Pictoral on a Locked Brummel

[opie]

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[SlowBro]

This all looks vaguely familiar:D
Nice job.

Doesn't the Locked Brummel derate the rope more than a straight bury?

[vitamaltz]

Sweet. I read this post on a tablet PC. My stylus is attached to the computer with larksheaded decoy line finished with a locked brummel on either end. That's a really nice concise explanation. Good photos always do the trick.

[opie]

This all looks vaguely familiar:D
Nice job.

Doesn't the Locked Brummel derate the rope more than a straight bury?

I dont think so. Knotty got an Email from Samson with some better results for whoopie deration of the cord. I forget where he posted it....

Also... I posted a picture or 2 of some 3/16 amsteel I whipped up into a whoopie sling. Clearly the larger rope suffers more deformation from bury entrances and exits.... So IM wondering if the smaller diameters dont suffer from the extreme derates as the larger.

And the destructive testing Ive done, albeit it not scientific or standardized, dont show the brummel adversely effecting the rating over a straight, stitched bury.

[OldMan]

Thanks. That's not at all what I had envisioned.

[Trooper]

Back when I used to fly gliders, this is the way the tow-lines were finished on each end. If it is strong enough to pull an aircraft, should be good enough for a hammock suspension.

[TOB9595]

Thank you for posting this tutorial Opie Tom

[UncleMJM]

The pictures help a ton. Thanks for posting.

[MacEntyre]

BTW, the two passes through the standing part, prior to the bury, are called a Marlin splice.

Marlin is two strand, twisted, tarred hemp... it is small stuff, used for a variety of things, including mousing shackles, seizing shrouds, knife lanyards and breakout ties for sails.

Being two strand, it cannot not be spliced in the traditional manner, so it is spliced with three passes through the standing part, like the two passes Opie has shown prior to the bury. It is surprisingly strong, and doesn't reduce the strength of the line much at all.

- MacEntyre, user of hemp

[WV]

Great photos. When do you taper the end? If you taper it at the start, before you first grab the tail end of the bury, and grab at the middle of the tapered part, not where it starts, then the doubled portion that is held by the fid is approximately the same thickness as the main part of the line. This makes it easier to pull the bury into the line (photos 14 and 15).

[opie]

BTW, the two passes through the standing part, prior to the bury, are called a Marlin splice.

Marlin is two strand, twisted, tarred hemp... it is small stuff, used for a variety of things, including mousing shackles, seizing shrouds, knife lanyards and breakout ties for sails.

Being two strand, it cannot not be spliced in the traditional manner, so it is spliced with three passes through the standing part, like the two passes Opie has shown prior to the bury. It is surprisingly strong, and doesn't reduce the strength of the line much at all.

- MacEntyre, user of hemp

So the part thats being called the "locked brummel" is actually a "marlin splice?"


Great photos. When do you taper the end? If you taper it at the start, before you first grab the tail end of the bury, and grab at the middle of the tapered part, not where it starts, then the doubled portion that is held by the fid is approximately the same thickness as the main part of the line. This makes it easier to pull the bury into the line (photos 14 and 15).

Sometimes I do it before I run the bury, sometimes after.

Ive found if after you grab the tail of whatever your pulling through, and turn the cut end back into the line prior to pulling through, it goes without much problem.

Like this...

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000980.jpg

Instead of this..

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/opie0074/P1000981.jpg

[MacEntyre]

So the part that's being called the "locked brummel" is actually a "marlin splice?"
The entyre eye splice is the "Locked Brummel", short for "Locked Brummel Splice". The method of locking is a Marlin splice, prior to the bury.

- MacEntyre, belaying that!

[WV]

Ahhhh! Brilliant clarification. Thanks.

[opie]

The entyre eye splice is the "Locked Brummel", short for "Locked Brummel Splice". The method of locking is a Marlin splice, prior to the bury.

- MacEntyre, belaying that!

Ahhh... Thank you!!

[Cannibal]

Nice thread!
Time to go warm up the printer. :D

[TrailH4x]

Hey Opie, found a good one for you (and any others who like a good challenge). Try your hand at a locked brummel when you only have access to one end of the rope. Step 8 is key- make you flip identicle to the image. Instructions below can be accessed directly from New England Ropes:Brummell (Single Braid Eye Splice) Instructions (http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Strand_EyeSpliceBrummel.aspx)

A "Locked Brummell Splice" may be made, using only one end of the rope, in most soft Hollow Braids, or "Cover Only" constructions using the following splice procedure:

1) From end of rope measure back 1-1/4 full fid lengths (see Fid Measurement Table) and make Mark "A".
Measure Eye size from A. to B.
Using masking tape place a wrap of tape (2”) on the end of the core tail.
Taper this by cutting the end at a 45 degree angle.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-01.gif

