2QZQ Under Quilt Protector (Sleeping Pad version) Compatible with Dutch Chameleon

[bigbenny]

I have many questions regarding the UQP: -

1. Is the 2QZQ Under Quilt Protector, sleeping pad version, compatible with the Dutchware Chameleon?
2. Which version is compatible (or a better match): UnderQuilt Protectors or UnderQuilt Protector for WB XLC/Wooki UQ?
3. What is the weight of the UQP Pad version (that's the best fit)?
4. Can the UQP Pad version still be used to protect an Under Quilt (e.g. can you use it with a sleeping pad or with an under quilt)?
5. If I needed to go-to-ground, how suitable would the UQP be at performing double-duty as a groundsheet? Would it be too fragile? Would provide ground water protection, stopping running water from getting inside the hammock (in bivy mode)?
6. Is it's fabric suitable for this ground-sheet purpose- I'm thinking it's not waterproof and hence not suitable (is that right?)
7. I'm thinking that for cold weather a UQP needs to be breathable, and for the floor in a rain-storm it needs to be waterproof, so hence the fabric would need to be waterproof/breathable, and IIUC that would make an Argon 90 or Multicam Quantum UQP unsuitable as a ground sheet in wet weather (is that right?)

I'd like to get a single-layer Chameleon and then create a pocket under it for a sleeping pad.

This way appeals to me for several reasons: -

1. I can use a sleeping pad with the Chameleon.
2. It's slightly lighter than a double-layer Chameleon (assuming it weighs 5.4ozs).
3. I can leave the UQP behind if I don't need it
4. I can use the UQP to protect an Under Quilt still (right?)
5. I could store some gear in it, if I wanted (under the sleeping pad, or off the cordage)
6. It should work with different thickness sleeping pads, like a 9cm / 3.5" inflatable Exped downmat
7. If suitable, it could be used as a groundsheet (as questioned above, I'm thinking this is a "no").

Thanks for the help,
BigBenny

[2Questions]

Hi BigBenny,
I received your email earlier. I had to run errands and just got back home. I will respond to the email and answer your questions a bit later. If anyone wants to chime in with answers...feel free to do so!
Donna
Two quick answers...the UQP will not work as a ground sheet...it is not waterproof. The fabric used is water/wind resistant and breathable. And...the standard UQP will work on all length hammocks, it is designed to cover a UQ. The UQP for the XLC/Wooki was designed/lengthened to cover the Wooki since this UQ fabric goes end to end on the hammock. Most, if not all other UQs are shorter, with the suspension spanning the distance from the UQ to the hammock ends.

[SilvrSurfr]

I'd like to get a single-layer Chameleon and then create a pocket under it for a sleeping pad.

Why not get a double layer if you intend to use a pad?

[Cory Hess]

I have a 2QZQ UQP that I use with my Chameleon and they work together perfectly. I also have the sleeping pad version. I don't have access to it right now to weight it. It can be used to protect an underquilt. I believe, though I'm not certain on this, that the only difference between the models is that the pad version has thicker shock cord to be able to support the sleeping pad. As 2Q has already said, the UQP would not make a good ground sheet.

I had basically the same thoughts as you. I started with a single layer Chameleon and wanted to have the option to use a sleeping pad. This allows me to do so, or to use an underquilt and keep it protected. It will accomplish everything you're looking for with the exception of the ground sheet. It's a great product and 2QZQ are fantastic to work with. I'd highly recommend it.

[2Questions]

I just responded to your email. Please let me know if you do not receive it.
Thank you!
Donna

[Burg54]

I have experience with both the older version and newer UQP that supports a sleeping pad. I LOVE my 2QZQ UQP but do not use it with a pad as I have UQs. To be honest I was kind of disappointed in how it held the pad. It did not hold it near as firm as I would have liked. It was a bit saggy. The UQP for a pad was not as beefy as I think it should be for that purpose. I think its a backup solution at best for that.

If it were me, I would get a DL hammock if I knew i was going to use a pad full time. Or save up $150 and get a HG Econ UQ if you really want a single layer. Then get an UQP when funds allow.

[bigbenny]

@Donna / 2Q

Thanks for the quick reply here and the email.

