PDA

View Full Version : Pictoral on a Locked Brummel



opie
01-02-2010, 22:43
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000956.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000957.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000958.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000959.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000960.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000961.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000962.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000963.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000964.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000965.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000966.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000967.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000970.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000971.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000972.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000973.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000974.jpg
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000975.jpg

SlowBro
01-02-2010, 22:48
This all looks vaguely familiar:D
Nice job.

Doesn't the Locked Brummel derate the rope more than a straight bury?

vitamaltz
01-02-2010, 22:48
Sweet. I read this post on a tablet PC. My stylus is attached to the computer with larksheaded decoy line finished with a locked brummel on either end. That's a really nice concise explanation. Good photos always do the trick.

opie
01-02-2010, 22:52
This all looks vaguely familiar:D
Nice job.

Doesn't the Locked Brummel derate the rope more than a straight bury?

I dont think so. Knotty got an Email from Samson with some better results for whoopie deration of the cord. I forget where he posted it....

Also... I posted a picture or 2 of some 3/16 amsteel I whipped up into a whoopie sling. Clearly the larger rope suffers more deformation from bury entrances and exits.... So IM wondering if the smaller diameters dont suffer from the extreme derates as the larger.

And the destructive testing Ive done, albeit it not scientific or standardized, dont show the brummel adversely effecting the rating over a straight, stitched bury.

OldMan
01-02-2010, 23:19
Thanks. That's not at all what I had envisioned.

Trooper
01-02-2010, 23:25
Back when I used to fly gliders, this is the way the tow-lines were finished on each end. If it is strong enough to pull an aircraft, should be good enough for a hammock suspension.

TOB9595
01-02-2010, 23:45
Thank you for posting this tutorial Opie Tom

UncleMJM
01-02-2010, 23:51
The pictures help a ton. Thanks for posting.

MacEntyre
01-03-2010, 08:08
BTW, the two passes through the standing part, prior to the bury, are called a Marlin splice.

Marlin is two strand, twisted, tarred hemp... it is small stuff, used for a variety of things, including mousing shackles, seizing shrouds, knife lanyards and breakout ties for sails.

Being two strand, it cannot not be spliced in the traditional manner, so it is spliced with three passes through the standing part, like the two passes Opie has shown prior to the bury. It is surprisingly strong, and doesn't reduce the strength of the line much at all.

- MacEntyre, user of hemp

WV
01-03-2010, 09:31
Great photos. When do you taper the end? If you taper it at the start, before you first grab the tail end of the bury, and grab at the middle of the tapered part, not where it starts, then the doubled portion that is held by the fid is approximately the same thickness as the main part of the line. This makes it easier to pull the bury into the line (photos 14 and 15).

opie
01-03-2010, 09:49
BTW, the two passes through the standing part, prior to the bury, are called a Marlin splice.

Marlin is two strand, twisted, tarred hemp... it is small stuff, used for a variety of things, including mousing shackles, seizing shrouds, knife lanyards and breakout ties for sails.

Being two strand, it cannot not be spliced in the traditional manner, so it is spliced with three passes through the standing part, like the two passes Opie has shown prior to the bury. It is surprisingly strong, and doesn't reduce the strength of the line much at all.

- MacEntyre, user of hemp

So the part thats being called the "locked brummel" is actually a "marlin splice?"


Great photos. When do you taper the end? If you taper it at the start, before you first grab the tail end of the bury, and grab at the middle of the tapered part, not where it starts, then the doubled portion that is held by the fid is approximately the same thickness as the main part of the line. This makes it easier to pull the bury into the line (photos 14 and 15).

Sometimes I do it before I run the bury, sometimes after.

Ive found if after you grab the tail of whatever your pulling through, and turn the cut end back into the line prior to pulling through, it goes without much problem.

Like this...

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000980.jpg

Instead of this..

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000981.jpg

MacEntyre
01-03-2010, 10:06
So the part that's being called the "locked brummel" is actually a "marlin splice?"
The entyre eye splice is the "Locked Brummel", short for "Locked Brummel Splice". The method of locking is a Marlin splice, prior to the bury.

- MacEntyre, belaying that!

WV
01-03-2010, 10:12
Ahhhh! Brilliant clarification. Thanks.

opie
01-03-2010, 11:09
The entyre eye splice is the "Locked Brummel", short for "Locked Brummel Splice". The method of locking is a Marlin splice, prior to the bury.