2) Pass end through Center of rope at Mark A.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-02.gif

3) Pull end up tight
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-03.gif

4) Pull end hard to roll “inside-out” at Mark A.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-04.gif

5) Now pass end through center of rope at Mark B. (in same direction as before).
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-05.gif

6) Pull A all the way thru and pull tight
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-06.gif

7) You now have points A.&B. rolled inside-out.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-07.gif

8) Now Un - Roll point A. working rope up and through point A. in direction shown.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-08.gif

9) Pull point B. all the way through A.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-09.gif

10) Now Un-roll Point B. working short end up & through Point B. , in direction shown.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-10.gif

11) Pull short end up -while pulling the standing end down as shown.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-11.gif

12) Continue to close-up locked Brummell Splice
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-12.gif

13) Finally, bury tail into standing end.
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-13.gif

[Knotty]

This all looks vaguely familiar:D
Nice job.

Doesn't the Locked Brummel derate the rope more than a straight bury?

Info from Samson on whoopie load derating can be found here.

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12319

[opie]

Hey Opie, found a good one for you (and any others who like a good challenge).

Is that a challenge?!

Is the guantlet lying on the ground...?:lol:

[TrailH4x]

Here are a few more splices for those hiding from the cold today (all content compliments of NER):
http://www.neropes.com/Images/splice_12strand_on.gif (http://www.neropes.com/SplGuide_CategoryLanding12Braid.aspx)


Eye Splice - Bury (http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Strand_EyeSpliceBury.aspx)
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp10_2.jpg

Eye Splice - Lock Stitch (http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12BraidEyeLockStitch.aspx)
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp12_2.gif

Eye Splice - Brummell (http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Strand_EyeSpliceBrummel.aspx)
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp13-13.gif

End for End - Bury (http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Braid_EndForEnd.aspx)
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp16_2.jpg

Eye Splice - Tuck (http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Braid_EyeSpliceTuck.aspx)
http://www.neropes.com/images/sp11_9.jpg

Megaplait-To-Chain Splice (http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Braid_Megaplait.aspx)
http://www.neropes.com/images/megaplait_8.jpg

Enjoy!!

[TrailH4x]

Is that a challenge?!

Is the guantlet lying on the ground...?:lol:

Let the challenge lie between your hands and the rope. I would never :rolleyes: pass insult on a master! Hah-hah.

Oh, and by the way, thanks for the instructional on the Brummel. Came out great!

[opie]

Let the challenge lie between your hands and the rope. I would never :rolleyes: pass insult on a master! Hah-hah.

Oh, and by the way, thanks for the instructional on the Brummel. Came out great!

Done... Its not that bad.... You want a pictoral?

[tlbj6142]

Don't forget to taper....Is that when you remove half of the strands in the last inch or so of the bury?

[opie]

Is that when you remove half of the strands in the last inch or so of the bury?

Yes.......

[tlbj6142]

Thanks for the guide. It worked great. The Lock Brummel is definitely easier than sewing in a thread lock on a "normal" loop bury. Plus it looks quite a bit nicer.

[Captn]

Does the lock stitch work without a locking thread?

[opie]

Does the lock stitch work without a locking thread?

Not sure what you mean...

Locking thread?

The stitching is only needed if you arent using the locked brummel.

[Captn]

The Locking stitch is another method that was shown in the pictures a couple of posts back.

[MacEntyre]

I think "locking", in the context of splicing, means to stitch it.

OTOH, "locking", in the context of stitching, means to double back at the ends.

:cool:

[TrailH4x]

Does the lock stitch work without a locking thread?

Yes it does :D. No seperate thread stiching is required for it (click on the hyperlinked splice names for step by step instructions).

Just ensure you are burying a full 2-1/2 fid lengths. (1 fid length = 21 x's rope diameter, or about 7 x's rope circumference ;)).

[lonetracker]

i had an old rope with a loop on one end.i took it apart and this is how it was put together.would it be used in the same applications as fixed brummel?thought someone might be interested

http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=2002
fig 1 end of rope A inserted into rope at B pulled all the way through till allmost to B as in fig 2,now end A exits loop at point C and is reinserted into rope at D to form the bury

[MacEntyre]

I like that... makes a nice covered eye, thicker than the line, and won't close up on you. Kinda like built in chafing gear. I wonder if it's stronger than a locked Brummel?

[lonetracker]

tied one allready?that looks like what i took apart.

[MacEntyre]

...that looks like what i took apart.
It should... I used your instructions.

[Knotty]

Creative idea but I'm not so sure about this approach. Wonder if it doesn't allow the loads to distribute properly along the splice and wouldn't a standard buried splice be simpler?