Thanks for the clarification that the UQP won't work as a ground-sheet. I was starting to come to that conclusion, but being new wasn't sure.

I see that it might not work, or work very well, if the pad is very thick (9cm/3.5")...

Thanks for the support, I agree with the others that your support is excellent.


@Cory Hess
Do you use your UQP with a pad or with an UQ? How thick was the pad and was it an inflatable type?


@Burg54

Thanks for the honest feedback. Perhaps you are right I should get the double-layer since I'm planning to use a pad on trips. I was hoping that the UQP would perform as well as a double-layer and be a modular option. Other threads I found earlier all had positive results.



@SilvrSurfr

Why not get a double layer if you intend to use a pad?

I can leave the UQP behind if I don't need it, I can't do the same with the 2nd layer in a double-layer.
There's a possibility the UQP is lighter than the difference between a single-layer and a double-layer.
I can use the UQP to protect an UQ when I use an UQ

I could store some gear in it, like clothes. I think this would be easier (and work better) on an UQP then on a double-layer hammock.
Since the UQP is suspended separately, it could hold different thickness pads. I've read that most double-layers are not gusseted. I'm not sure which would work better.

I was interested in the UQP performing double-duty as a groundsheet when I need to go-to-ground. Being cinched up and curved, I was hoping it would act similar to a bathtub groundsheet, where it protects the contents from getting wet from running ground water. From this thread I now know this idea is busted.



------------------

I am debating going single-layer or double-layer now. Either way I still plan to get a UQP for it's many benefits, such as blocking wind, and protecting an UQ (when I get one).

[2Questions]

Bigbenny,
We only know of success using the UQP that will support a pad. The hammock forums members that were my testers reported that it worked great. If the shock cord ends and both side shock cords are cinched tight enough...but not too tight...the UQP should hold a pad in place. I'm not sure what caused @Burg54's dissatisfaction using the UQP with his pad. I would be interested in a PM from him so we can work through his issues. He might have some insight that I might need to consider and make an adjustment with the design.
Also...I'm not saying that the UQP wouldn't work with your thicker pad...I just don't know enough to say for sure.
Donna

[Cory Hess]

After your questions I feel like I should clarify my experience. I originally bought the UQP because I had just gotten my first hammock and wanted to get some hang time before I committed the funds for an UQP. I already had a pad, so I figured that this would give me a starting point. The pad I used is an Alps Mountaineering Featherlite, which is an inflatable that is listed as a 3.5" pad. The UQP held it under me just fine. I didn't notice a huge amount of shifting. I will say that it wasn't held super tight against me, but I can't say how it compares to a double layer hammock in that regard as I've never owned a double layer hammock. I was very happy with my experience using the pad in the UQP, and it was much more comfortable and stable than using the pad inside of the hammock.

The UQP also blocks the wind from hitting the bottom of the hammock. In a naked hammock I start to get chilly if the temp drops below 70. I have been fine with just the UQP down to the low 60s. There are some reports that it will extend the lower range of an underquilt, but I can't speak to that.

I received the UQP in the beginning of August, and haven't had an occasion to use it in the field with an underquilt to this point. It just hasn't been cool enough for me to need to carry an underquilt. However, that is my plan for this fall and I don't see any reason to doubt that it will perform well in that duty.

I do feel that once I get more experienced and comfortable with my tarp setup I probably won't need the UQP protector. However, I think that it's worth carrying for now for peace of mind given it's small price and light weight.

I hope that this helps. I will try to get some pictures some time this week so that you can see how it looks with my pad.

[bigbenny]

Bigbenny,
Also...I'm not saying that the UQP wouldn't work with your thicker pad...I just don't know enough to say for sure.
Donna

I get you. After reading Cory's post it seems confirmed that it works with 3.5". Also, I like that you care about all feedback and continual improvement, bravo. Hopefully the info @burg54 mentioned already helps.



After your questions I feel like I should clarify my experience. I originally bought the UQP because I had just gotten my first hammock and wanted to get some hang time before I committed the funds for an UQP. I already had a pad, so I figured that this would give me a starting point. The pad I used is an Alps Mountaineering Featherlite, which is an inflatable that is listed as a 3.5" pad. The UQP held it under me just fine. I didn't notice a huge amount of shifting. I will say that it wasn't held super tight against me, but I can't say how it compares to a double layer hammock in that regard as I've never owned a double layer hammock. I was very happy with my experience using the pad in the UQP, and it was much more comfortable and stable than using the pad inside of the hammock.