- MacEntyre, belaying that!

Ahhh... Thank you!!

Cannibal
01-03-2010, 11:14
Nice thread!
Time to go warm up the printer. :D

TrailH4x
01-03-2010, 11:20
Hey Opie, found a good one for you (and any others who like a good challenge). Try your hand at a locked brummel when you only have access to one end of the rope. Step 8 is key- make you flip identicle to the image. Instructions below can be accessed directly from New England Ropes:Brummell (Single Braid Eye Splice) Instructions (http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Strand_EyeSpliceBrummel.aspx)

A "Locked Brummell Splice" may be made, using only one end of the rope, in most soft Hollow Braids, or "Cover Only" constructions using the following splice procedure:

1) From end of rope measure back 1-1/4 full fid lengths (see Fid Measurement Table) and make Mark "A".
Measure Eye size from A. to B.
Using masking tape place a wrap of tape (2”) on the end of the core tail.
Taper this by cutting the end at a 45 degree angle.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-01.gif

2) Pass end through Center of rope at Mark A.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-02.gif

3) Pull end up tight
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-03.gif

4) Pull end hard to roll “inside-out” at Mark A.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-04.gif

5) Now pass end through center of rope at Mark B. (in same direction as before).
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-05.gif

6) Pull A all the way thru and pull tight
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-06.gif

7) You now have points A.&B. rolled inside-out.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-07.gif

8) Now Un - Roll point A. working rope up and through point A. in direction shown.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-08.gif

9) Pull point B. all the way through A.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-09.gif

10) Now Un-roll Point B. working short end up & through Point B. , in direction shown.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-10.gif

11) Pull short end up -while pulling the standing end down as shown.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-11.gif

12) Continue to close-up locked Brummell Splice
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-12.gif

13) Finally, bury tail into standing end.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-13.gif

Knotty
01-03-2010, 11:39
This all looks vaguely familiar:D
Nice job.

Doesn't the Locked Brummel derate the rope more than a straight bury?

Info from Samson on whoopie load derating can be found here.

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12319

opie
01-03-2010, 11:51
Hey Opie, found a good one for you (and any others who like a good challenge).

Is that a challenge?!

Is the guantlet lying on the ground...?:lol:

TrailH4x
01-03-2010, 11:53
Here are a few more splices for those hiding from the cold today (all content compliments of NER):
http://www.neropes.com/Images/splice_12strand_on.gif (http://www.neropes.com/SplGuide_CategoryLanding12Braid.aspx)


Eye Splice - Bury (http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Strand_EyeSpliceBury.aspx)
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp10_2.jpg

Eye Splice - Lock Stitch (http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12BraidEyeLockStitch.aspx)
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp12_2.gif

Eye Splice - Brummell (http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Strand_EyeSpliceBrummel.aspx)
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-13.gif

End for End - Bury (http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Braid_EndForEnd.aspx)
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp16_2.jpg

Eye Splice - Tuck (http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Braid_EyeSpliceTuck.aspx)
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp11_9.jpg

Megaplait-To-Chain Splice (http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Braid_Megaplait.aspx)
http://www.neropes.com/images/megaplait_8.jpg

Enjoy!!

TrailH4x
01-03-2010, 12:14
Is that a challenge?!

Is the guantlet lying on the ground...?:lol:

Let the challenge lie between your hands and the rope. I would never :rolleyes: pass insult on a master! Hah-hah.

Oh, and by the way, thanks for the instructional on the Brummel. Came out great!

opie
01-03-2010, 14:34
Let the challenge lie between your hands and the rope. I would never :rolleyes: pass insult on a master! Hah-hah.

Oh, and by the way, thanks for the instructional on the Brummel. Came out great!

Done... Its not that bad.... You want a pictoral?

tlbj6142
01-03-2010, 15:29
Don't forget to taper....Is that when you remove half of the strands in the last inch or so of the bury?

opie
01-03-2010, 16:25
Is that when you remove half of the strands in the last inch or so of the bury?

Yes.......

tlbj6142
01-03-2010, 17:45
Thanks for the guide. It worked great. The Lock Brummel is definitely easier than sewing in a thread lock on a "normal" loop bury. Plus it looks quite a bit nicer.

