware Piute 20 with a thermarest prolite 4. I make sure it's not fully inflated. That helps it not to ruin the best part of using a hammock, the comfort. I stay warm and toasty.

Triptease

12-23-2009, 12:15

I also use both depending on the circumstances. Down to about 35 or so, I use a Golite Ultra 20. Beyond that, down to 15 I'll use my Marmot Helium SB unzipped as a quilt. The thing is so large and roomy that it produces almost 6-7" of loft due to the extra fabric around the sides that rests on top of me. It is plenty wide enough that I can roll around in the hammock and I won't get a cold spot in the middle of the night. If it goes below 15 then I'll double up the Helium and the Ultra... but I usually don't make it out much in those temps.

12-23-2009, 12:20

I use my Luxury Lite 25 deg down bag with center zipper. This way I can open it up like a TQ and zip up around my legs. Or, use as a regular sleeping bag. Used this with pad down to 15 degrees no problem.

HappyCamper

12-23-2009, 13:07

Hi Cookie & cody1786, welcome to the forum!

sir_n0thing

12-23-2009, 19:10

So lets say Hypothetically speaking, there were an option in the ?125?-?150?-?175? range - maybe down, maybe 600-700 fill rather than 800-900 would more people be able to get into a quilt? Would it be beneficial to the hammock/backpacking community or would it just piss off a bunch of great vendors that make some excellent gear? Just thinking out loud here, not saying a $150 top quilt is a reality this week or next, just exploring the bag to TQ thinking.

Paul

If there was a "low end" option I'd be more inclined to try out a TQ for sure. The list of gear I will someday own is a mile long, just like most of us I'm sure. ;) BUT... It's hard to justify spending $200-300 or even more when I already own 4 sleeping bags! Plus, I got my bags at REI scratch-n-dent sales at unreal prices ($40 for a 15° down bag in perfect condition? SCORE!). I'd be happy to buy a TQ at an REI sale for $40... unfortunately, I'll likely never see a TQ at an REI sale.

I think the cost is why DIY quilts seem to be pretty popular. If you have the sewing skill and the patience, you can make your own for what, half the cost of retail?

Take-a-knee

12-23-2009, 19:25

I just stumbled on this thread and quickly scanned it. I can't believe no one has mentioned the ULTIMATE HAMMOCK BAG, the Feathered Friends Winter Wren. The ultimate hammock bag would be ordered with a zipper of 50 or so inches (36 is standard) to enable it's use as a quilt in warmer climes, and with an overstuff of two ounces or so. This bag should take most sleepers to 15 F with a proper UQ. In temps above 35 or so, there is no reason not to use a top quilt like a No Sniveler, IMO. When you start getting way below freezing , the bag may have the edge. I hope to get to compare my Winter Wren to the RM No Sniveler this coming winter.

drewboy

12-23-2009, 21:33

Keep an eye out for killer sales. I got a Golite Ultra 20 quilt for $135 at a sale that Golite had earlier this year. I'm sure that it won't be the last.

Garden hammock

12-24-2009, 01:10

I still use a bag too, but I've never really gone anywhere with my camping hammock which can test out how far a bag can go... Could a bag be used in adverse winter conditions? Or would all the other stuff i would need just mean that i might as well get a quilt set up going?

bonsaihiker

12-24-2009, 14:40

I've been using sleeping bags as quilts since I was a kid--just found it more roomy and comfortable when the temps aren't too frigid. Therefore, using it in this mode was pretty intuitive for me. OTOH, like many others on this thread, I like the versatility of climbing inside and zipping up. There's been more than a few nights where I've been very glad to have this option available. I like lightweight and simple, but I hate drafts.

patriothomer

12-24-2009, 22:43

It's hard to justify spending $200-300 or even more when I already own 4 sleeping bags!

Amen to that, my friend. I spent this year's "Christmas for Daddy" fund on the hammock and new tarp, so an UQ is not currently an option. Picked up a couple of 30* bags from boy scout store online for $9.99 each and will go from there.

Trout

12-25-2009, 05:27

I've greatly enjoyed this thread. I dream of the WB hammock and underquilts.

MedicineMan

12-25-2009, 06:24

I'm like Lori in that I'd switched out to a TQ before I switched to hanging..I had to carry a pad any way so why carry the useless bottom of a sleeping bag? I did use a sleeping bag once 2 weeks ago because my TQ was shipped off for review. I chose a WM Versalite and enjoyed all the loft it had because I used the whole thing as a TQ since I had a UQ under the mock.