The UQP also blocks the wind from hitting the bottom of the hammock. In a naked hammock I start to get chilly if the temp drops below 70. I have been fine with just the UQP down to the low 60s. There are some reports that it will extend the lower range of an underquilt, but I can't speak to that.

I received the UQP in the beginning of August, and haven't had an occasion to use it in the field with an underquilt to this point. It just hasn't been cool enough for me to need to carry an underquilt. However, that is my plan for this fall and I don't see any reason to doubt that it will perform well in that duty.

I do feel that once I get more experienced and comfortable with my tarp setup I probably won't need the UQP protector. However, I think that it's worth carrying for now for peace of mind given it's small price and light weight.

I hope that this helps. I will try to get some pictures some time this week so that you can see how it looks with my pad.


That's good info, and confirms that it works with a 3.5" pad. Thank you. I have zero experience but from what I've read it can help with splashing under the tarp, so you might find it still has more utility than just peace of mind.

That would be great, I'd love to see photos of it with the pad.


This brings me to another question I have that is about UQPs in general. If I understand correctly, they are to keep the UQ dry, from splash and horizontal precipitation etc., and to block wind, and as a side effect it adds a little extra warmth. These all sound pretty desirable, so why is it that an UQ doesn't have it's outer shell made from the same material as an UQP? Why aren't UQ already wind-proof and with DWR?

I read that Argon90 resists wind, sheds water, is breathable, and has DWR, and is designed to be used for the outer (and inner) shell of quilts. I haven't heavily research quilts yet since I'm planning to start with a pad, so I'm not sure what is typical of the shells. Is it more the fact that it's a second shell, so precipitation and wind has to penetrate 2 layers of Argon90 (or similar) that makes the difference? Or is it the Argon90 making the difference?

Sorry to ask so many questions. I am trying to read up on things, but there is a lot to learn.

[2Questions]

UQs and UQPs are both made with the same types of fabric. It is much easier to wash an UQP than it is to wash a UQ. So...protecting your investment in a UQ is why the UQP came to be. The UQP doesn't add warmth...it helps to keep the warmth your body generates in the UQ...thus creating a warmer sleeping environment. This is why it is important to have the UQP breathable to avoid condensation issues.
Donna

[Cory Hess]

Here are some quick pictures of my Chameleon with the UQP and my pad. The pad is the long and wide version, so it's dimensions are 24x77x3.5. If you were to use a standard 20x72 pad I think it would work even better, but this is what I have from tent camping. I always feel like I'm falling off of a 20" pad when I'm sleeping on the ground.

http://i.imgur.com/LzkQTNWl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0RDVIVSl.jpg

I tried to do my best to add weight so that you can see how the UQP works with a loaded hammock. It doesn't do a great job, but you can get the idea.

To hang the UQP I put the end shockcord through my whoopie hooks, and I would think you could do the same with beetle buckles if you use those. I then run the shockcord through the first set of quilt hooks. This helps it spread out on the ends.

http://i.imgur.com/CsL5MZLl.jpg

Then I put my pad in and hop in and cinch the sides up until I'm making contact with the pad. I tried to shoot a picture from inside to show that the hammock is indeed sitting on the pad. (In the middle where the weight is anyways. When I'm in it it does a much better job of staying up tight against me than the tent and sleeping bags.)

http://i.imgur.com/mDf0J2pl.jpg

If you're really worried about it staying tight, you could pull up the shockcord and loop it over your ridgeline with a biner. I've never had to do this, but I took a picture so that you can see how that would work.

http://i.imgur.com/JjSFT5Fl.jpg

I really don't know if I'm doing any of this right. When I received the UQP I played around with it and tried it a couple different ways and this is what works best from what I've tried. It doesn't add any warmth, but it does keep those cold drafts off your butt which makes you feel warmer.