Captn
01-03-2010, 19:36
Does the lock stitch work without a locking thread?

opie
01-03-2010, 19:39
Does the lock stitch work without a locking thread?

Not sure what you mean...

Locking thread?

The stitching is only needed if you arent using the locked brummel.

Captn
01-04-2010, 06:45
The Locking stitch is another method that was shown in the pictures a couple of posts back.

MacEntyre
01-04-2010, 07:07
I think "locking", in the context of splicing, means to stitch it.

OTOH, "locking", in the context of stitching, means to double back at the ends.

:cool:

TrailH4x
01-04-2010, 18:14
Does the lock stitch work without a locking thread?

Yes it does :D. No seperate thread stiching is required for it (click on the hyperlinked splice names for step by step instructions).

Just ensure you are burying a full 2-1/2 fid lengths. (1 fid length = 21 x's rope diameter, or about 7 x's rope circumference ;)).

lonetracker
01-11-2010, 11:35
i had an old rope with a loop on one end.i took it apart and this is how it was put together.would it be used in the same applications as fixed brummel?thought someone might be interested

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=2002
fig 1 end of rope A inserted into rope at B pulled all the way through till allmost to B as in fig 2,now end A exits loop at point C and is reinserted into rope at D to form the bury

MacEntyre
01-11-2010, 12:07
I like that... makes a nice covered eye, thicker than the line, and won't close up on you. Kinda like built in chafing gear. I wonder if it's stronger than a locked Brummel?

lonetracker
01-11-2010, 12:14
tied one allready?that looks like what i took apart.

MacEntyre
01-11-2010, 12:28
...that looks like what i took apart.
It should... I used your instructions.

Knotty
01-11-2010, 13:05
Creative idea but I'm not so sure about this approach. Wonder if it doesn't allow the loads to distribute properly along the splice and wouldn't a standard buried splice be simpler?

MacEntyre
01-11-2010, 14:30
Wonder if it doesn't allow the loads to distribute properly along the splice...
The bury locks, so the eye is static. The load distributes itself as usual, no differently from a locked Brummel.

The question is, which is weaker, the two marlin splice passes through the standing part in a locked Brummel, or the split in this doubled eye?

opie
01-11-2010, 17:48
I like that... makes a nice covered eye, thicker than the line, and won't close up on you. Kinda like built in chafing gear. I wonder if it's stronger than a locked Brummel?

That looks interesting.

I think it doesnt weaken the splice anymore thanthe Locked Brummel. Looks cool, but doesnt look to have any more fucntionality.

MacEntyre
01-11-2010, 17:54
...doesnt look to have any more fucntionality.
1. eye holds open better
2. eye has a core for strength
3. eye has a sheath for protection
4. eye is stronger (according to MacEntyre:lol:)
5. eye can't be pulled apart

opie
01-11-2010, 17:59
1. eye holds open better
2. eye has a core for strength
3. eye has a sheath for protection
4. eye is stronger (according to MacEntyre:lol:)
5. eye can't be pulled apart

Not to nit pick... That was just my opinion...

1. Holds open better for what? And after you weight it, does it spring back open?

2. I wouldnt call it a sheath. Because once you wear through it, you have effectively put the eye into unusefullness. Isnt the "sheath" part of the locking system?

3. It no stronger than its weakest link. Unless this is an eye to eye splice. If its in a whoopie config, the weak link is the exit of the adjustable bury.

4. See number 2 above. And the eye cant be pulled apart in a proper Locked Brummel either, unless your trying to get it apart. I would imagine if one was trying to get this one apart, they could.

But like I said.. It looks cool!!! And thats worth its weight in gold.

And I need to work on my spelling...

MacEntyre
01-11-2010, 18:17
Not to nit pick... That was just my opinion...
Of course!

1. Holds open better for what? And after you weight it, does it spring back open?
For putting it onto things... certainly it will open and remain open better than a single part. You have to be an old salt to appreciate eyes that hold open. I used to lasso spiles with 2" ropes, and the eye that didn't hold open made me look bad. I'll show you in another post how to make an eye that holds open, and is locked to some extent.

2. I wouldnt call it a sheath. Because once you wear through it, you have effectively put the eye into unusefullness. Isnt the "sheath" part of the locking system?
Nope, ope... the eye doesn't lock. The bury in the standing part locks.