[MacEntyre]

Wonder if it doesn't allow the loads to distribute properly along the splice...
The bury locks, so the eye is static. The load distributes itself as usual, no differently from a locked Brummel.

The question is, which is weaker, the two marlin splice passes through the standing part in a locked Brummel, or the split in this doubled eye?

[opie]

I like that... makes a nice covered eye, thicker than the line, and won't close up on you. Kinda like built in chafing gear. I wonder if it's stronger than a locked Brummel?

That looks interesting.

I think it doesnt weaken the splice anymore thanthe Locked Brummel. Looks cool, but doesnt look to have any more fucntionality.

[MacEntyre]

...doesnt look to have any more fucntionality.
1. eye holds open better
2. eye has a core for strength
3. eye has a sheath for protection
4. eye is stronger (according to MacEntyre:lol:)
5. eye can't be pulled apart

[opie]

1. eye holds open better
2. eye has a core for strength
3. eye has a sheath for protection
4. eye is stronger (according to MacEntyre:lol:)
5. eye can't be pulled apart

Not to nit pick... That was just my opinion...

1. Holds open better for what? And after you weight it, does it spring back open?

2. I wouldnt call it a sheath. Because once you wear through it, you have effectively put the eye into unusefullness. Isnt the "sheath" part of the locking system?

3. It no stronger than its weakest link. Unless this is an eye to eye splice. If its in a whoopie config, the weak link is the exit of the adjustable bury.

4. See number 2 above. And the eye cant be pulled apart in a proper Locked Brummel either, unless your trying to get it apart. I would imagine if one was trying to get this one apart, they could.

But like I said.. It looks cool!!! And thats worth its weight in gold.

And I need to work on my spelling...

[MacEntyre]

Not to nit pick... That was just my opinion...
Of course!

1. Holds open better for what? And after you weight it, does it spring back open?
For putting it onto things... certainly it will open and remain open better than a single part. You have to be an old salt to appreciate eyes that hold open. I used to lasso spiles with 2" ropes, and the eye that didn't hold open made me look bad. I'll show you in another post how to make an eye that holds open, and is locked to some extent.

2. I wouldnt call it a sheath. Because once you wear through it, you have effectively put the eye into unusefullness. Isnt the "sheath" part of the locking system?
Nope, ope... the eye doesn't lock. The bury in the standing part locks.

3. It no stronger than its weakest link. Unless this is an eye to eye splice. If its in a whoopie config, the weak link is the exit of the adjustable bury.
True, however, the eye itself is stronger than a single part eye, for whatever that is worth.

4. See number 2 above. And the eye cant be pulled apart in a proper Locked Brummel either, unless your trying to get it apart. I would imagine if one was trying to get this one apart, they could.
Point conceded regarding pulling the eye apart.

But like I said.. It looks cool!!! And thats worth its weight in gold.
Yes! I agree! I like it a lot!

And I need to work on my spelling...
Off topic. Watch out, AS might be on this thread.

[MacEntyre]

This is how we used to make hold-open eyes in mooring lines, so we could lasso spiles. There is more to lassoing spiles than this... you have to know how to coil the line, how to throw it, how to release it, and what to do for different things you lasso, such as cleats, bollards, bits, pilings, people...

[opie]

I can definetely see the usefullness in your description.

And I didnt see "how" it locks till I just took another closer look.

That is cool.

[Knotty]

lonetracker's name may destined for the knot books!

[gargoyle]

Anyone done some destructive testing on this "new" lonetracker loop? Curious on how much stronger, if at all, this eye is over a conventional eye. Also, this new eye uses more rope, is it really an advantage?

[IndyDan]

Question:
Can you use a plastic nylon wire tie to lock the bury?

[opie]

Question:
Can you use a plastic nylon wire tie to lock the bury?

I suppose you could. So long as its as small as possible.

[MacEntyre]

...not very yar. :(

[oldgringo]

...not very yar. :(

No, it's not. But then, synthetic cordage in every color under the sun isn't either.

[opie]

OK... I cant seem to find the acronym thread... what is "yar?"

[oldgringo]

English[edit] EtymologyFrom Old English gearu (“‘ready’”), from Old High German garo (“‘ready’”)

[edit] Adjectiveyar (comparative yarer, superlative yarest)

Positive
yar
Comparative
yarer
Superlative
yarest


1.(nautical) Especially of a sailboat, of a vessel which is quick, and agile. Of one which is easy to hand, reef and steer.
1940 My, she was yar...It means, uh...easy to handle, quick to the helm, fast, right. Everything a boat should be, until she develops dry rot. - The Philadelphia Story written by Philip Barry
1958, Bulletin of the John Rylands Library
...to make a ship best weighed, or yarest in her going.
1993 Arr, here be a fine vessel the yarest river-going boat there be. - Captain McAllister The Simpsons ep. 1F06

[opie]

Let it be known I learned something today.