At the end of the day it's really just a sheet of plastic that hangs under your hammock and keeps the wind and rain out. I don't think there's too much to go right or wrong with it. From what I've read after you get some experience with your tarp setup most people can manage to stay dry through most rains. To me, this is a set of training wheels so that I don't screw up my $300 underquilt while I'm learning how to do this whole hammock thing. It also allowed me to try out hammocking and make sure I like it before investing in an underquilt. If you look at it like that it really is a no brainer.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions. I feel like I'm piecing out information, but I'm trying to be as forthcoming as I can and telling you everything as I think of it.

[Cory Hess]

Here's a picture of the pad in the Chameleon so you can get an idea of how big it is. A regular length/width pad wouldn't have to bend as much to get into the UQP and I think would work better than mine does.

http://i.imgur.com/tX7FIs5l.jpg

[2Questions]

Cory Hess,
It looks like it must work better with that thickness pad to have the shock cord ends further down the hammock instead of attached to the end areas of the hammock? The standard way to attach the UQP is to attach the shock cord ends to the same area where the UQ would attach. It does make sense that it would "square" the ends of the UQP to hold a 3.5" pad better.
Am I thinking/seeing this correct?
Donna

[Cory Hess]

My thinking was that with the length and width of my pad I wanted to get the ends as squared off as possible. You can see how the pad still pushes out at the corners. Of course, this all changes as soon as I lay in it. I'll be out hanging this weekend and try it without using the quilt hooks and see how that works. I honestly don't remember. When I first got the UQP I tried attaching it a bunch of different ways just out of curiosity and this is the one I ended up going with. I'll experiment this weekend and report back.

[Cory Hess]

So, I received a SLD Tree Runner today and wanted to throw it up and play around with it. I figured I'd play around with the UQP and pad while I was at it. The SLD does not have quilt hooks, so the UQP is hooked on only at the whoopie hooks. As soon as I had the pad in I remembered why I was using the quilt hooks. On my particular pad, hooking the UQP only to the hammock suspension causes the UQP to gather at the ends just like a hammock, as you would expect. This causes the pad to kind of fold, or more accurately bend, in order to fit into the UQP. My goal is to keep the pad as flat as possible and as snug to the hammock as possible until it conforms to my body weight. The quilt hooks widen the ends out enough to help with this.

I suspect that this is an issue that's borne from the large dimensions of my pad along with it's thickness. However, I'm no expert in this. I'm just a beginner to the hammock game. If I were choosing a pad specifically for hammocking I'd go with a smaller pad. However, I prefer an underquilt to a pad in any configuration so I don't expect to have to worry about this again any time soon.

[bigbenny]

UQs and UQPs are both made with the same types of fabric. It is much easier to wash an UQP than it is to wash a UQ. So...protecting your investment in a UQ is why the UQP came to be. The UQP doesn't add warmth...it helps to keep the warmth your body generates in the UQ...thus creating a warmer sleeping environment. This is why it is important to have the UQP breathable to avoid condensation issues.
Donna

Ah that makes sense. Oh, it doesn't add warmth but it helps trap warmth so you can be comfortable at lower temperatures, semantics I guess. Thanks for the explanation as to why UQP exist.

[bigbenny]

Here are some quick pictures of my Chameleon with the UQP and my pad. The pad is the long and wide version, so it's dimensions are 24x77x3.5. If you were to use a standard 20x72 pad I think it would work even better, but this is what I have from tent camping. I always feel like I'm falling off of a 20" pad when I'm sleeping on the ground.

I tried to do my best to add weight so that you can see how the UQP works with a loaded hammock. It doesn't do a great job, but you can get the idea.

To hang the UQP I put the end shockcord through my whoopie hooks, and I would think you could do the same with beetle buckles if you use those. I then run the shockcord through the first set of quilt hooks. This helps it spread out on the ends.

Then I put my pad in and hop in and cinch the sides up until I'm making contact with the pad. I tried to shoot a picture from inside to show that the hammock is indeed sitting on the pad. (In the middle where the weight is anyways. When I'm in it it does a much better job of staying up tight against me than the tent and sleeping bags.)


Thanks heaps for the pictures, it really helps me to understand how this will work. And thanks for the dimensions. IIUC having a wider pad is better as it will wrap around and keep your shoulders warm. It's why people the Sleeping Pad Extenders (SPEs) were invented. When you hop in the hammock do you feel the pad wrap around you (come up the sides a bit)? Do you find it keeps you warm or do you get cold sides/shoulders etc.?