BigB

12-25-2009, 06:43

Sleeping bags work fine as tq's. However, the same hood that feels nice when your in the bag gets annoying when used as a quilt. IMO.

Hangin'Yankee

12-27-2009, 02:55

There's certainly something good to be said about both...
a sleeping bag & 0 drafts
and a top quilt & it's weight savings & freedom of movement & ease of use.

That's why I keep thinking about a "best of both" design:)

I think that I have the "best of both" with my WM Ultralite as it can be used as a quilt with a foot box or a full mummy and it's still very light.

I do prefer using my bag as a quilt as sometimes the confinement of the bag is a bit too tight but it's definitely warm in that mode.

In the end it's a matter of preference. Whatever you choose, get out and enjoy it! :D

Randy

PA Pathfinder

12-28-2009, 02:39

First off lots of good opinions and information here as a newbie in the process of figuring my hammock set up and what fits my budget. I have thought of of something I hear a common thing of the issue of ease of zippering a SB. What about tying a piece of cording to the zipper so once in the bag and in your hammock you can easily just grab the cord and pull the zipper:mellow: I been camping in tents since being in scouts and always have had sleeping bags so if i could save s few bucks and use it that would be awesome. Also another thought what about using Mil Surplus Quilts as an underquilt they are cheap and easy to get all one would have to do is get some webbing and sew a few loops on as a mounting system. Here is a link to the ones im thinking of getting and trying http://www.majorsurplus.com/GI-Style-Quilts-P13488C2085.aspx

Just a few thoughts from a newbie any thoughts would be appricated I will eventually make a posting on my ideas for my hammock rig but still figuring a few things out before I make a "final plan" of what I m going to want and would like.

Mike:D

HappyCamper

12-28-2009, 08:54

Hi PA Pathfinder. Yep, quite a few people make sleeping bags into underquilts. For car camping a lot of sleeping bags will work as underquilts. But for backpacking, most will go to the underquilts made by our cottage industry guys on this forum because they compress small for your backpack and are much lighter.

I was looking for some of the DIY links but didn't find all the ones I was looking for, but here's a sample. (http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11035) Hopeful some others will post you links.

I like the idea of putting a longer cord on the zipper of sb to make it easier to find and zip!

Just Jeff

12-28-2009, 09:01

The problem with zipping a sleeping bag in the hammock isn't finding the zipper, it's getting inside the bag and getting the zipper sides lined up so it can be zipped. I think adding a string will help finding and pullling, but you'll still have to dance around a bit to get everything lined up. Not a huge issue for me so I still occasionally use a sleeping bag, but some people complain about it. Surely isn't as simple as throwing a top quilt over you.

Those quilts would work. You'll have to put some kind of cinching mechanism on the ends to snug them up to your head and feet, in addition to the hanging loops. JRB probably has the easiest solution to that...drawstring channels on each end, with cordlocks at each corner and in the center of the foot side and head side.

Just Jeff

12-28-2009, 09:02

This thread was a great idea, HappyCamper. Gonna make it a sticky so newbies don't think top quilts are the only way to go, simply b/c most of the threads here are on top quilts.

J_Squared

12-28-2009, 09:54

Keep an eye out for killer sales. I got a Golite Ultra 20 quilt for $135 at a sale that Golite had earlier this year. I'm sure that it won't be the last.

I frequently see this quilt on sale but I'm a little confused at the length. I always see a short option only. Is this the only way it comes? From what I found on the Golite website short is the only length. Is it designed to be supplemented with a jacket for upper body insulation? I'm 6-4 so I shy away from anything published with the length as short but I could be sold by getting dual use from a down jacket as part of my sleep system. Wouldn't be much weight savings if I had to carry a down jacket in spring/fall though.

J_Squared

12-28-2009, 09:59

Sleeping bags work fine as tq's. However, the same hood that feels nice when your in the bag gets annoying when used as a quilt. IMO.

I agree. Extra weight to carry without any use as well. I'll typically use my bag as a quilt with the hood to the side and wear a hat. I was going to need a hat around camp anyway so its not really extra weight. The sleeping bag hood OTOH is useless extra weight IMHO.