3. It no stronger than its weakest link. Unless this is an eye to eye splice. If its in a whoopie config, the weak link is the exit of the adjustable bury.
True, however, the eye itself is stronger than a single part eye, for whatever that is worth.

4. See number 2 above. And the eye cant be pulled apart in a proper Locked Brummel either, unless your trying to get it apart. I would imagine if one was trying to get this one apart, they could.
Point conceded regarding pulling the eye apart.

But like I said.. It looks cool!!! And thats worth its weight in gold.
Yes! I agree! I like it a lot!

And I need to work on my spelling...
Off topic. Watch out, AS might be on this thread.

MacEntyre
01-11-2010, 18:30
This is how we used to make hold-open eyes in mooring lines, so we could lasso spiles. There is more to lassoing spiles than this... you have to know how to coil the line, how to throw it, how to release it, and what to do for different things you lasso, such as cleats, bollards, bits, pilings, people...

opie
01-11-2010, 18:35
I can definetely see the usefullness in your description.

And I didnt see "how" it locks till I just took another closer look.

That is cool.

Knotty
01-11-2010, 18:46
lonetracker's name may destined for the knot books!

gargoyle
01-11-2010, 18:59
Anyone done some destructive testing on this "new" lonetracker loop? Curious on how much stronger, if at all, this eye is over a conventional eye. Also, this new eye uses more rope, is it really an advantage?

IndyDan
01-11-2010, 19:00
Question:
Can you use a plastic nylon wire tie to lock the bury?

opie
01-11-2010, 19:40
Question:
Can you use a plastic nylon wire tie to lock the bury?

I suppose you could. So long as its as small as possible.

MacEntyre
01-11-2010, 20:02
...not very yar. :(

oldgringo
01-11-2010, 20:25
...not very yar. :(

No, it's not. But then, synthetic cordage in every color under the sun isn't either.

opie
01-11-2010, 20:49
OK... I cant seem to find the acronym thread... what is "yar?"

oldgringo
01-11-2010, 21:03
English[edit] EtymologyFrom Old English gearu (“‘ready’”), from Old High German garo (“‘ready’”)

[edit] Adjectiveyar (comparative yarer, superlative yarest)

Positive
yar
Comparative
yarer
Superlative
yarest


1.(nautical) Especially of a sailboat, of a vessel which is quick, and agile. Of one which is easy to hand, reef and steer.
1940 My, she was yar...It means, uh...easy to handle, quick to the helm, fast, right. Everything a boat should be, until she develops dry rot. - The Philadelphia Story written by Philip Barry
1958, Bulletin of the John Rylands Library
...to make a ship best weighed, or yarest in her going.
1993 Arr, here be a fine vessel the yarest river-going boat there be. - Captain McAllister The Simpsons ep. 1F06

opie
01-11-2010, 21:14
Let it be known I learned something today.

MacEntyre
01-11-2010, 21:18
At Mystic Seaport, when a vessel is in good trim, things are where they belong, and the ropework is all as it should be, they call it "yar".

In Edgartown, when a yacht is bright, the fiberglass is clean and the lines are all coiled down where they belong, they call it "Bristol fashion."

In Newfoundland, when a window in the pilothouse breaks, they stuff a rag in it... that's not yar.

A traditional doubled-thread whipping with barrel stitches to seize a splice is yar. An electrician's tie wrap is not.

.

opie
01-11-2010, 21:25
Got it. :D

Knotty
01-11-2010, 23:31
...not very yar. :(

Couldn't agree more. There's just something right about doing ropework right. A needle and thread or floss is all it takes stitch a bury. It's a time proven technique.

OldMan
01-22-2010, 18:43
Hey Opie, found a good one for you (and any others who like a good challenge). Try your hand at a locked brummel when you only have access to one end of the rope.

Not as easy as having both ends free, but doable. Unrolling the pull throughs is the challenging part.

opie
01-22-2010, 18:48
Not as easy as having both ends free, but doable. Unrolling the pull throughs is the challenging part.

Yep. Especially with the smaller lines like 1.75.

OldMan
01-22-2010, 22:50
Yep. Especially with the smaller lines like 1.75.

That would take a lot more dexterity and eyesight that I have available to me. The 1/8 inch amsteel is pushing my limits.