If you're really worried about it staying tight, you could pull up the shockcord and loop it over your ridgeline with a biner. I've never had to do this, but I took a picture so that you can see how that would work.

I really don't know if I'm doing any of this right. When I received the UQP I played around with it and tried it a couple different ways and this is what works best from what I've tried. It doesn't add any warmth, but it does keep those cold drafts off your butt which makes you feel warmer.

At the end of the day it's really just a sheet of plastic that hangs under your hammock and keeps the wind and rain out. I don't think there's too much to go right or wrong with it. From what I've read after you get some experience with your tarp setup most people can manage to stay dry through most rains. To me, this is a set of training wheels so that I don't screw up my $300 underquilt while I'm learning how to do this whole hammock thing. It also allowed me to try out hammocking and make sure I like it before investing in an underquilt. If you look at it like that it really is a no brainer.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions. I feel like I'm piecing out information, but I'm trying to be as forthcoming as I can and telling you everything as I think of it.

Sounds like a good idea to me regarding the shockcord to the ridgeline, and thanks for the picture to make it clear exactly what you were suggesting.

I am of the (relatively uneducated) opinion of better to take the UQP, then not, especially if weather could be bad, to get the wind and water resistance. You are being very forthcoming, and it's far more than I expected. This helps heaps, I'm really appreciate the effort you have gone to help me.

[bigbenny]

Thanks you both the further discussion/info regarding the hows and whys of the hanging the UQP. I currently have a thin thermarest and plan to buy a 3.5" pad for camping in snow and want to use it in the hammock for insulation.

[Two Tents]

My 2¢. I was a tester way back. It took a bunch of trial & error, getting in and out of the hammock getting things dialed in using the uqp to hold things in place. In short I found if using an inflatable pad it preformed the best when it was under inflated. Closed cell foam works the best in my opinion but you need adjust the uqp so it is almost like its a double layer for the bottom of the hammock. Of all the pads ( Klymit, Neoair, Thermarest, Big Agnes and multiple adjustments & various tries the best I had good success with was the thinlite one from Gossamer Gear. Then I sealed the deal by upgrading to the wide one they offer for hammocks. That combo pad and uqp is what I use when I carry this particular set up. Recap... Inflatable gets way under inflated for best performance and closed cell foam needs have the uqp suspension fairly snug so you get the foam to follow your body contours in the loaded hammock. Both require a little time and effort to dial in. Now, after a bunch of nights use, I can tell by looking at it if its good for the matt I'm using. I can adjust from the hammock if I get it close. Hope this clarifies some. Peace, Two Tents & ben

[bigbenny]

My 2¢. I was a tester way back. It took a bunch of trial & error, getting in and out of the hammock getting things dialed in using the uqp to hold things in place. In short I found if using an inflatable pad it preformed the best when it was under inflated. Closed cell foam works the best in my opinion but you need adjust the uqp so it is almost like its a double layer for the bottom of the hammock. Of all the pads ( Klymit, Neoair, Thermarest, Big Agnes and multiple adjustments & various tries the best I had good success with was the thinlite one from Gossamer Gear. Then I sealed the deal by upgrading to the wide one they offer for hammocks. That combo pad and uqp is what I use when I carry this particular set up. Recap... Inflatable gets way under inflated for best performance and closed cell foam needs have the uqp suspension fairly snug so you get the foam to follow your body contours in the loaded hammock. Both require a little time and effort to dial in. Now, after a bunch of nights use, I can tell by looking at it if its good for the matt I'm using. I can adjust from the hammock if I get it close. Hope this clarifies some. Peace, Two Tents & ben

Thanks for the info. Using the UQP as like a double-layer was my intention. Thanks for the tip of under-inflating the pad, and which pads you found worked best for you. From what you have said, it takes some time to get dialed in but after a while with practice you can do so quicker. This sounds fine to me. I will eventually get an UQ and use it when I know there should be no need to go to ground. When I know I'll need (or probably need) to go to ground I can take the matt. If I have to fiddle with and take a bit of time to setup that's a fair trade-off IMO for the go-to-ground capability.