I can't stand the knee constriction of the mummy bag so I always use the bag in quilt mode. Plus, in quilt mode you can go way beyond the temp rating due to all the extra material piled up on top of you.

drewboy

12-28-2009, 10:22

I'm around 5'10" in height and find my ultra 20 length to be just adequate, without a lot of extra margin. I like to be able to pull my quilt over my mouth and nose if necessary. At 6'4" I would be concerned about the length. I also would not rely solely on this quilt for warmth at temps below the mid 30's without supplementing with other worn insulation. There seems to be fairly universal agreement around here that the Ultra 20 does not deserve the rating that Golite gives it. With all that said, I do really like the quilt and it's my go-to piece of gear for 3 season camping.

I frequently see this quilt on sale but I'm a little confused at the length. I always see a short option only. Is this the only way it comes? From what I found on the Golite website short is the only length. Is it designed to be supplemented with a jacket for upper body insulation? I'm 6-4 so I shy away from anything published with the length as short but I could be sold by getting dual use from a down jacket as part of my sleep system. Wouldn't be much weight savings if I had to carry a down jacket in spring/fall though.

ice man

12-28-2009, 10:38

O K, now I admit to being a newby at this hangin' around stuff, and mostly use it for when it's blazin' hot out. Now, I got a question....Do you stand up and "put the bag on" then lay down in the hammock, or put the bag in the hammock and fight your way into it?

Cannibal

12-28-2009, 10:43

Ya know, I avoided reading this thread cause I thought "Eh, another sleeping bag vs. quilt thread. Who cares?" But, wow are there some passionate folks about their bags. Almost makes me wish I still had a few. :rolleyes::D

I'm lucky, I guess. After a few years of using hammocks, I still sleep like a motionless log in them. I don't worry about tucking anything except a certain something after a midnight calling. When I first got into this hammock camping thang I had a couple of old bags laying around. I hadn't been camping, much less hiking, in many years at that point; save a few beer drowned camping trips with hooligan friends. They weren't of the best quality, but they were respectable in their day and they filled the initial need. What got me into quilts? My first camping hammock; it was a Hennessy. Oh the joy and elation of the bag and pad dance in a Hennessy. That glorious feeling of accomplishment when after an hour of struggling, I finally found comfort. Oh yeah, that was the life for me.

Once I started reading about quilts, it just made perfect sense. I'd been using blankets for years to sleep and considered myself an expert in their use. The simple addition of insulation wasn't bound to complicate things too much in my mind. Sure enough, I excelled in the art of quilt use and quickly realized their benefits. Such as the previously mentioned 'tucking' in the wee-wee hours. How many of the fellas here have had the "zipper experience" in their lives? I bet the ones that have remember it well. Probably even remember what you had for lunch on that fateful day. Well, the notion of that happening with the heavy duty zippers on sleeping bags, heh, no thanks! With a quilt, it's just a simple lift of the quilt and lean out of the hammock; getting re-situated is child's play.

The quilt provides everything the bag cannot. "Mummy bags are warmer". What gives you that idea? The footbox of my quilts forms the same shape as the footbox of a mummy bag, thereby providing the same heat retention in a confined space. My underquilt serves to seal the deal around the edges and shoulders; it even conforms to my shape. I'll give a nod to those who are restless sleepers and find themselves requiring a tuck here and there, but since I'm not one of those people, I can't really relate.

My quilts have no zippers to damage me or my hammocks. I never have to struggle to get under my quilt and more importantly, I can be up and out of my hammock in a flash if need be; no searching for a zipper and hoping it doesn't catch on the bag's fabric shell while the Bogeyman stalks me from the edges of my campsite. :scared:

All in all, for me, there is really no comparison. I don't see myself ever going back to sleeping bags. I have yet to find myself out in frigid temps saying "Boy, I sure wish I had a sleeping bag" or "I wish I had to expend more energy getting into my hammock". Do sleeping bags work for hammocks? Of course they do. Do washboards work for cleaning your clothing? Yep! Do you want to trade your washing machine in for one, probably not. I feel the same way about my quilts vs. sleeping bags.

Everybody is entitled to opinions and this was mine. :D

oldgringo

12-28-2009, 12:10

The problem with zipping a sleeping bag in the hammock isn't finding the zipper, it's getting inside the bag and getting the zipper sides lined up so it can be zipped. I think adding a string will help finding and pullling, but you'll still have to dance around a bit to get everything lined up.