TZBrown
01-23-2010, 09:59
:confused: Yep... I pondered it for about half an hour before figuring it out.

Pushing one of my wires out of the line, then putting it through the eye then back through the original hole in the line to pull the eye through.

Then unrolling to get it straight and continue the last step.

Once accomplished it felt pretty good :D

TZ

sonic
02-16-2010, 00:06
that might have something to do with the old pirate saying. "Yar Maty!!!":D
well shiver me timbers

eflat7
02-17-2010, 16:58
Thanks Opie! I finally gave this a shot. The first took me awhile and was not easy. Finally, I have it down pat and replaced the rope on my eno with one of these. Being a bigger person, I was really nervous to test this. I did so as my wife videotaped because she didn't want to miss a chance at a 10,000 $ video!!

It worked perfectly. I aprreciate you taking the time to type it all up.

opie
02-17-2010, 17:54
Thanks Opie! I finally gave this a shot. The first took me awhile and was not easy. Finally, I have it down pat and replaced the rope on my eno with one of these. Being a bigger person, I was really nervous to test this. I did so as my wife videotaped because she didn't want to miss a chance at a 10,000 $ video!!

It worked perfectly. I aprreciate you taking the time to type it all up.

Certainly... I enjoy sharing ideas when I can get my mind wrapped around it. Its not always easy.

Hooch
03-07-2010, 19:23
Opie, thanks a million for posting the tutorial and pics on this. It was a lot simpler than I thought it was after looking at it and playing around with it here. I just made 2 sets of Whoopie Slings with fixed eye brummels on the end to atach to the hammock. Super easy project once you get started on it and get going. Thanks for sharing!

opie
03-07-2010, 20:01
My pleasure Hooch. Its the least I can do for a community thats done so much for me.

dant8ro
08-01-2010, 22:11
I made an excel file tor Whoopie newbs like myself who were unaware of what an Fid was until recently. The file shows a picture of the parts of a whoopie sling and uses the samson - amsteel rope instructions to calculate all the safe bury sizes for whatever diameter of cord you select. Probably not that useful as most everyone uses 7/64 but PM me if you want it!:)

tiredhiker
08-05-2010, 22:45
Thanks opie that was a great tutorial, I just got a bunch of amsteel to make some whoopie slings, that will help alot.... tiredhiker

Silverlion
09-08-2010, 10:38
Sweet post. Now I know how to do it! I'm ordering my Amsteel this weekend and converting my HH to WS. Thanks!

jeepcachr
09-08-2010, 11:04
Awesome pics, great step by step tutorial.

I like to put the end of my splicing tool in a vice. Then you can work the rope onto it using both hands. I think my spicing tool is slightly heavier wire (from a clothes hanger) which despite the bigger size I think makes it easier for the bury because it's stiffer to work the rope over.

opie
09-08-2010, 16:47
jeep, the leader wire is pretty stiff. I never had it kink or otherwise become disconfigured during use. I could easily go through 1200-1600 foot of rope on 1 tool.

natureboy68
09-18-2010, 20:38
super easy! just did it! thanks!

solobear
09-24-2010, 12:45
I made an excel file tor Whoopie newbs like myself who were unaware of what an Fid was until recently. The file shows a picture of the parts of a whoopie sling and uses the samson - amsteel rope instructions to calculate all the safe bury sizes for whatever diameter of cord you select. Probably not that useful as most everyone uses 7/64 but PM me if you want it!:)

I'd really like one,
thanks...
SB
[email protected]

thekid
11-27-2010, 17:21
I made two closed loop Locked Brummel and I think it will work great from the whipped end of the hammock to the Dutch biner to whoopie sling

BackpackingBoomer
11-27-2010, 20:27
whoopies rock!

hikelite
12-14-2010, 13:23
Thanks for posting this Opie. I used your excellent pictures to make my first sling last night. :)

opie
12-14-2010, 22:01
hike, Im glad this is still valuable to the community.

Mike210
01-11-2011, 23:30
I initially made 2 whoopie slings using simple buried eyes I was going to lock by stitching but went back and used the method of turning the rope inside out to turn them into locked brummels. Then used the normal method to make 2 more slings. This thread was invaluable in doing both of those operations.