[MacEntyre]

At Mystic Seaport, when a vessel is in good trim, things are where they belong, and the ropework is all as it should be, they call it "yar".

In Edgartown, when a yacht is bright, the fiberglass is clean and the lines are all coiled down where they belong, they call it "Bristol fashion."

In Newfoundland, when a window in the pilothouse breaks, they stuff a rag in it... that's not yar.

A traditional doubled-thread whipping with barrel stitches to seize a splice is yar. An electrician's tie wrap is not.

.

[opie]

Got it. :D

[Knotty]

...not very yar. :(

Couldn't agree more. There's just something right about doing ropework right. A needle and thread or floss is all it takes stitch a bury. It's a time proven technique.

[OldMan]

Hey Opie, found a good one for you (and any others who like a good challenge). Try your hand at a locked brummel when you only have access to one end of the rope.

Not as easy as having both ends free, but doable. Unrolling the pull throughs is the challenging part.

[opie]

Not as easy as having both ends free, but doable. Unrolling the pull throughs is the challenging part.

Yep. Especially with the smaller lines like 1.75.

[OldMan]

Yep. Especially with the smaller lines like 1.75.

That would take a lot more dexterity and eyesight that I have available to me. The 1/8 inch amsteel is pushing my limits.

[TZBrown]

:confused: Yep... I pondered it for about half an hour before figuring it out.

Pushing one of my wires out of the line, then putting it through the eye then back through the original hole in the line to pull the eye through.

Then unrolling to get it straight and continue the last step.

Once accomplished it felt pretty good :D

TZ

[sonic]

that might have something to do with the old pirate saying. "Yar Maty!!!":D
well shiver me timbers

[eflat7]

Thanks Opie! I finally gave this a shot. The first took me awhile and was not easy. Finally, I have it down pat and replaced the rope on my eno with one of these. Being a bigger person, I was really nervous to test this. I did so as my wife videotaped because she didn't want to miss a chance at a 10,000 $ video!!

It worked perfectly. I aprreciate you taking the time to type it all up.

[opie]

Thanks Opie! I finally gave this a shot. The first took me awhile and was not easy. Finally, I have it down pat and replaced the rope on my eno with one of these. Being a bigger person, I was really nervous to test this. I did so as my wife videotaped because she didn't want to miss a chance at a 10,000 $ video!!

It worked perfectly. I aprreciate you taking the time to type it all up.

Certainly... I enjoy sharing ideas when I can get my mind wrapped around it. Its not always easy.

[Hooch]

Opie, thanks a million for posting the tutorial and pics on this. It was a lot simpler than I thought it was after looking at it and playing around with it here. I just made 2 sets of Whoopie Slings with fixed eye brummels on the end to atach to the hammock. Super easy project once you get started on it and get going. Thanks for sharing!

[opie]

My pleasure Hooch. Its the least I can do for a community thats done so much for me.

[dant8ro]

I made an excel file tor Whoopie newbs like myself who were unaware of what an Fid was until recently. The file shows a picture of the parts of a whoopie sling and uses the samson - amsteel rope instructions to calculate all the safe bury sizes for whatever diameter of cord you select. Probably not that useful as most everyone uses 7/64 but PM me if you want it!:)

[tiredhiker]

Thanks opie that was a great tutorial, I just got a bunch of amsteel to make some whoopie slings, that will help alot.... tiredhiker

[Silverlion]

Sweet post. Now I know how to do it! I'm ordering my Amsteel this weekend and converting my HH to WS. Thanks!

[jeepcachr]

Awesome pics, great step by step tutorial.

I like to put the end of my splicing tool in a vice. Then you can work the rope onto it using both hands. I think my spicing tool is slightly heavier wire (from a clothes hanger) which despite the bigger size I think makes it easier for the bury because it's stiffer to work the rope over.

[opie]

jeep, the leader wire is pretty stiff. I never had it kink or otherwise become disconfigured during use. I could easily go through 1200-1600 foot of rope on 1 tool.

[natureboy68]

super easy! just did it! thanks!

[solobear]

I made an excel file tor Whoopie newbs like myself who were unaware of what an Fid was until recently. The file shows a picture of the parts of a whoopie sling and uses the samson - amsteel rope instructions to calculate all the safe bury sizes for whatever diameter of cord you select. Probably not that useful as most everyone uses 7/64 but PM me if you want it!:)

I'd really like one,
thanks...
SB
[email protected]

[thekid]

I made two closed loop Locked Brummel and I think it will work great from the whipped end of the hammock to the Dutch biner to whoopie sling

[BackpackingBoomer]

whoopies rock!