I put a drop of hot glue on the zipper track about an inch from the bottom so it won't unzip all the way and separate. That helped a bunch.:)

From that point on though, zippers are a pita. Not only do the tracks have to be somewhat matched up, tension needs to be maintained from the already zipped portion. And then, there's the whole zipper snagging deal...flesh and fabric.:scared:

A note: El Cheapo Coleman bags have solved the snag...they have a little plastic gizmo they call a zipper plow that pushes fabric away from the zipper. Simple, cheap, and it works.

Highstrung

12-29-2009, 01:43

Cannibal

12-29-2009, 10:07

I think the weights would be pretty close because a combination of topquilt and underquilt will use roughly the same amount of materials as a bag. The quilts will be a little heavier because of the required suspension for an underquilt, but I doubt the differences would be great. Course, I use the torso length underquilts so I've probably got a lesser combined weight.

Festus Hagen

12-29-2009, 10:12

I use both a SB and UQ so I save nothin' in regards to weight...

oldgringo

12-29-2009, 10:17

I use both a SB and UQ so I save nothin' in regards to weight...

Yup.

Nothing succeeds like excess.:D

Just Jeff

12-29-2009, 10:42

Haha - no kill like an overkill. Sometimes I use both as well.

Mustardman

12-29-2009, 12:17

Do you find that the weights of two quilts are lower/higher/equalt to the sleeping bag? Also, does it pack down the same? Of couse, I'm asking in general. I know there are wide varieties of insulation, fabrics, fills and cuts, so just an opinion would help me understand. I'm debating "quilting out" my sleep system.

This isn't really the right question to be asking, though - with a sleeping bag, you will still need some sort of insulation underneath you, whether that is a pad or an underquilt.

A better question to ask is - how does the weight of a top quilt (generally wider than half of a sleeping bag) plus an underquilt (ditto) compare to a sleeping bag plus a pad, or how does the tq/uq combo compare to a sleeping bag plus an uq.

Obviously, the tq/uq will beat the sleeping bag/uq combo, but the sleeping bag/pad combo isn't quite as obvious, as there are some pretty crazy light pads out there that provide a heck of a lot of insulation.

oldgringo

12-29-2009, 17:40

That center-zip GI bag that Randy posted this morning has shuffled my deck.

Not that I want an 8# bag, but that center zipper would go a looooooooong way towards taking the hassle out of a bag.

Doctari

12-29-2009, 19:15

Don't "Need" a hammock, slept on the ground for 50 years. (first camping trip I was 6 months old)
Having a hammock, I don't "Need" a ring buckle suspension, tying a knot worked.
Don't "Need" an underquilt, the pads I have work.
Etc!

I used a sleeping bag for the first 2 years in the air, it worked well. I can not anymore, the SB is now a OQ :D

Just Jeff

12-29-2009, 19:56

Not that I want an 8# bag, but that center zipper would go a looooooooong way towards taking the hassle out of a bag.

Then check this out. Almost got one myself...still kicks itself around in the back of my mind, whether I want it to or not. Usually it's talking to that monkey on my back... :jj:

As low as 21 oz for 20F size medium, center zip, hood, wpb...customizable...it's like the 13th step.
http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/other_bags/alpinist.htm

oldgringo

12-29-2009, 20:09

Then check this out. Almost got one myself...still kicks itself around in the back of my mind, whether I want it to or not. Usually it's talking to that monkey on my back... :jj:

As low as 21 oz for 20F size medium, center zip, hood, wpb...customizable...it's like the 13th step.
http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/other_bags/alpinist.htm

Hmmm...which organ to sell...decisions, decisions...

Stone

12-29-2009, 20:22

Peg-Leg

12-29-2009, 22:23

I just converted an old REI 20* down bag to a top quilt. I cut away the hood area and zipper. Lightened up by 2 lbs.

Mustardman

12-29-2009, 22:36

I just converted an old REI 20* down bag to a top quilt. I cut away the hood area and zipper. Lightened up by 2 lbs.

I think you just convinced me to convert my Marmot Pounder bags into quilts. For cold weather, I love the enclosed feeling of a mummy bag, but those pounders get used when it's more around 50+ degrees, and I always use them in quilt mode anyways. I should be able to get them to less than a pound by removing the zippers and hoods, and that's not bad for synthetic.

tbone

12-29-2009, 22:43

I use my mil issue sleep system, I always use the goretex bivy and depending on the temp I either use the black bag or the green patrol bag or maybe both. I have found that putting a ridgerest inside the bivy on the outside of the inner bag is very comfortable. .
The lowest temp I have hit with this was only 30F this was using the bivy the blackbag and the ridgerest. My base layer was black silk polartec long underwear. I was pretty snug so I am confident that I can go much lower..