One question. In my mind the bury after the locking splices seems only to be a way to dispose of the excess cord. Is this bury structural? And if so, what percentage of the brummels strength comes from the locking splices and what percentage from the bury. Just wondering as I used minimal buries and am hoping I don't have to undo these and make them again with longer buries.

jeepcachr
01-12-2011, 12:50
One question. In my mind the bury after the locking splices seems only to be a way to dispose of the excess cord. Is this bury structural? And if so, what percentage of the brummels strength comes from the locking splices and what percentage from the bury. Just wondering as I used minimal buries and am hoping I don't have to undo these and make them again with longer buries.
Someone will likely correct me if I'm wrong. I thought the strength came from the bury. The locked brummel wouldn't be necessary for a static load. The reason for the lock is to prevent the bury from creeping under dynamic load. Over time it could creep out. I'm not sure what the minimum safe bury is, I always over bury. I don't weigh grams or count pennys with my gear. Though looking at it now I don't see how a locked brummel can come apart assuming a couple inches of tail. I definitely wouldn't go crazy short.

Yup I know no help at all...

opie
01-12-2011, 14:12
I initially made 2 whoopie slings using simple buried eyes I was going to lock by stitching but went back and used the method of turning the rope inside out to turn them into locked brummels. Then used the normal method to make 2 more slings. This thread was invaluable in doing both of those operations.

One question. In my mind the bury after the locking splices seems only to be a way to dispose of the excess cord. Is this bury structural? And if so, what percentage of the brummels strength comes from the locking splices and what percentage from the bury. Just wondering as I used minimal buries and am hoping I don't have to undo these and make them again with longer buries.

The bury is where the load is carried. The marlin splice will support a fair amount of load, but the majority of the strength comes from the bury.

Your bury length starts AFTER your taper. i.e. start measuring for your bury past where the taper stops. The tapered part of the line is not considered part of the bury.

Proper bury length is 21x the rope diameter or 7x circumference.

hikelite
01-12-2011, 17:00
The bury is where the load is carried. The marlin splice will support a fair amount of load, but the majority of the strength comes from the bury.

Your bury length starts AFTER your taper. i.e. start measuring for your bury past where the taper stops. The tapered part of the line is not considered part of the bury.

Proper bury length is 21x the rope diameter or 7x circumference.

hmmm my fixed ends might be a bit short then. I think the amount not tapered is probably only ~1.5-2" on 7/64 Amsteel. They don't appear to be danger of failing though. I thought by threading the rope through itself, that would also provide some of the strength. The bury just keeps it from coming apart, no?

Mike210
01-12-2011, 23:45
Thanks opie for the explanation on what is carrying the load. I should be ok on my buries as I buried about 3" plus the taper. I did the math and 1 fid on 7/64 Amsteel works out to 2.29". Not as much safety factor as I thought I had but should still be enough.

opie
01-14-2011, 17:22
hmmm my fixed ends might be a bit short then. I think the amount not tapered is probably only ~1.5-2" on 7/64 Amsteel. They don't appear to be danger of failing though. I thought by threading the rope through itself, that would also provide some of the strength. The bury just keeps it from coming apart, no?

Youre backwords... The marlin splice keeps it from coming apart. Without the marlin splice you would need to lockstitch the bury so under no or light loads it doesnt pull out.

There is an added benefit of the marlin splice being able to carry some load, but its intention is to lock the splice.

crow
01-30-2011, 05:07
Thank you for the guide, I've never done this before and this made it a breeze.

creativeKayt
02-07-2011, 00:51
Here is a video response to these instructions.
Thank you very much, Opie, SlowBro, and Crazy Bear (and everybuggy else here who contributed fantastic instructions)!!

I couldn't of learned how to do this without your great instructions!!
:thumbup: You all rock da mic!!!

Sli3Wc6Dtcw

dragon360
02-08-2011, 14:33
Hi creativeKayt - watched the video - great fun! I had a quick question. I grabbed some mason's line from HD a while back - Lehigh in pink - but i find that the braid is way too tight for any splicing. Mind if I ask what type you are using?

creativeKayt
02-08-2011, 16:04
Sure. It's the "MARSHALL TOWN Premier Line 500 ft. Florescent Yellow Braided Mason's Line." You can get it to squish inward and loosen up a lot.