[hikelite]

Thanks for posting this Opie. I used your excellent pictures to make my first sling last night. :)

[opie]

hike, Im glad this is still valuable to the community.

[Mike210]

I initially made 2 whoopie slings using simple buried eyes I was going to lock by stitching but went back and used the method of turning the rope inside out to turn them into locked brummels. Then used the normal method to make 2 more slings. This thread was invaluable in doing both of those operations.

One question. In my mind the bury after the locking splices seems only to be a way to dispose of the excess cord. Is this bury structural? And if so, what percentage of the brummels strength comes from the locking splices and what percentage from the bury. Just wondering as I used minimal buries and am hoping I don't have to undo these and make them again with longer buries.

[jeepcachr]

One question. In my mind the bury after the locking splices seems only to be a way to dispose of the excess cord. Is this bury structural? And if so, what percentage of the brummels strength comes from the locking splices and what percentage from the bury. Just wondering as I used minimal buries and am hoping I don't have to undo these and make them again with longer buries.
Someone will likely correct me if I'm wrong. I thought the strength came from the bury. The locked brummel wouldn't be necessary for a static load. The reason for the lock is to prevent the bury from creeping under dynamic load. Over time it could creep out. I'm not sure what the minimum safe bury is, I always over bury. I don't weigh grams or count pennys with my gear. Though looking at it now I don't see how a locked brummel can come apart assuming a couple inches of tail. I definitely wouldn't go crazy short.

Yup I know no help at all...

[opie]

I initially made 2 whoopie slings using simple buried eyes I was going to lock by stitching but went back and used the method of turning the rope inside out to turn them into locked brummels. Then used the normal method to make 2 more slings. This thread was invaluable in doing both of those operations.

One question. In my mind the bury after the locking splices seems only to be a way to dispose of the excess cord. Is this bury structural? And if so, what percentage of the brummels strength comes from the locking splices and what percentage from the bury. Just wondering as I used minimal buries and am hoping I don't have to undo these and make them again with longer buries.

The bury is where the load is carried. The marlin splice will support a fair amount of load, but the majority of the strength comes from the bury.

Your bury length starts AFTER your taper. i.e. start measuring for your bury past where the taper stops. The tapered part of the line is not considered part of the bury.

Proper bury length is 21x the rope diameter or 7x circumference.

[hikelite]

The bury is where the load is carried. The marlin splice will support a fair amount of load, but the majority of the strength comes from the bury.

Your bury length starts AFTER your taper. i.e. start measuring for your bury past where the taper stops. The tapered part of the line is not considered part of the bury.

Proper bury length is 21x the rope diameter or 7x circumference.

hmmm my fixed ends might be a bit short then. I think the amount not tapered is probably only ~1.5-2" on 7/64 Amsteel. They don't appear to be danger of failing though. I thought by threading the rope through itself, that would also provide some of the strength. The bury just keeps it from coming apart, no?

[Mike210]

Thanks opie for the explanation on what is carrying the load. I should be ok on my buries as I buried about 3" plus the taper. I did the math and 1 fid on 7/64 Amsteel works out to 2.29". Not as much safety factor as I thought I had but should still be enough.

[opie]

hmmm my fixed ends might be a bit short then. I think the amount not tapered is probably only ~1.5-2" on 7/64 Amsteel. They don't appear to be danger of failing though. I thought by threading the rope through itself, that would also provide some of the strength. The bury just keeps it from coming apart, no?

Youre backwords... The marlin splice keeps it from coming apart. Without the marlin splice you would need to lockstitch the bury so under no or light loads it doesnt pull out.

There is an added benefit of the marlin splice being able to carry some load, but its intention is to lock the splice.

[crow]

Thank you for the guide, I've never done this before and this made it a breeze.

[creativeKayt]

Here is a video response to these instructions.
Thank you very much, Opie, SlowBro, and Crazy Bear (and everybuggy else here who contributed fantastic instructions)!!

I couldn't of learned how to do this without your great instructions!!
:thumbup: You all rock da mic!!!

Sli3Wc6Dtcw

[dragon360]

Hi creativeKayt - watched the video - great fun! I had a quick question. I grabbed some mason's line from HD a while back - Lehigh in pink - but i find that the braid is way too tight for any splicing. Mind if I ask what type you are using?

[creativeKayt]

Sure. It's the "MARSHALL TOWN Premier Line 500 ft. Florescent Yellow Braided Mason's Line." You can get it to squish inward and loosen up a lot.

Link: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100318177/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

[dragon360]

Thank you. Going to see if it makes the difference. Seems it will.