Festus Hagen

12-29-2009, 23:08

Exactly right. I use an UQ with my SB because I feel that it's more effective than a SB and pad. I don't consider it excessive, just more effective. If it's real cold I'll use both pads and UQ, but I've yet to hang in temps that cold (19F being my low temp thus far).

This isn't really the right question to be asking, though - with a sleeping bag, you will still need some sort of insulation underneath you, whether that is a pad or an underquilt.

kayaknbikehanger

12-31-2009, 00:32

I really enjoy my Big Agnes bags which have no bottom fill, but instead a pocket for the pad to slide into. For bicycle touring or backpacking in the summer I use the BA Horsethief, which at 22 oz without a hood is good to 35 or 40 degrees and packs quite small. For bike touring I use the insulated air core mummy pad by BA which packs pretty small for a pad and weighs about 21 oz. For backpacking I use a Wall Mart blue foam pad cut down to mummy size in the pocket. Its less than half the weight of the AirCore and plenty warm enough for nights in the 40's as I might encounter in the summer in our local Trinity Alps. It doesn't seem to hold the shape of the sleeping bag pocket as well as the AirCore, but works well enough. I haven't found the zipper to be much trouble as others have mentioned as the pads keeps everything sorted out pretty well. My winter camping is typically out of my sea kayak. For this, I like my BA Encampment bag which is a very roomy 15 degree synthetic bag with a hood. It takes most any 20 x 72 pad and is the more comfortable of the two bags. I prefer this synthetic fill when I am camping out of my kayak, winter or summer, in the event things get wet. When its close to 30 or under, I've enjoyed cinching the hood of the Encampment down to a little breathing hole and being toasty warm. I use my extra clothes or down vest by my shoulders to take care of the only cold spots I've routinely encountered with the BA bags.

I look forward to trying a TQ with UQ at some time. Right now I'm in that place where I'm feeling like "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

MacEntyre

12-31-2009, 08:29

My kids prefer sleeping bags to top quilts, because they can't be kicked off.

:cool:

Just Jeff

12-31-2009, 09:02

Mac - when Joker uses a top quilt, it's a rectangle quilt with a drawstring at the foot. I tighten the drawstring into a footbox with the cordlocks, then tie the loose drawstring to the hammock support or ridgeline. That way if he kicks it off, at least it's hanging from the hammock and easy for him to get it back. Still kick-off-able, but easily recoverable. Good for summer.

MacEntyre

12-31-2009, 09:28

Mac - when Joker uses a top quilt...
Interesting thought... loose head and foot tie-outs for a TQ! Just leave the exit side untied.

Things 1 & 2 thank you!

- MacEntyre

BigB

01-02-2010, 03:37

Well, I'm coming in very late in this thread but I have been following with great interest. I have noticed a few posts recently mentioning top zip bags, I was wondering if anyone had a look at this....

http://www.mountaingear.com/pages/product/product.asp/imanf/Exped/idesc/Wallcreeper+%2B30+Down+Sleeping+Bag/Store/MG/item/206525/N/990%204294966974

They also offer models in a 20 DEG down and a 40 Deg synthetic model...(for the price and based on reviews on BGT) I think I'm just gonna go ahead and order one...

I used a surplus top zip military bag for many years for campouts where I didnt have to carry it. I loved that bag, used it till it fell apart. I actually prefer top zip but they are really uncommon. I find them easier to get in and out of.

Highstrung

01-04-2010, 06:16

trucker at ez

01-04-2010, 17:00

I have a Coleman SB big and heavy no hood i just turn it on its side now its a top zipper used it ever since i started sleeping off the ground works great i have been out in -30 F with and old SB UQ stayed warm the hole time. IMO you definitely need something under you

dryer

01-05-2010, 09:22

I use quilts as first choice when above freezing, even light fleece blankets in spring/summer, bags when below freezing. A couple weeks ago, when it got down to 26 deg. I started out the night using a down bag as a quilt....later zipping up in the early morning when the temp bottomed out. You use what works and bags work fine.

woodsman

01-09-2010, 14:58

im a dedicated SB user, when it gets below about 20 deg. i use a 30 deg. bag that i have cut a 6 in. hole in the foot box to slide over the entire hammock making it like a sock that i can cinch up around my head. and inside the hammock i use a 0 deg. mummy bag. ive slept toasty warm on nights down to -4 deg. with 20 mph wind.