Link: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100318177/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

dragon360
02-08-2011, 16:52
Thank you. Going to see if it makes the difference. Seems it will.

creativeKayt
02-09-2011, 01:01
You bet! Always happy to help a fellow dragon out! Heh heh.
Let us know how you get on with it.
:)

PackBacker81
02-15-2011, 16:10
Nice instructions gang... gotta get some line to try this out :thumbup:

SmokeHouse
02-15-2011, 16:48
very nice,,, thanks for the pictures and details.

countryboy
02-15-2011, 21:04
Big NOOB, here...

This is actually my first post...

Anyway, some friends used hammocks at a big camping get together we had last Fall and I was smitten. Read Speer's book and then bought a sewing machine.

Long story short, found this site a few days ago and the threads have been invaluable. Earlier today I finished my sixth hammock (me, wife and four boys...) and started trying to sort our the rigging. While searching for whoopie sling info I found this thread! Perfect. This evening I tied six sets of slings with the Amsteel that came in yesterday! Just watched creativeKayt's video and know how I'll be doing my tarp tie-downs.

Just have to settle on a design for the tarps and I'll start sewing them!!

Thanks again!!

CB

Terry_Dodson
02-15-2011, 22:39
creativeKayt great video, any chance you can make one showing how you did the 2nd loop? :)

hikelite
02-16-2011, 14:36
Big NOOB, here...

This is actually my first post...

Anyway, some friends used hammocks at a big camping get together we had last Fall and I was smitten. Read Speer's book and then bought a sewing machine.

Long story short, found this site a few days ago and the threads have been invaluable. Earlier today I finished my sixth hammock (me, wife and four boys...) and started trying to sort our the rigging. While searching for whoopie sling info I found this thread! Perfect. This evening I tied six sets of slings with the Amsteel that came in yesterday! Just watched creativeKayt's video and know how I'll be doing my tarp tie-downs.

Just have to settle on a design for the tarps and I'll start sewing them!!

Thanks again!!

CB

That's awesome! Welcome to the forum. You got a lot done already for a first post!

Please make a thread and post pics of your projects. We all love to see each others' work.

d-p
02-21-2011, 05:42
All,
In case you missed ... scroll back to CreativeKayt's uTube with mason line ...
THEN, clik her website ...............

Took my breath away !

dp
www.dphammockgear.com

creativeKayt
02-26-2011, 00:04
Ahhh :blush: thanks. Gosh.

More videos are coming. I'll make sure I capture another one of me doing both ends, but basically, I did both ends exactly the same. I've been traveling and unable to put some new ones together. But after this next week, I'll get back to it!

:D

grizzlybeare
08-13-2011, 15:12
I am using a foot long piece of amsteel with locked brummel splices at both ands rahter than a continuous loop as the attachment points on my hammock.
Should I Have any strencgth concerns? Is it better to use a continuous loop?

for clarification I have an ENO with the double eye through the channel. Then one eye through the other and pulled tight .

thank guys

Grizzlybeare

hppyfngy
08-15-2011, 15:00
I am using a foot long piece of amsteel with locked brummel splices at both ands rahter than a continuous loop as the attachment points on my hammock.
Should I Have any strencgth concerns? Is it better to use a continuous loop?

for clarification I have an ENO with the double eye through the channel. Then one eye through the other and pulled tight .

thank guys

Grizzlybeare

You mean something like this?

http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/1/1/4/2/1/003medium_thumb.jpg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=15114&c=4)
I've used this for attachments with descending rings.

Diz
09-07-2011, 20:50
Great tutorial. Now how about the spliced loop chain link?

Diz
09-07-2011, 21:55
never mind I found it "Continuous Loop pictoral" way cool.

jbrianb
01-30-2012, 14:14
Great pictorial, Opie. Love it when you guys learn me sump'n new.

Patrick
06-08-2012, 09:57
Splicing newbie question.

The final two pictures in the original post aren't showing up for me. The last one is with the bury squished up and the tail sticking out just a little. I assume that pulling the whole thing taut will suck the tail inside the bury?

Is anything else needed to ensure everything is yar and won't slip over time?

Funkyleebasick
06-11-2012, 22:33
thank you, that makes it look easier

opie
06-13-2012, 20:52
Splicing newbie question.

The final two pictures in the original post aren't showing up for me. The last one is with the bury squished up and the tail sticking out just a little. I assume that pulling the whole thing taut will suck the tail inside the bury?