[creativeKayt]

You bet! Always happy to help a fellow dragon out! Heh heh.
Let us know how you get on with it.
:)

[PackBacker81]

Nice instructions gang... gotta get some line to try this out :thumbup:

[SmokeHouse]

very nice,,, thanks for the pictures and details.

[countryboy]

Big NOOB, here...

This is actually my first post...

Anyway, some friends used hammocks at a big camping get together we had last Fall and I was smitten. Read Speer's book and then bought a sewing machine.

Long story short, found this site a few days ago and the threads have been invaluable. Earlier today I finished my sixth hammock (me, wife and four boys...) and started trying to sort our the rigging. While searching for whoopie sling info I found this thread! Perfect. This evening I tied six sets of slings with the Amsteel that came in yesterday! Just watched creativeKayt's video and know how I'll be doing my tarp tie-downs.

Just have to settle on a design for the tarps and I'll start sewing them!!

Thanks again!!

CB

[Terry_Dodson]

creativeKayt great video, any chance you can make one showing how you did the 2nd loop? :)

[hikelite]

Big NOOB, here...

This is actually my first post...

Anyway, some friends used hammocks at a big camping get together we had last Fall and I was smitten. Read Speer's book and then bought a sewing machine.

Long story short, found this site a few days ago and the threads have been invaluable. Earlier today I finished my sixth hammock (me, wife and four boys...) and started trying to sort our the rigging. While searching for whoopie sling info I found this thread! Perfect. This evening I tied six sets of slings with the Amsteel that came in yesterday! Just watched creativeKayt's video and know how I'll be doing my tarp tie-downs.

Just have to settle on a design for the tarps and I'll start sewing them!!

Thanks again!!

CB

That's awesome! Welcome to the forum. You got a lot done already for a first post!

Please make a thread and post pics of your projects. We all love to see each others' work.

[d-p]

All,
In case you missed ... scroll back to CreativeKayt's uTube with mason line ...
THEN, clik her website ...............

Took my breath away !

dp
www.dphammockgear.com

[creativeKayt]

Ahhh :blush: thanks. Gosh.

More videos are coming. I'll make sure I capture another one of me doing both ends, but basically, I did both ends exactly the same. I've been traveling and unable to put some new ones together. But after this next week, I'll get back to it!

:D

[grizzlybeare]

I am using a foot long piece of amsteel with locked brummel splices at both ands rahter than a continuous loop as the attachment points on my hammock.
Should I Have any strencgth concerns? Is it better to use a continuous loop?

for clarification I have an ENO with the double eye through the channel. Then one eye through the other and pulled tight .

thank guys

Grizzlybeare

[hppyfngy]

I am using a foot long piece of amsteel with locked brummel splices at both ands rahter than a continuous loop as the attachment points on my hammock.
Should I Have any strencgth concerns? Is it better to use a continuous loop?

for clarification I have an ENO with the double eye through the channel. Then one eye through the other and pulled tight .

thank guys

Grizzlybeare

You mean something like this?

http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/files/1/1/4/2/1/003medium_thumb.jpg (http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=15114&c=4)
I've used this for attachments with descending rings.

[Diz]

Great tutorial. Now how about the spliced loop chain link?

[Diz]

never mind I found it "Continuous Loop pictoral" way cool.

[jbrianb]

Great pictorial, Opie. Love it when you guys learn me sump'n new.

[Patrick]

Splicing newbie question.

The final two pictures in the original post aren't showing up for me. The last one is with the bury squished up and the tail sticking out just a little. I assume that pulling the whole thing taut will suck the tail inside the bury?

Is anything else needed to ensure everything is yar and won't slip over time?

[Funkyleebasick]

thank you, that makes it look easier

[opie]

Splicing newbie question.

The final two pictures in the original post aren't showing up for me. The last one is with the bury squished up and the tail sticking out just a little. I assume that pulling the whole thing taut will suck the tail inside the bury?

Is anything else needed to ensure everything is yar and won't slip over time?

You are correct, and no.

[Billybobky]

Great tutorial.

[Bodhi]

Great pictorial, thanks!

[c0wb0y_hubs]

I must admit that I haven't read all 11 pages of this thread, but I thought this guys video was very helpful when creating a locked brummel with only one end of the cord is available. His application is winch line, but the only difference is the size of amsteel.

VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU1b1iYgdgw)

[opie]

Thats me too!!

[fly-chucker]

going to build ridge lines for my tarp (2x), using zing-it. Wondering if I need to use the locked brummel or a plain old eye splice? Same for the guy lines?

[JaxHiker]

I must admit that I haven't read all 11 pages of this thread, but I thought this guys video was very helpful when creating a locked brummel with only one end of the cord is available. His application is winch line, but the only difference is the size of amsteel.

VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU1b1iYgdgw)

Yup, Opie's vid rocks. I finally needed the one-end video last week and I was surprised I was able to do it on the smaller line.

fwiw I always do the locked brummel for eye splices.

[fly-chucker]

Pulled my new superfly and zing-it out of the box and am starting to put together my guy-lines.

With a locked brummel for a guy-line, how long of a bury do I need?

[JaxHiker]

I just made some new guy lines for my new JRB 10x11. I only made the bury about 1". It's based purely on unscientific guessing. ;)

[Charlz9mm]

This was awesome. Really helped a lot. I have one sling done so far.

[BearBurrito]

Thanks for the tutorial. Did my first splice using amsteel tonight.:)

[Tigger]

Made some whoopie slings using these photos, much easier to follow than a written description, Thanks very much Jeff

[yessirre]

Gonna try using this on tarp tie out lines to make neat permanent attachment of the whoopies to the tarp! thanks Jeff

[simply_light]

Works like a charm.

[hofer150]

I'm planning on making a UCR; is a locked brummel necessary for the loops or will a simple loop buried back into itself be strong enough? I'm just worried that if you pulled on the loop wrong you might pull the end out of the bury.

[gmcttr]

I'm planning on making a UCR; is a locked brummel necessary for the loops or will a simple loop buried back into itself be strong enough? I'm just worried that if you pulled on the loop wrong you might pull the end out of the bury.

A simple bury can back out or be pulled out when not under load. You should either lock stitch the bury (http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Splice%20Instructions/Lock%20Stitching%20Whipping%20Seizing%20Procedures _SEPT2012_WEB.pdf) or use the locked brummel. The locked brummel adds strength as well.

[OneThing]

I'm planning on making a UCR; is a locked brummel necessary for the loops or will a simple loop buried back into itself be strong enough? I'm just worried that if you pulled on the loop wrong you might pull the end out of the bury.

It's not necessary, but... If you're worried about the bury coming out, just back stitch it. IOW, after you to the bury, it best to put it under load. Then get out some needle and thread and sew down the length of the bury. I think Sgt Rock has a good video on making UCR's where he shows how to Back Stitch.

[hofer150]

That's what I was thinking, just wanted to double check. Makes sense I suppose! Thank you for the help! I can't get enough of HF! So much knowledge and such generous people!

[Buzz]

Wow, great work. Very helpful.

[BLZ2DWL]

Excellent tutorial. This made my slings easy! Thanks for your help!

[nlgardner12]

It took a little work but I finally got it all right...I think. If I don't fall tonight we can call it a success.

[Reyno2ac]

What happened to the last two pictures? How does it end?

[gmcttr]

What happened to the last two pictures? How does it end?

You just milk the bury to finish it...see post #100, page 5......or skip to the 2 minute mark in this video...

ygCS1FI1gsw

[SutterButtes]

Unfortunately the pics in this pictoral are "currently unavailable."

I've been researching splicing all day. However I haven't been able to find the answer to a specific question regarding locked brummels.

I've read multiple threads on the subject. I've also watched several video tutorials, and this is where my question originates. I have seen demonstrated 2 ways of splicing locked brummels. I'm not 100% sure it makes a difference but I could have sworn I had read about this subject a year or so ago and that there was a right way and a wrong way to do it.

The difference lies in how much of the end you bring through the first awl hole. One way shows that you bring the first end through until your mark for the second hole comes through the first hole. The other shows you bring the end through the first hole but stop before you bring the mark through hole.

Can anyone who understands such things tell me which of these are correct or if they are both valid?

Thank you in advance!

[P-Dub]

This (https://l-36.com/brummel2.php) would probably be the best source -- a website for sailing that has good instructions for splicing various things.

(Including a variety of soft shackles (https://l-36.com/soft_shackles.php?menu=4), though newer versions have been developed for hammocking -- see Evo Loops, etc.)

[SutterButtes]

This (https://l-36.com/brummel2.php) would probably be the best source -- a website for sailing that has good instructions for splicing various things.

(Including a variety of soft shackles (https://l-36.com/soft_shackles.php?menu=4), though newer versions have been developed for hammocking -- see Evo Loops, etc.)

Thank you P-Dub for the links. The instructions for the Brummel Eye Splice on that page look very interesting. However they seem completely different from what I was talking about.

Maybe it would help if I explain myself a little better. I made continuous loops for my hammocks last year. It was my first and only splicing project but it was pretty easy. I followed the instructions in a video recommended on the list of splicing tutorials. The one by TheBrewGuy. (I will copy and paste the link here and hope it works since I've never included links in a post before.)
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php/69326-Video-Amsteel-Continuous-Loop

Now I want to make an adjustable UCR ridgeline for my hammock. While watching videos on how to make a UCR I saw that the locked brummel was done differently. Thus my doubt on how they should be done (especially if I did the CLs wrong on my hammocks, though I haven't had any problems yet.)