Take-a-knee

01-09-2010, 16:39

Then check this out. Almost got one myself...still kicks itself around in the back of my mind, whether I want it to or not. Usually it's talking to that monkey on my back... :jj:

As low as 21 oz for 20F size medium, center zip, hood, wpb...customizable...it's like the 13th step.
http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/other_bags/alpinist.htm

You still need the drawsting foot to make entry/exit from the hammock painless. The Raku or, IMO a Feathered Friends Rock Wren is the way to go.

gladiator

01-22-2010, 22:13

I spent three nights out last weekend in my HH Expedition, in temps ranging from 30-35 degrees F. I don't get out enough to justify spending the $ for a SS and TQ, so I've made due with my BA Pomer Hoit (0-deg) and Insulated Air Core pad. To this rig I've added a windshield reflector and poncho liner for some additional bottom insulation. I can't say that its an ideal setup, but I was reasonably comfortable, and would do it again if given the opportunity. I've seen some folks mention that sliding a fleece vest under your butt helps avoid that cold spot - I can say without hesitation that it works!

oldgringo

01-24-2010, 19:25

That center-zip GI bag that Randy posted this morning has shuffled my deck.

Not that I want an 8# bag, but that center zipper would go a looooooooong way towards taking the hassle out of a bag.

I just found another center-zip bag...Wiggy has one. More to ponder.

http://wiggys.com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=218

UCMWINGS

01-24-2010, 20:36

Mustardman

01-24-2010, 21:05

Haven't got my suspension together yet so haven't got to try my Doublenest yet. I plan on using a -15 bag in cold weather and have been wondering just how cold can you go with just a bag? Has anyone done any tests on bag ratings vs temps? At what temp would you add a pad or UQ?

About 60 degrees. It doesn't matter how cold your bag is rated - the insulation on the bottom will be almost completely worthless since it's compressed by the weight of your body. You will ALWAYS want something under you for insulation, unless it's quite warm.

Just Jeff

01-24-2010, 22:13

I slept in a Wiggys combo one night...a 0F bag and a 30F overbag that combine for -20 rating. During the night, I had both layers of the 0F and the bottom of the 30F bag under me, and only the top layer of the 30F bag over me. I was cold on the bottom, and it was only in the low 30s. It was pretty windy, though...but still, that's a 50 degree temp difference from the bag's rating.

Much lighter and more effective to just get a $10 Walmart pad.

JohnSawyer

01-26-2010, 12:00

About 60 degrees. It doesn't matter how cold your bag is rated - the insulation on the bottom will be almost completely worthless since it's compressed by the weight of your body. You will ALWAYS want something under you for insulation, unless it's quite warm.

Agreed... My first night in a hammock, I had no pad or underquilt, just a 20 degree bag in 55 degree weather... (plus fleece sweats, wool socks, hat) I kept rolling over all night, trying to stay warm. I'd wake up with cold butt, roll over, wake up with cold shoulder, Roll over, repeat...

The next week I found this forum... :)

soysos

02-02-2010, 02:36

your weight does compress the insulation, but that does not render it useless, just less effective. plus bundling in completely surrounded insulates more efficiently. I use a synthetic sleeping bag, and only use something under me below freezing. either a wool blanket inside the hammock or a poncho liner underneath.

Just Jeff

02-02-2010, 14:57

Technically not useless...just not useful for our purposes in the experience of most of us here. Except maybe neo, but that's b/c he's got antifreeze in his veins.

Agree on the bag insulating more effectively if you toss and turn enough to cause drafts in a quilt. If you're pretty still, the quilt will be tucked into the edges and will be just as effective as a bag...except maybe for the integrated hood. But true winter bags have a draft collar, and a good separate hood (JRB, BPL, etc) can approximate the same warmth; the only difference would be a slight venting around the neck, which would only matter when rolling over. And not many people sleep in the exact same position all night, so you've made a valid point.

You use nothing underneath you above freezing...do you have any ~40F nights using only sleeping bag underneath you? What's the bag rated at?