Is anything else needed to ensure everything is yar and won't slip over time?

You are correct, and no.

Billybobky
06-23-2012, 17:41
Great tutorial.

Bodhi
07-05-2012, 16:18
Great pictorial, thanks!

c0wb0y_hubs
07-05-2012, 16:39
I must admit that I haven't read all 11 pages of this thread, but I thought this guys video was very helpful when creating a locked brummel with only one end of the cord is available. His application is winch line, but the only difference is the size of amsteel.

VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU1b1iYgdgw)

opie
07-05-2012, 21:43
Thats me too!!

fly-chucker
07-18-2012, 18:28
going to build ridge lines for my tarp (2x), using zing-it. Wondering if I need to use the locked brummel or a plain old eye splice? Same for the guy lines?

JaxHiker
07-18-2012, 21:47
I must admit that I haven't read all 11 pages of this thread, but I thought this guys video was very helpful when creating a locked brummel with only one end of the cord is available. His application is winch line, but the only difference is the size of amsteel.

VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU1b1iYgdgw)

Yup, Opie's vid rocks. I finally needed the one-end video last week and I was surprised I was able to do it on the smaller line.

fwiw I always do the locked brummel for eye splices.

fly-chucker
07-23-2012, 15:13
Pulled my new superfly and zing-it out of the box and am starting to put together my guy-lines.

With a locked brummel for a guy-line, how long of a bury do I need?

JaxHiker
07-23-2012, 15:30
I just made some new guy lines for my new JRB 10x11. I only made the bury about 1". It's based purely on unscientific guessing. ;)

Charlz9mm
08-10-2012, 07:52
This was awesome. Really helped a lot. I have one sling done so far.

BearBurrito
09-18-2012, 17:39
Thanks for the tutorial. Did my first splice using amsteel tonight.:)

Tigger
09-19-2012, 12:58
Made some whoopie slings using these photos, much easier to follow than a written description, Thanks very much Jeff

yessirre
11-14-2012, 15:22
Gonna try using this on tarp tie out lines to make neat permanent attachment of the whoopies to the tarp! thanks Jeff

simply_light
01-18-2013, 03:31
Works like a charm.

hofer150
02-17-2013, 15:16
I'm planning on making a UCR; is a locked brummel necessary for the loops or will a simple loop buried back into itself be strong enough? I'm just worried that if you pulled on the loop wrong you might pull the end out of the bury.

gmcttr
02-17-2013, 15:26
I'm planning on making a UCR; is a locked brummel necessary for the loops or will a simple loop buried back into itself be strong enough? I'm just worried that if you pulled on the loop wrong you might pull the end out of the bury.

A simple bury can back out or be pulled out when not under load. You should either lock stitch the bury (http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Splice%20Instructions/Lock%20Stitching%20Whipping%20Seizing%20Procedures _SEPT2012_WEB.pdf) or use the locked brummel. The locked brummel adds strength as well.

OneThing
02-17-2013, 15:31
I'm planning on making a UCR; is a locked brummel necessary for the loops or will a simple loop buried back into itself be strong enough? I'm just worried that if you pulled on the loop wrong you might pull the end out of the bury.

It's not necessary, but... If you're worried about the bury coming out, just back stitch it. IOW, after you to the bury, it best to put it under load. Then get out some needle and thread and sew down the length of the bury. I think Sgt Rock has a good video on making UCR's where he shows how to Back Stitch.

hofer150
02-17-2013, 15:32
That's what I was thinking, just wanted to double check. Makes sense I suppose! Thank you for the help! I can't get enough of HF! So much knowledge and such generous people!

Buzz
02-20-2013, 18:15
Wow, great work. Very helpful.

BLZ2DWL
08-31-2013, 20:50
Excellent tutorial. This made my slings easy! Thanks for your help!

nlgardner12
09-03-2013, 19:40
It took a little work but I finally got it all right...I think. If I don't fall tonight we can call it a success.

Reyno2ac
09-09-2013, 19:34
What happened to the last two pictures? How does it end?

gmcttr
09-09-2013, 22:46
What happened to the last two pictures? How does it end?

You just milk the bury to finish it...see post #100, page 5......or skip to the 2 minute mark in this video...

ygCS1FI1gsw