For examples please contrast the video posted by TheBrewGuy in the link I (hopefully) posted above at 4:36 and the following video on how to make UCRs posted by TacBlades at 4:16. https://youtu.be/W-_qsRXXLsU (Again hoping the link works!)

So my questions are these: Are all 3 of these techniques viable (including the one from the L-36 website suggested by P-Dub in the previous post?) Are they all "Locked Brummels"? Do they all function the same way? If there is a difference, which do I want to use for CLs and UCRs? Do I need make new CLs for my hammocks or are they safe as is?

Sorry for all the doubts and questions. I've tried to find the answer but haven't found anything referencing these differences.

Thank you again P-Dub for your response. I really do appreciate it.

[nanok]

you are wise to be concerned, nice to see some people exercise some caution here, too ;).

this thread should be "unstickied" as the tutorial is quite pointless without the pictures.


Thank you P-Dub for the links. The instructions for the Brummel Eye Splice on that page look very interesting. However they seem completely different from what I was talking about.

Maybe it would help if I explain myself a little better. I made continuous loops for my hammocks last year. It was my first and only splicing project but it was pretty easy. I followed the instructions in a video recommended on the list of splicing tutorials. The one by TheBrewGuy. (I will copy and paste the link here and hope it works since I've never included links in a post before.)
https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php/69326-Video-Amsteel-Continuous-Loop


what is shown in that video is what i would call a brummel unlock, in other words it is utterly useless. the point of putting a brummel lock is to stop the burry from coming apart (and the loop opening) when the splice is not under tension, this means that, if the brummel lock is to be any use, pulling the loop or what have you apart before you burry the tails should just result in the brummel getting tight, not in the loop opening.

in the case of the video above, if you pull then the loop will open, so that might be looking similar to a brummel, but a lock it is not, and it won't do the job.. a continuous loop made using that technique is indeed unsafe, especially one which would be hidden inside the sewn channels of a hammock (so won't get visually inspected "incidentally"). an alternative to a functional brummel is to stitch the burryes to stop them from pulling out. this method of making a brummel is not an alternative though (you might as well not bother, and burry the tails without making the "fake brummel", the effect would be the same)



Now I want to make an adjustable UCR ridgeline for my hammock. While watching videos on how to make a UCR I saw that the locked brummel was done differently. Thus my doubt on how they should be done (especially if I did the CLs wrong on my hammocks, though I haven't had any problems yet.)

For examples please contrast the video posted by TheBrewGuy in the link I (hopefully) posted above at 4:36 and the following video on how to make UCRs posted by TacBlades at 4:16. https://youtu.be/W-_qsRXXLsU (Again hoping the link works!)


thanks for posting the timestamp, that's considerate. indeed this is one of the correct ways to make a locked brummel. think of how that eye loop will be loaded in real use, and think "will the tail pull out, or will the burmmel tighten on itself when loaded?", the tail being the short end which gets burried inside the long end.



So my questions are these: Are all 3 of these techniques viable (including the one from the L-36 website suggested by P-Dub in the previous post?) Are they all "Locked Brummels"? Do they all function the same way? If there is a difference, which do I want to use for CLs and UCRs? Do I need make new CLs for my hammocks or are they safe as is?

Sorry for all the doubts and questions. I've tried to find the answer but haven't found anything referencing these differences.

Thank you again P-Dub for your response. I really do appreciate it.

again, think of the use of the splice you are making, and think what will happen in actual use, imagining the burry of the splice becomes loose/comes out. will the brummel be tightened by tension, or will it be pulled apart. if it will be pulled apart, then it's most lickely not what you want (there are exceptions, but nevermind), and it most definitely makes it an un-locked-brummel (or is it an un-locked un-brummel?)

hope this helps clarify it

edit: one more note which appies specifically to continuous loops: making a nice "inline" brummel is topologically impossible (without rebraiding the rope), so a locked brummel for a continuous loop that actually works will always look ugly and bulky, as it is "flipped over", so it's impossible to mess it up with a continuous loop, once you've made one and see what it looks like.

[SutterButtes]

Thank you nanok for your reply.

I have created a new thread to specifically address my questions above. Hopefully I explained it better the third time. :D

https://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php/159901-Splicing-question



Edit to add: Unfortunately I can't edit my original question to include a link to the new thread. So in the interest of keeping all the information together to make it easier for people in the future I will ask here that anyone who would like to respond to my questions regarding locked brummels please do so in the new thread I linked above in this post. Thank you very much.