Mustardman

02-02-2010, 15:28

I'd say how well your back does with no under insulation also depends on the quality of the bag. The cheaper the bag, the better it will insulate your butt.... because the cheap bags are usually not very compressible :lol:

soysos

02-02-2010, 16:05

true the less you can compress a bag, the less it will compress under you. synthetics have another advantage in that they are usually hallow fibers. meaning the interlocking fibers create loft, but the fibers themselves are hallow and full of air, the air in the fibers insulate you regardless of how its compressed.

my standard 3-season sleeping bag is my patrol bag rated to 30*, I'll also wear a pair of wool bled socks, fleece pants and a t-shirt. I've used this bag down to 30* in still wind, 35* in heavy wind, I usually bring either my poncho liner or a wool blanket to put under me incase the wind picks up.

Spogatz

02-04-2010, 10:36

I have 2 old poncho liners that I can tie under my Hennessy and a wally world blue pad to go inside. With all of that I sleep in a REI Halo 20 degree synthetic bag. Toastie......

SnackPack

02-04-2010, 19:10

Im using a pad, my 40 F Northface bag with a fleece liner.....

Peanutdude

02-04-2010, 19:35

I've gotta say a good sleeping bag and a thin windproof undercover is great in the hammock. I love just rolling around in it..

Hobbit

02-04-2010, 22:35

I use my Montbell super stretch down bag when it gets below freezing. I have top quilts for use above that temp. I find I need the draft collar and hood to keep warm. If using a quilt I would have to wear added gear for head and neck protection anyway. Also, the Montbell super stretch system allows for freedom of movement that I also have with the quilts but without the drafts.

Just Jeff

02-04-2010, 23:58

my standard 3-season sleeping bag is my patrol bag rated to 30*, I'll also wear a pair of wool bled socks, fleece pants and a t-shirt. I've used this bag down to 30* in still wind, 35* in heavy wind, I usually bring either my poncho liner or a wool blanket to put under me incase the wind picks up.

You should count yourself lucky...that's better results at that temp than most of us could get. But some folks just sleep warmer than others! :jj:

chiefams

02-05-2010, 17:09

I just recently got my my ripstop lined fleece liner back... That, in conjunction with my 25 degree coleman bag, ive gotten down to 30*. Nice option for me considering I dont have a pad.

PKT

02-05-2010, 17:39

HappyCamper

02-05-2010, 17:46

one of the earlier posts showed this bag and I just pushed the button on it, the
" Exped Wallcreeper 400 Sleeping Bag: 35 Degree Down " www.backcountry.cm " had it at 50% off.
I'm having a little buyers remorse though not too sure how it'll fit in. I think it was a good deal though :)

PKT, No worries!! When you get something at that great price, even if you don't like it you can usually sell it for at least what you bought it for, plus shipping. No remorse!

PKT

02-05-2010, 19:04

Thanks HappyCamper :) I did a little more research seems to be a versatile sleep system that functions as a mummy bag, blanket, or parka. The parka-style hood and side arm-hole zippers let you wear the bag while out of the hammock! That could be handy for the early morning leak :)
at the worst the full-length center zip will allow me to modify it into a UQ.

scar9783

02-06-2010, 15:52

All I use is my sleeping bag...when it gets cold i'll pull out my thermarest but that's it and i've camped in well below 0* F. The idea is still just like ground camping for warmth. Proper insulation for temp and wind = warmth.

plowhorse

02-10-2010, 00:38

I still use a cheap walmart 40 degree bag in my hammock. it has served me well so far. I am now playing with poncho liners as tq. I have used one down to about 42 degrees as under insulation inside the hammock. for me down isn't very realistic as I am very hard on my gear. I am thinking of getting the Kifaru "doobie" and adding a drawcord and velcro for a footbox. as far as only using a sleeping bag, I used my old 20 degree coleman bag on a few outings without underinsultion. It worked fine until the bag started to compress. Long story short, if you can't afford a fancy down tq, make do with what you can. My coleman bag I used weighed around 12 lbs, but I used it because that was all I could afford at the time.

Just Jeff

02-10-2010, 00:45

Long story short, if you can't afford a fancy down tq, make do with what you can.

Amen brother...whatever gets you into the woods!

Newbies often get overwhelmed by how much gear talk goes on here and the level of detail we go into on it. Not necessary! All you need is some form of bottom insulation (walmart pad), some form of top insulation (coleman bag), and some form of rain protection (walmart tarp). Or a top of the line underquilt/top quilt combo with a superduper cat cut tarp. Either way, they all serve the same function...to get us into the woods!

Shug

02-10-2010, 00:50

Amen brother...whatever gets you into the woods!

Newbies often get overwhelmed by how much gear talk goes on here and the level of detail we go into on it. Not necessary! All you need is some form of bottom insulation (walmart pad), some form of top insulation (coleman bag), and some form of rain protection (walmart tarp). Or a top of the line underquilt/top quilt combo with a superduper cat cut tarp. Either way, they all serve the same function...to get us into the woods!
Too right JustJeff .... I agree. That gets forgotten.

oldgringo

02-10-2010, 05:12

Amen brother...whatever gets you into the woods!

Newbies often get overwhelmed by how much gear talk goes on here and the level of detail we go into on it. Not necessary! All you need is some form of bottom insulation (walmart pad), some form of top insulation (coleman bag), and some form of rain protection (walmart tarp). Or a top of the line underquilt/top quilt combo with a superduper cat cut tarp. Either way, they all serve the same function...to get us into the woods!

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

I want my money back!:laugh:

MedicineMan

02-10-2010, 05:30

PKT...
The Wallcreeper also will work as a generic peapod. I've used it this way twice. I had one sitting in a box for long time then saw a pic someone posted here at HF using it as such. Now the WC has even mor uses.
One afternoon i fully opened it up and took a nap on the bed, so don't forget 'normal' use too.

gargoyle

02-10-2010, 06:08

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

I want my money back!:laugh:

" I'm sorry sir, we cannot accept any of your returns..they smell like ham and red beans":confused:;):lol:

soberskip

02-18-2010, 23:20

i got a down big agness 20 degree bag which allows a thermarest neoair pad to slip in like a bb double layer which is the hanger i use of course. it slides in the bags underslot so it does not shift when i move. saved me a bundle not buying uq or tq because i had these items when i slept on the ground.

BreckDown

02-20-2010, 07:29

I hate sleeping bags. I could sleep in a coffin rack on a destroyer for years without issue, but put me in a sleeping bag and I'm claustrophobic. If you have a SB but want the openness and weight savings of a quilt just cut all of the extras out of the SB that you don't use when it's being used as a quilt. I took a junky Lafuma 1000 Extreme that I picked up at REI's scratch and dent sale for $20 and started cutting out all the useless shock cord, that strip of material that seals around your shoulders, tags, and the zippers. I took from 2lbs 9 oz down to an even 2lbs. Now 2lbs is still more than a competitive down quilt, but it got me thinking that with SB's being relatively cheaper and easier to come by, that I may just look for a SB that fits my needs and cut the grams out of that one too.

koaloha05

02-20-2010, 18:49

My initial experience with a hammock was using a bag. I was a total idiot and froze my butt in a 40*F rated bag that was always warm into the upper 30*F on the ground during my +50*F night. Broke out the pads and struggled getting into the bag and keeping the pads from wrinkling, sliding...(HH days). Found hammockfroums.net!!! Eureka the underquilt concept. The Nest arrived. Warm butt. Started using the bag like a quilt. Liked it quilt style more than bag style. Then quilt acquisition syndrome kicked in.

Nothing wrong with a bag vs. quilt. Whatever you prefer.

AndyB

02-20-2010, 23:33

My first night out on the trail as a hammocker, I crawled inside my bag and then squirmed inside my HH. With a ccf pad under me, I stayed warm. However, in the middle of the night, when I was dead asleep, I had a wicked bad claustrophia attack. I broke out in a sweat trying to free myself. I love my bag but never again will I crawl inside it to sleep - it works much better for me as a quilt.

spidennis

02-25-2010, 00:13

I've had my exped wallcreeper 650 for about a month now and have been using it quite a bit for my naps in the house and on cooler nites out on my porch. it's a top center zip and much easier to get into than a side zip. I also use a piece of shock cord at the head and foot tied to the ends of the hammock (bb) to keep the bag stretched out when getting into it. while I take a nap I use it in top quilt mode leaving it a bit zipped up at the bottom to create a foot box . I've got down to 41.9 degrees last night for my record low. I'd try out lower temps but it just doesn't get that cold here .....

Stone

02-26-2010, 20:36

Where did you attach the shock cord on the bag? I have a EXPED too, and was thinking along the same lines....

spidennis

02-26-2010, 20:47

Where did you attach the shock cord on the bag? I have a EXPED too, and was thinking along the same lines....

at the draw cord for the feet there's a clip together connector and that is where my shock cord attaches. when I get a sewing machine I'l make a dedicated tie off point.